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Reported: China Launched a Long-Range Nuclear-Capable Ballistic Missile From a Submarine

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posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by vor78
Nope, not much threat to a carrier task force. That's a job for a radar guided cruise missile.

Radar is not much worth if the missile has stealth capabilities.

Are you serious? Nukes not any threat to a carrier task force?




posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 10:13 PM
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do u think that china will threaten to do something??? or nuke some1??? or do u think that they will just be proud of themselves??



posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by russiankid
do u think that china will threaten to do something??? or nuke some1??? or do u think that they will just be proud of themselves??


its for defence. china only has 20 - 25 ICBMs in satioinary missile silos. china needs these for a deterence. if half of them is wiped out in a first strike then china doesn't have very much ICBMs to fire. if china has 2 of these SSBN then china will have a better surviablly deterence.



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 11:36 AM
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Well, if china does nuke a carrier battle group then it would be like a declearion of war and that wouldn't be good now would it...



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 12:49 PM
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If America attacks China with a nuke, it is also a declaration of war, in fact, if America gets into Taiwan that would also be a declaration of war. China is very sensitive to anything about Taiwan.



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by COWlan
If America attacks China with a nuke, it is also a declaration of war, in fact, if America gets into Taiwan that would also be a declaration of war. China is very sensitive to anything about Taiwan.


yea i know... why they want taiwan back that bad? even if they blow the small island to the stone age... does it really worth it for them to do it?



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by ulshadow
Well, if china does nuke a carrier battle group then it would be like a declearion of war and that wouldn't be good now would it...


but isn't america being there also a at of war. china will only go nuiclear when its attacked



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 05:45 PM
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Chinese Dragon Awakens

 China is building its military forces faster than U.S. intelligence and military analysts expected, prompting fears that Beijing will attack Taiwan in the next two years, according to Pentagon officials.

U.S. defense and intelligence officials say all the signs point in one troubling direction: Beijing then will be forced to go to war with the United States, which has vowed to defend Taiwan against a Chinese attack.


"We may be seeing in China the first true fascist society on the model of Nazi Germany, where you have this incredible resource base in a commercial economy with strong nationalism, which the military was able to reach into and ramp up incredible production,"

Part II focus on thefts of US weaponry boost China's weaponry.



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by COWlan
If America attacks China with a nuke, it is also a declaration of war, in fact, if America gets into Taiwan that would also be a declaration of war. China is very sensitive to anything about Taiwan.


The United States is not going to attack China with a nuke over Taiwan. Not going to happen. It's more likely that China will attack and invade Taiwan which will prompt the United States come to Taiwan's defense.



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by the_oleneo

Originally posted by COWlan
If America attacks China with a nuke, it is also a declaration of war, in fact, if America gets into Taiwan that would also be a declaration of war. China is very sensitive to anything about Taiwan.


The United States is not going to attack China with a nuke over Taiwan. Not going to happen. It's more likely that China will attack and invade Taiwan which will prompt the United States come to Taiwan's defense.


1996. china fired a missile did some sabre rattling and the US comes



posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by Hellmutt

Originally posted by vor78
Nope, not much threat to a carrier task force. That's a job for a radar guided cruise missile.

Radar is not much worth if the missile has stealth capabilities.

Are you serious? Nukes not any threat to a carrier task force?


Yes, I'm serious. Unless the it detonates within a reasonably close proximity (probably half-to-three quarters of a mile) a typical tactical nuclear weapon probably won't sink a medium/large modern warship. The Bikini Atoll tests in 1946 proved that even WW2-era ships have very good survivability even against what is more or less a direct hit from a nuclear blast (in fact, the vast majority survived both hits). Modern warships are designed with nuclear, biological and chemical attacks in mind and should prove even more resistant than their predecessors.

The overall task force is under little threat from a nuclear attack, simply because they maintain a formation separation to prevent all ships from taking damage in the event such an attack occurs. You might get one ship, maybe even two, but not all of them.

