WTC Challenge

Originally posted by billybob
okay, you're just supposed to agree with me, catherder. the grid is not accurate. the perspective is off. you need to find the vanishing points to accurately draw the floors. just admit it. it's no big deal to be a little bit wrong once in a while.

Look at the photos yourself. I matched the floors extremly close. I followed the start of floor X(left) to the leftmost point of floor X, I then followed the start of floor X(right) to the rightmost point of floor X. Feel free to do the same thing for yourself with the original photos... The floors line up pretty darn accurately.

Originally posted by Sauron
Jose Sanchez, while working in a sub-level 4 workshop of the north tower on 9/11, heard a bomb-like explosion, had his hair burned and rescued a co-worker who had his leg and knee broken from the basement blast...

Originally posted by svenglezz
Pipe noises....

I'm sorry, no disrespect intended, but that is frikkin hilarious!!

[edit on 2005-7-12 by wecomeinpeace]

Originally posted by TheShroudOfMemphis


Of course, if that was air pushing out the windows from the levels 'pancaking', it would be happening at a position in which the levels had collapsed onto the next, forcing the air out at that level, not at a level that hasn't been reached yet.


[edit on 12-7-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]

For air to blow out that violently through untouched windows it would have to be highly compressed. I'm not sure how compressed we're talking, but those windows were pretty tough for the high winds at that altitude, and the increase in air pressure of a few levels packed into one level in a few seconds wouldn't do anything to the windows.

The floors were not pancacking in big, homogenous pieces anyway. Cracks that allowed air to rush up through them would inevitably be created, and air will always take the path of least resistance.

For me, the idea of compressed air blowing out windows as the building falls is not realistic.

it's not that crazy.....Steam will Kill you that's why you need Engineers ON SITE to supurvice the system...esp. that size of Buidlings....and there is "A LOT" of electrical juice in that building...just imagine the power flowing thru' that place...prob. feed a small City, and it does not mix well with water

But again if you have some experience in the mechanical and electrical field you would understand this.......so please if you start getting the engineers, people that work with the system saying this then I'd start to look more...but the Janitor to explain a large noice (explosion) ...no effence they are very important people (always miss em' when they are sick for a day...not like the VP's)...that's like asking my Mom what happened....she'd tell y'a it was a nuke or something lol

Y'r Canadian friend,
Sven

Ok the windows would be set for the outside winds not winds "inside" going out......one time a lawyer in Toronto...would show the new interns how stronge the windows w'r he'd take a run at em' and bang against the window...well guess what one time....he went thru' the window and fell 100 floors down to the pavement....the windows are "bent" into the frame and bend/flex....so I can def. see the force pushing the window out....but that's me

Y'r Canadian friend,
Sven

Anomalies 101

1. Bush's reaction
2. Insider trading
3. "Pull-It" quote
4. People heard bombs
5. Fire not hot enough
6. Free fall towers
7. Penta-lawn
8. Beltway witnesses hearing "whoosh"
9. Pentagon Line photo
10. Small fires in WTC 7
11. "Missle" slips by Rumsfield
12. Bush security work towers
13. Power outages week prior
14. GPS tracking of metal
15. Quick disposal of evidence, er metal
16. Whitewash of 9/11 probe
17. Refusal to release all video evidence
18. NORAD stand down
19. Saudi flights out of country
20. Hijackers found alive in Egypt
21. Unburned passports
22. Extremist Muslims going to strip club
23. Bad pilots - skilled execution
24. Instant Messages warning of attacks
25. Normal Tuesday 40 - 50,000 > only 3,000 killed
26. Roof door locked
27. Firefighter report only a few fires
28. Second tower hit falls first



Ok, can someone help out here? I just want a list I can copy and paste next time someone wonders why we would ever think it was an inside job. Or why we would ever question a report such as the one referenced in this thread.

EDIT: I can't spell.

