Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
Hasnt it ever occured to you that maybe, just maybe some of the illuminati/masons in that circle have turned states evidence, and confided in special agents what is going on? Yea, thats right, some masons turned out to be good after all.

Turned over evidence of WHAT? Talked about WHAT? They can say anything they want, there's nothing to talk ABOUT. What the hell are you talking about?? What do you think goes on in lodge?!?

You're WAY out of it, kid...

Look guys cutting edge is a Fundamentalist Christian web site, they are also very paranoid in their search for the signs of the NWO and are stern believers in Futurism. By your own admission Freemasonry contains pieces of Paganism and White Magic at the least in its rituals and symbols. You are never going to get a Christian organization to agree that Cabala, Hermeticism, or Gnosticism are acceptable to the path a Christian should be walking down. In a way they are right, these symbols and rituals obviously have occult power to them or they would not be similarly used by members of other more sinister occult religions.

[edit on 6/25/2005 by defcon5]

Oh my Lord here we go again. Another "your all a bunch of devil worshiping fools" with the standard "go do your homework and return" responses.

I don't know that anyone has admitted anything of the sort defcon5. Symbols can have several different meanings. YOU are the one that chooses what that particular symbol means to you or what you choose to think about when you see that particular symbol. As far as Paganism, modern day Christianity and Catholicism have embedded many Pagan rituals and symbols themselves. The modern day Church is a loooooong way from where Christ envisioned it to be or in other words, many of the modern day Christians aren't Christians but merely Pharisaical morons claiming to be something they aren't.

Do you allow your children to dress up and go "trick or treating" on Halloween? Do you realize that Halloween is perhaps one of the most obvious of the Satanic holidays? Think about that as you cut out the evil face in the pumpkin and dress your children up as goblins. What about Christmas? Have you researched Christmas? You claim to be celebrating the birth of the Christ child but most scholars agree he wasn't actually born until sometime in the spring. So why are we celebrating his birth in December you might ask. Well it just so happens there is a Pagan holiday around that time and the Christians of old needed an excuse to celebrate with the Pagans so now you have Christmas. Think about that as you decorate your tree and spend thousands on gifts.

I suggest before you all start pointing fingers and condemning everyone to hell you take a look at your own lifestyles and rituals that you celebrate.

Do you realize that Halloween is perhaps one of the most obvious of the Satanic holidays?

there is nothing Satanic about Halloween/ All Hallows eve/ Samhain, in the
first place " Satan" is the sole ( or soul if you prefer) possesion and creation of Xianity. Having nothing to do with Pagan beliefs.

In some traditions it is the eve of the celebration of rememberence of those who
have fallen in battle the previous year, similar to our current Veterans Day Celebrations.

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
there is nothing Satanic about Halloween/ All Hallows eve/ Samhain, in the
first place " Satan" is the sole ( or soul if you prefer) possesion and creation of Xianity. Having nothing to do with Pagan beliefs.

mrfixit is right! There's nothing satanic about it, but definitely ABSOLUTELY PAGAN. So should Christian kids and parents be celebrating Halloween???

Freemasons and their rituals are equivalent to Halloween. It doesn't matter what the rituals meant back then, only what they are and what they mean NOW to the persons performing them. Like mrfixit said: if you believe you are praying to a Christian God, you are. If you believe you are praying to satan, you are.

And if you're hypocritical enough to chastise Freemasons for their rituals, then you better fess up about celebrating Halloween.

Originally posted by umwolves123
why is it that Non-masons believe in this so called "inner circle" of freemasoner unknown to most freemasons.

I don't think that most non-Masons believe such a thing; in fact, most non-Masons support what we do. It's the anti-Masons that believe those kinds of things, and they believe such things because they tend to be generally naive and easily influenced by propaganda.

Originally posted by defcon5
Look guys cutting edge is a Fundamentalist Christian web site, they are also very paranoid in their search for the signs of the NWO and are stern believers in Futurism. By your own admission Freemasonry contains pieces of Paganism and White Magic at the least in its rituals and symbols. You are never going to get a Christian organization to agree that Cabala, Hermeticism, or Gnosticism are acceptable to the path a Christian should be walking down. In a way they are right, these symbols and rituals obviously have occult power to them or they would not be similarly used by members of other more sinister occult religions.

[edit on 6/25/2005 by defcon5]

for the most part i beleive i agree with you. the only question i have is that i'm not sure what futurism is. i've never heard of this before, can you explain it alittle?