And yes, a radar guided missile is a much more effective choice than an ICBM to attack a fleet...by far. The radar guidance system will allow it to react much more effectively to evasive manuevers by the opposing fleet, making it much more likely that the warhead actually gets close enough to cause damage when it explodes. A late stage course adjustment for an ICBM is probably possible, but it will be a macro-level adjustment by the ground controllers and will not have the accuracy of a true active-seeking on-board guidance system. Also, considering the high, arcing trajectory of an ICBM, a fleet commander is going to have more time to react, further scatter his fleet (and at 30kts+, they can cover quite a bit of ground with even a few minutes warning), get the men off the decks, close the hatches and generally just get ready for what's coming. And considering that its not going to be manuevering, the ship's missile defense systems might even be able to destroy it or at least knock it off course.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 11:25 PM
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i guess that its for defence... but i think that they will bomb a carrier with 1 ov thos ICBM's... if a careier will get to them...



posted on Aug, 5 2005 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by vor78

Originally posted by Hellmutt

Originally posted by vor78
Nope, not much threat to a carrier task force. That's a job for a radar guided cruise missile.

Radar is not much worth if the missile has stealth capabilities.

yes, a radar guided missile is a much more effective choice than an ICBM to attack a fleet...by far.

What I meant was: what if the attacking missile is a stealth nuke missile? Then radar will be useless as it won´t see the attacking missile. We might have misunderstood each other here. But I still believe that nukes are a serious threat to any carrier task force. If the Bikini test "proved" that nukes are not a threat to ships, then I believe it is nonsense propaganda.



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 12:06 AM
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ICBMS are infact quite stealthy.. No electronics on board(INS) and only time they can be detected is in the boost phase..i.e. at launch..or maybe at re-entry due to the heat generated..
Other wise they're just that.. ballistic projectiles..

Also the JL-2 must have travelled a max of 4000km across China..
Wonder how they will be able to ever test the FULL range of the missile..
Maybe they tested this one at low fuel etc. etc.. and thus extrapolate the true full range..
But still chassis survivability is very important and only longe range tests can confirm that..
Have the US/Russia ever tested the true full range of these SLBMs/ICBMs??
I'm guessing mostly in the Arctic sea...Got a lot of space there..
The question is whether the chinese are going to alllow one of their precious SSBNs to go so far away from home..
The farthest on record I think was that Japanese incident right?



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite


but isn't america being there also a at of war. China will only go nuclear when its attacked


Well according to current chinese foreign policy I think china is only supposed to go nuclear when it has itself ALREADY become the victim of nuclear explosion(s)..
That is a "no first use policy"

As far as I know only China and India have that policy..
If they both stick to it then chances of a nuclear exchange are minimal



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 12:30 AM
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Yes, its amazing the amount of furor that has erupted over the Chinese general saying that China will retaliate with nuclear weapons by many Americans.

This considering that U.S doesn't actually have a "no first use" policy. I remember reading somewhere the U.S policy, its vague and inprocise and and would technically allow nuclear responses to some conventional attacks as well as chemical and biological attacks.



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 12:31 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by ulshadow
Well, if china does nuke a carrier battle group then it would be like a declearion of war and that wouldn't be good now would it...


but isn't america being there also a at of war. china will only go nuiclear when its attacked


Wrong answer, kimosabe. They have been building forces for the last 7 to 8 years to prepare to take Formosa, and when they strike, it is their intention to nuclearly strike U.S. bases at South Korea, Japan, and the naval forces at sea. This, they believe, will severely cripple America's ability to aid Taiwan, and from that advantage, will warn the U.S. of certain ICBM strikes on the U.S. mainland if they even try.

I doubt this strategy has changed as their build-up has surley not slowed down, and it is their best option if they are going to invade.



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 01:06 AM
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That why the ABM sheild is all the more imparitive. Remove that threat and Taiwan is defensable. However, I doubt that the US would allow the nuke'ing of its forces to go unanswered and may respond in kind.

The scenario you describe above is exactly why there is a push within Japan that is growing to develop thier own WMD as a deternece for any potential NK/Chinese agression.



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
years to prepare to take Formosa, and when they strike, it is their intention to nuclearly strike U.S. bases at South Korea, Japan, and the naval forces at sea.


That would lead to massive retaliation from the US. Furthermore, it would solidify American resolve to get involved in the conflict or stay in the conflict. Not a very wise strategy for China to take at the beginning of a war. Hence I don't think this is likely.

If Chinese nukes are used it would most likely be as a last resort if the mainland felt threatened or to nuke Taiwan itself.



posted on Aug, 6 2005 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by FredT
That why the ABM sheild is all the more imparitive. Remove that threat and Taiwan is defensable. However, I doubt that the US would allow the nuke'ing of its forces to go unanswered and may respond in kind.


This is interesting Fred, so by building the ABM, tell me what will stop the U.S from using nuclear weapons first?

Faith and a Chamberlain-esque document,

"No nukes for our time" - signed G W Bush.



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