[edit on 7-12-2005 by ShadowHasNoSource]

Anomolies 101

1. Bush's reaction (what's that got 2 do with it)
2. Insider trading (again stretching it)
3. "Pull-It" quote ( that was WTC no. 7 not 1 and 2)
4. People heard bombs (my Mom would'a said a nuke went off)
5. Fire not hot enough (what fire is not hot..plus Planes remember)
6. Free fall towers (free fall...fell from the Top down...not like TNT)
7. Penta-lawn (what's the lawn thousands of miles away got to do with it)
8. Beltway witnesses hearing"whoosh"(uhm..."whoosh" prob.my Moms sister)
9. Pentagon Line photo (again not the WTC buildings wrong thread)
10. Small fires in WTC 7 (duh...fires all over plus...lot of M&E stuff)
11. "Missle" slips by Rumsfield (ok that's not the WTC they def. shot it)
12. Bush security work towers (Oh y'a Bush was there..more reason to hit it)
13. Power outages week prior (Uhm....got to Mexico..power out...daily)
14. GPS tracking of metal (GPS tracking...omg...never hear that before)
15. Quick disposal of evidence, er metal (You know Chinese they want in a hurry...they don' mess around....lol...what they gon'a do with it...re build it..image laying it all out making a study....to fing out...yup they fell due to the planes)
16. Whitewash of 9/11 probe (duh again...why would y'a)
17. Refusal to release all video evidence (why would they...plus would prob. help d'a terrorist...why give em everything)
18. NORAD stand down (They did not have time to stop it)
19. Saudi flights out of country (duh...would you stay)
20. Hijackers found alive in Egypt ( found a couple...good CIA work NOT)
21. Unburned passports (you can always get copies)
22. Extremist Muslims going to strip club (sure why not they sin also)
23. Bad pilots - skilled execution (who say they bad....plus BF2 I can fly a fighter get
24. Instant Messages warning of attacks (what was the exact "text")
25. Normal Tuesday 40 - 50,000 > only 3,000 killed (many got out)
26. Roof door locked (that's just good Bush security)
27. Firefighter report only a few fires (uhmm...look at the video agian)
28. Second tower hit falls first (funny how things work some times)

Just thought you may want to add the other side of it.

Y'r Canadian friend,
Sven

PS plus I'm gon'a prase when I see fit.....no matter who's side of the team...if you produce something that good..me'z be the first to say so...and if it's bad....well then I just laugh...and try t'a help.

Originally posted by ShadowHasNoSource

Ok, can someone help out here?

Don't know how to word it to match your short phrase lines, but -

(1) The apparent exposion exiting the length of the floor of one (both?) of the towers, but several (apx 11) floors below the actual collapsing action.

Photo for clarity of above

(2) The woman and man standing in the opening of the jet entrance - anomolie = intense heat drops building, but people not only alive but apparantly unscarred to any visable notice (ie: clothes intact, not burned).

I think of more I'll post, or just U2U ya, like this idea

Misfit

Svenglezz, this is off topic, but I just have to ask...

Do you by chance have any relation to Jar Jar Binx?

Ok now y'r name calling...just show's y'r true character coming thru'

But I will not go to that level sorry....just trying to add my experience of dealing with building (been doing this stuff....since I was a kid) and have met many people in the industry that feel the same as me...the planes took em' down c/w fire to suit....and I notice people on this board are trying to show what happend and when they supply "good" pictures etc. "other" people try to knock em' down...and that's real low....almost as low as name calling...but the point stands with me ....show real proof ....not someones say so...or guessing what happend...and we must always remember....things may happen in the building/structure that know one can see....since this has never happend before and we don't know all the factors that the building was going thru. esp. with planes crashing into it...and not knowing the extent of the damage.

Y'r (building experienced) Canadian freind,
Sven

Oh...y'a....plus we have the Tallest Freestanding Structure in the World ....so us Canadians no a bit of High Rise Buildings

Originally posted by svenglezz
Ok now y'r name calling...just show's y'r true character coming thru'

But I will not go to that level sorry....and that's real low....almost as low as name calling...