Yadda, yadda, yadda.....et cetera, et cetera, et cetera....yeah, yeah, yeah...

so-on and so-on and so-on... hum de dum de dum...

they're evil...they're the anti-christ...they're socialists...they're pagans...they're devil worshipers...they're witches...they're the illuminati...they're world dominators...they're hell-bound....they're pawns....
they're uninformed...they're brainwashed....

Yadda, yadda, yadda...et cetera, et cetera, et cetera....

YAWWWWWWNNNNNNN

Originally posted by mrfixit
Do you realize that Halloween is perhaps one of the most obvious of the Satanic holidays?

LOL! Sorry fixit, but YOU obviously don't have any real knowledge of the traditional "feast days" of the historical Church, huh?

Research before you post...

NOTHING evil or "satanic" about All Hallow's Eve...the day before All Saints Day.


[edit on 25-6-2005 by senrak]

I feel that there probably is an invisible side to Freemasonry but know one is just going to come out and spill the beans. It certainly is made mention of a lot. Perhaps Necross is an invisible Mason and Masonic Light is Albert Pike reincarnated, hello Alby. I believe the invisibles to be either Co-Masonsry, the OTO or the Rosicrusians. One of the three or all of them.

Originally posted by TgSoe
I feel that there probably is an invisible side to Freemasonry but know one is just going to come out and spill the beans.

You're right, the invisible side of Freemasonry is the changes that occur to a person when he becomes a mason. Nobody is going to come out and mention it because it CAN'T be mentioned, it CAN'T be communicated to someone who hasn't EXPERIENCED it for himself. It's the unspoken bond between brothers that can only be created by being made a mason.

Notice how you only have this straunchly pro Masonic and anti Masonic side.
to truly undertsand it from an outsiders perspective, you cannot read a bunch of paranoid anti Masonic or pro Masonic writings.

Any sane, well read researcher will pretty much conclude what I have.
That any nefarious dealings sprung from Freemasonry have come from individuals(Truman, Jack the Ripper, etc) and not from the group as a whole body. Sadly, youll have Masons present this sequaky clean image, when presenting the whole image dispells the negative ideas. There have definately been some documented cases of murder and coverup by select Masons over the centuries...but think of how many countless people have been killed in the name of Catholicism or Islam or Christianity?

Also, people need to do their homework on their Illuminati history. While it may be true the Illuminati managed to influence various lodges in Europe,
it is not reflective as an overall poisoning. I think when people reference the Illuminati with government and conspiracy, they perhaps are referencing the ideals setforth by the Illuminati...and or mixing it with popular fiction.

Is there some pretty esoteric, perhaps pagan aspects to Masonry? Perhaps, but look at Catholicism. A great religion if thats what ya need, but by far just as removed from early Christian teachings as Western Christianity.

Finally, Masons really should distance themselves from the writings of Albert Pike and a few other noted Masons. Also, realize that because so many of America's founders(as in presidents, influential people, etc) and the construction(at least elements) came from Freemasonry people will draw conclusions, as they have for centuries.

As a footnote, the back of the dollar bill I still find intriguing, and how much of it really has origins in Masonic things(the 33 wing feathers, all seeing eye, eagle, etc)

Originally posted by 8bitagent
That any nefarious dealings sprung from Freemasonry have come from individuals(Truman, Jack the Ripper, etc) and not from the group as a whole body. Sadly, youll have Masons present this sequaky clean image, when presenting the whole image dispells the negative ideas.

We have ALWAYS said that, like ANY other organization, Freemasonry has had its fair share of bad apples and bad press. BUT, we always state, that does not make FREEMASONRY inherently bad or wrong in ANY way. Like you stated, we cannot control the behavior of individual Freemasons. But, overall we have done an incredibly good job throughout centuries of helping men become better citizens, family men and practicioners of their religion.

We have NEVER tried to present a squeaky-clean image of all Freemasons, but Freemasonry as an organization is not to blame for their actions.

And also, none of the primary Jack the Ripper suspects were Freemasons. That is a myth straight from a FICTION NOVEL. Just like the Illuminati. Sheesh, you guys really have a hard time telling fact from fiction...

realize that because so many of America's founders(as in presidents, influential people, etc) and the construction(at least elements) came from Freemasonry people will draw conclusions, as they have for centuries.

The conclusion they should be drawing is that those masons were men who take action to achieve and defend the freedoms that we take for granted... these very freedoms are MASONIC principles, derived from the knowledge and ideas that these men gained through Freemasonry.