Name-calling? Who called you a name? The question was a light-hearted joke in reference to your rather eccentric and deliberate typing style, especially lines like, "me'z be the first to say so...and if it's bad....well then I just laugh...and try t'a help" which bears an uncanny resemblance to the speech style of Jar Jar, one of my favorite Star Wars characters.

However, the fact that you have over-reacted and jumped just a little too soon at any opportunity to claim you are being insulted says more about the motives behind your typing style than anything else. One can only conclude from this that your smarmy, superior attitude and posting style is intentionally designed to abrade and provoke; a most ignoble tactic and a sign of one who seeks to manipulate reactions rather than seek the truth of a matter.

[edit on 2005-7-13 by wecomeinpeace]

Sorry, I just had to reply to this....LOL

Originally posted by svenglezz

1. Bush's reaction (what's that got 2 do with it)
If you think mr bushes reaction was normal, then I can now understand why you have fell for the lies so hard.
2. Insider trading (again stretching it)
www.hereinreality.com...
Stretching what? A few peoples bank accounts?
3. "Pull-It" quote ( that was WTC no. 7 not 1 and 2)
So what? It's even stranger that WTC 7 fell than the other two. So how does your theory of the planes impact causing the collapse work with building 7? Still waiting for an answer to that one.
4. People heard bombs (my Mom would'a said a nuke went off)
Just because your mom is prone to exaggeration it doesn't mean what people heard was not bombs going off.
5. Fire not hot enough (what fire is not hot..plus Planes remember)
It's already been explained over and over that the jet fuel would have burned for a very short time, in fact the initial explosion was probably the jet fuel igniting leaving very little fuel left to burn. The remaining fires were not hot fires, black smoke remember?
6. Free fall towers (free fall...fell from the Top down...not like TNT)
Exactly they fell from the top down, where did the planes hit? Why did the building collapse starting at the top when the top was not damaged?
7. Penta-lawn (what's the lawn thousands of miles away got to do with it)
It's all part of the 9-11 conspiracy and thus relevant.
8. Beltway witnesses hearing"whoosh"(uhm..."whoosh" prob.my Moms sister)
How old are you?
9. Pentagon Line photo (again not the WTC buildings wrong thread)
Hmmmm see #7
10. Small fires in WTC 7 (duh...fires all over plus...lot of M&E stuff)
So what? Raging fires on every floor would still not cause a building to collapse pancake style. This is where your argument falls apart...
When we say fies would not do it, you say well it's a combination of fires and the planes hitting. So even if 1&2 were bought down like you say, then there would still be a huge question mark over building 7. What was that? A combination of fire and sympathy for it's bigger neighbours?
11. "Missle" slips by Rumsfield (ok that's not the WTC they def. shot it)
?
12. Bush security work towers (Oh y'a Bush was there..more reason to hit it)
What? This is starting to get silly, oh wait... what do I mean starting?
13. Power outages week prior (Uhm....got to Mexico..power out...daily)
See #12
14. GPS tracking of metal (GPS tracking...omg...never hear that before)
See #13
15. Quick disposal of evidence, er metal (You know Chinese they want in a hurry...they don' mess around....lol...what they gon'a do with it...re build it..image laying it all out making a study....to fing out...yup they fell due to the planes)
See #14
16. Whitewash of 9/11 probe (duh again...why would y'a)
So why would ya? Are you drunk?...LOL See #15
17. Refusal to release all video evidence (why would they...plus would prob. help d'a terrorist...why give em everything)
Wow this is getting too hard, I have to figure out what the hell you're saying before I can think of a reply. My head is starting to hurt.
18. NORAD stand down (They did not have time to stop it)
Why did they start it? You really thought about this uh?
19. Saudi flights out of country (duh...would you stay)
www.ariannaonline.com...
Hope that helps with the point
20. Hijackers found alive in Egypt ( found a couple...good CIA work NOT)
Hmmmm see #16. C'mon this is getting boring.
21. Unburned passports (you can always get copies)
What?
22. Extremist Muslims going to strip club (sure why not they sin also)
Then they are not Muslims. So why are we still blaming Muslims?
True Muslims just like true Christians don't sin. If they do sin and still call themselves Muslim or Christian, then they are deluding themselves and causing a huge disservice to the real spiritual people on this planet.
23. Bad pilots - skilled execution (who say they bad....plus BF2 I can fly a fighter get

I hope you were joking with this one?
The people who supposedly flew these planes barely got through basic flight school.
24. Instant Messages warning of attacks (what was the exact "text")
"Instant messages warning of 9-11 attacks" Put that in a Google search...
And get educated before you waste any more of our time. This is not a joke.
25. Normal Tuesday 40 - 50,000 > only 3,000 killed (many got out)
Between 16,400 and 18,800 were in the building when the attack happend. Still easily 20,000 to 30,000 low. I wonder who they were?
en.wikipedia.org...
26. Roof door locked (that's just good Bush security)
www.freerepublic.com...
The roof is a fire escape, city buildings do not lock their roof access.
27. Firefighter report only a few fires (uhmm...look at the video agian)
So the firefighter was lying? A video can be very misleading.
28. Second tower hit falls first (funny how things work some times)
Yeah ain't that the truth?

Wow what a waste of time that was...

[edit on 13/7/2005 by ANOK]

Originally posted by ANOK
Sorry, I just had to reply to this....LOL

Originally posted by svenglezz

Wow what a waste of time that was...

[edit on 13/7/2005 by ANOK]

you deserve this

You have voted ANOK for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

Here's a list of smoking guns I've been compiling as I go. Copied and pasted here in no particular order, and may be repeats of some of ShadowHasNoSource's.

* Silverstein's record insurance policy taken out months before the events.
* Silverstein's "Pull it" comment.
* Silverstein's buildings collapsed but other, closer, worse-damaged buildings didn't.
* NORAD stand-down.
* 9-11 Commission Report - "Does the order still stand, Sir?"
* Drills done on that day mimicing the exact events.
* Cheney in charge of NORAD all of a sudden, when it used to be generals.
* FAA ordered 9-11 air traffic control tapes shredded.
* Bush Snr. meeting with heads of Bin Laden family on the day.
* CIA agents meeting with Osama Bin Laden weeks before the events.
* FEMA arrived at WTC complex on Sept 10th.
* Marvin Bush's security company removed the bomb sniffing dogs from the complex the weekend before 9-11
* FBI/CIA/ prior knowledge.
* FBI agents ordered to back off Bin Laden and al Qaeda by Bush himself.
* Other countries warning US government.
* People in government receiving warnings not to fly that day.
* GWB sitting in the school not whisked away by the SS.
* The look on GWB's face when he was informed, as if he could barely contain his smile.
* GWB stating that he watched the first plane hit the towers on a television, when there was no footage of the first plane taken by any mainstream media.
* The FBI confiscating and never releasing the video surveillance tapes from the gas station across the road from the Pentagon.
* The Pentagon only released 5 frames from one video camera at the Pentagon, and it was the wrong date.
* Donald Rumsfeld stating a missile hit the Pentagon.
* WTC elite and Israelis warned not to go into work that day.
* The dancing Israeli MOSSAD agents.
* FBI whistleblowers testimony scrapped from the 9-11 commission report.
* John P. O'neil, deputy director of FBI resigned because Bush signed W199I (BBC has copy) restricting investigation into Al Qaeda. (look for ananova website, JudicialWatch 2002-11-14
* Later J.P. O'Neil was head of security at 9-11, first day on the job. He died in the collapse. Marvin Bush was head of security before that.
* Oct 24, 2001 AP article. Bush and cabinet were on Cipro (anthrax vaccine) three and a half weeks before it popped up.
* The Anthrax was sent from Fort Detrick, Maryland US weapons lab.
* Flight 93 debris spread over miles.
* Flight 93 "crash site" was just a steaming hole in the ground. No wreckage.
* Witnesses testified to white military planes flying low and unusually quiet just before Flight 93 "crashed".
* Man put in charge of the 9-11 commission report was Henry Kissinger. The fox guarding the henhouse.
* PNAC document calling for "a new Pearl Harbour"
* The deafening mainstream media silence regarding the suspicious circumstances surrounding the 9-11 events, as opposed to the world independent media that is positively screaming about it.
* Halliburton oil pipelines through Afghanistan.
* No steel framed buildings ever collapsed from fire before, and hasn't since.
* Potential energy contained in the towers was not enough to produce their collapse, pulverization of the concrete, size of the dust cloud and speed of the dust cloud's expansion without the influence of forces other than gravity.
* Evidence sent to China before any investigation could be carried out.
* The architect of the towers said the buildings were designed to take multiple hits from 707 jet liners.
* Explosions squibs coming out of the buildings far below the collapse.
* Huge chunks of metal debris ejected hundreds of feet sideways from the towers.
* 36 foot steel beams snapped into 12 foot pieces.
* Even if truss pancake theory were true, steel cores should have stood.
* Buildings pancaked down to the very ground in virtual free fall.
* Building 7 fell straight down into it's own foot in textbook controlled demolition.
* The chance that both buildings would collapse. Probability says one of them would have stood, or collapsed in a slightly different manner.
* Building 7, one of the most over-engineered buildings in the world collapsed from an 8 hour fire on a couple of floors.
* Pools of melted steel under the wreckage.
* Hijackers alive in Saudi Arabia.
* Hijackers managed to successfully hijack four planes with box-cutters.
* Hijackers failed all their flight tests miserably. They couldn't fly a paper plane.
* Hijackers made maneuvers in the planes that a veteran pilot couldn't pull off, and were outside the limits of the airplane's G-force limiting software.
* Cell phones don't work at 30,000 feet.
* Bad acting on the "cell phone calls".
* One cell-phone caller spent the last 30 minutes of his life chatting with government officials.
* Giuliani's EM headquarters were in WTC7 with a perfect view of the towers, and then it collapses.
* Ridiculous theories of holographic planes deliberately injected into the truth movement as credibility-destroying disinformation.
* Somehow a passport of one of the hijackers survived the explosion, and yet we're expected to believe the resulting fires brought the buildings down.
* Firefighters reported bombs in the buildings.
* Janitors reported explosions in the basement.
* Seismic record shows spikes inconsistent with collapse.
* Firefighters tapes were suppressed and later released.
* The magical dissappearing Pentagon wreckage.
* What was under that blue tarpolin?
* Fake Bin Laden video. It wasn't him...didn't even look like him.
* US$100,000 wired to Atta by a Pakistani General who met with the CIA on Sep 10.
* Sept 10th Satellite pics of Pentagon show white markings on the lawn exactly along the "plane" path.
* Witnesses saw a C-130 over the Pentagon.

The last round was hilarious, ANOK. Have fun with these ones, guys.

[edit on 2005-7-13 by wecomeinpeace]

* Hijackers managed to successfully hijack four planes with box-cutters.
Prior to 9/11 there were very few air marshalls, and flight crews were trained to go along with the hijackers and give them what they wanted. Box cutters were perfectly legal to carry on an airplane. ANY knife under four inches of length were allowed in the cabin on an airplane.

* Witnesses saw a C-130 over the Pentagon.
ATC asked the C-130 to try to identify the 757 as the missing UA flight but they were unable to overtake it before it hit the Pentagon. The C-130 has a lower top speed than the 757. They attempted to overtake and get a visual, but were unable to until just before impact, then they circled to report what they saw.

"At 9.36 the national airport instructs a military C130 (Golfer 06) that has just departed Andrews air force base to intercept the flight and identify it. At 9.38 AA77 crashes into the south-west side of the Pentagon"

[edit on 13-7-2005 by Zaphod58]

Originally posted by Zaphod58
* Hijackers managed to successfully hijack four planes with box-cutters.
Prior to 9/11 there were very few air marshalls, and flight crews were trained to go along with the hijackers and give them what they wanted. Box cutters were perfectly legal to carry on an airplane. ANY knife under four inches of length were allowed in the cabin on an airplane.

19 hijackers. 5 per plane. I reckon I could have taken at least 2 of them, and I weigh 170lbs. However, we're talking about a plane load of passengers. How much does a plane load of passengers weigh?

Originally posted by wecomeinpeace

Originally posted by Zaphod58
* Hijackers managed to successfully hijack four planes with box-cutters.
Prior to 9/11 there were very few air marshalls, and flight crews were trained to go along with the hijackers and give them what they wanted. Box cutters were perfectly legal to carry on an airplane. ANY knife under four inches of length were allowed in the cabin on an airplane.

19 hijackers. 5 per plane. I reckon I could have taken at least 2 of them, and I weigh 170lbs. However, we're talking about a plane load of passengers. How much does a plane load of passengers weigh?

There were very initial reports that a hijacker shot the person next to him and then told the plane full of people that anyone trying to stop them will be shot also.

This was only reported in the AM on 9/11, by the afternoon there were no mentions of guns again.

While it might not be true, i can imagine why they wouldn't want to go with a fact like the terrorists having guns because that would open up a whole other can of worms for airport security.

They only need the airports to look incompetent, not involved by planting weapons or allowing gun holders onto a plan but Bush's brother ran security for Dulles airport and United Airlines and some of the hijackers were taken aside and privately 'questioned' before being allowed to board.

Anything is possible. Would you try to jump a hijacker that had just shot someone and told the people on board that they would be landing soon?
A gun is a bit different than a small blade that couldn't harm you that much even if they did cut you with it. Anyone with a sweater on would have enough 'armor' to deter a box-cutter blade and considering it was early morning, there were probably a lot of people that could be swiped at multiple times before the blade would even come close to reaching skin.




[edit on 13-7-2005 by TheShroudOfMemphis]

Passengers and crew were conditioned prior to 9/11. If you are hijacked, they will land somewhere and eventually let you go. That happened in 99.9% of hijackings before 9/11. With the exception of I think three or four (I think. It might be lower than that.) hijackings where the plane crashed for reasons unknown EVERY SINGLE HIJACKED PLANE was landed at an airfield somewhere and demands were made. This was going from when the first hijacking was performed back in the early 1970s. That's why flight crews were ALWAYS trained that when there was a hijacking, go along with the hijackers, and keep the passengers quiet, until you land somewhere and know what their demands are. And THEN you try to TALK the hijackers into letting people go, you don't EVER fight against a hijacking.

"While it might not be true, i can imagine why they wouldn't want to go with a fact like the terrorists having guns because that would open up a whole other can of worms for airport security."

First off, airport security wasn't the problem. The AIRLINES were responsible for security at the time and they weren't willing to pay for extra equipment, or more than minimum wage in all but one or two cities where the screeners were able to unionize and demand higher pay. The AIRLINES bought the equipment from an approved list put out by the FAA, and paid for any maintenance contracts, and paid the screeners, etc.

"A gun is a bit different than a small blade that couldn't harm you that much even if they did cut you with it."

Yeah a gun is, but a razor blade will cut a persons throat just as well as a knife will, and all the reports I have heard about 9/11 say that's exactly what happened. One pilot, and passenger for sure were killed by having their throats cut. Another thing to remember are the reports that they had boxes they claimed were bombs strapped to them. If you hear someone has a bomb on a plane, you're not gonna jump them. You're gonna wait until you land and know what they want, and MAYBE jump them on the ground IF the opportunity presents itself, or wait until either they negotiate you free, or send in someone to storm the plane and rescue you.

All this discussion of hijackers would be interesting if they had actually been on the planes.

Words to make this not a one-line post: Cheney, Rumsfeld, electric chair, happy