WTC Hero janitor blows 'Official 9/11 Story' Sky High!

Boatphone, why would you call me crazy and say i make you any more sick then anyone else that posts things that may have happened leading to 911? did you even read the link i sent? Or are you just ignorant and because i mention the word "jewish" you automaticaly assume i am another jew hater or something)my last girlfriend was jewish). Stop being ignorant and read the link i sent. how is it any different then everyone else say that it was just the U.S. gov't. that may have been behind 911?
Get a clue. If our Gov't. did indeed know about the attacks before they were going to happen, you can be resy assured that the intelligence communities of Isreal and Great Britain knew so also...

Originally posted by GREGNOW
I heard in the 1st week right after the attacks is that a lot of jewish people that worked in the towers were warned by Isreal intelligence that the attack was going to happen.
globalfire.tv...

That has been reported

Odigo

Snip~
Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11 predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original sender of the message predicting the attack.
Link

Zionist Commando Daniel Lewin Orchestrated The 9-11 Terrorist Attacks
But not all of the eye-witnesses to the 9-11 slaughter were so saddened. On September 11, five Israeli army veterans were arrested by the FBI after several witnesses saw them “dancing”, “high-fiving” and “celebrating” as they took pictures of the World Trade Center disaster from across the river in New Jersey. …
When the photos [taken by the dancing Israelis] were developed, they revealed that the dancing Israelis were smiling in the foreground of the New York massacre. According to ABC’s 20/20 attempted whitewash of the incident, in addition to their outrageous and highly suspicious behavior, the five also has in their possession the following items: box-cutters, European passports, and $4700 in cash hidden in a sock. Why were these Israeli agents so happy about the horrible massacre unfolding before their very eyes? … Could it be that these happy Israeli army veterans were in some way linked to this monstrous attack? That’s what officials close to the investigation told the Bergen Record newspaper of New Jersey. …
THE SEPTEMBER 11 DANCE PARTY Link

Suspects `filmed New York atrocities'

Ariel Sharon, who was scheduled to give an address to Israeli support groups in New York City on September 11th, cancelled his plans the day before.
911research.wtc7.net...

Bombshell: Mossad sources admit 911 link

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Lets do some math,

Height of WTC: 1368 & 1362 say average of 1365

hit between 93 - 98 th floor

taking the lower of the two [93], 1365 * 93/110 = 1154 feet to ground [not including 5 or 8 floors of basements]

falling in gravity 32 feet per second per second

in the first and subsequent seconds it had fallen a total distance from start:
32, 96, 192, 320, 480, 672, 896, 1152.

So it would have taken a full 8 seconds for anything [and this does not include slowing for air friction, not sure what terminal velocity is] including jet fuel to travel that far.

one mississippi, two mississippi, three . . . , a full eight seconds after impact.

No one mentions this time lag in the explosion, in fact the janitor says the explosions happened before the impact by several seconds.

You might argue that the fuel ignighted on the way down accelerating it, if so how do you explain that intervening floors were virtually untouched but the lobby [and not the lowest basements] were what became smoked and sooted.

Lobby elevator doors are weaker than other floors including basements?

additionally in a closed tube [elevator shaft] the air, being confined is going to try to have to find an exit so it can be displaced by fuel or anything else slowing it further.

Much like trying to fill a narrow necked bottle from the faucet with water, you have to allow an escape for the air or the water will have difficulties/slowing getting into the bottle.

[edit on 24-6-2005 by slank]

good lord all this nonsense keeps getting rehashed to no end. The original idiotic story about the jews getting out of harms way was something along the lines of "no israelis died in the collaps"

plenty did. plenty of jews from all over the world died in the collapse. I can name a few as they were very close friends of mine.

here's something to look at. in the video (which I hadn't seen in a long long while as it is always too hard to watch) the collapse starts right at the plane impact floor. the top comes down and then it accordians downward from there. if there was an explosion at the base, I would expect the bottom to collapse as well.


also, if the lobby was all bombed out, how do you explain all the footage from inside the lobby? there's plenty of footage of the fire fighters heading in, setting up staging areas etc. if there was an explosion in the bottom of the building, the footage would show it and, more important, the fire department would not have used the INTERIOR of the building for the staging area.


While I do believe our gov't failed us on that day in that they didn't do enough in the years prior to the attack (yes I mean Clinton's administration along with Reagan and Bush 1 and 2), I find it hard to believe our own gov't did this. Even if they did have the ability and the intelligence to somehow plan this, even if they could somehow find a way to sneak all those explosives into a building that never closes down (international markets are open at all hours), even if they could get the timing as such that an explosion in the building was timed to near perfection with an airplane hitting the building (twice no less), they still wouldn't be able to cover it up. Too many people would have to be involved to pull it off. Someone, somewhere, would have had to say something to save his own soul. Hell, deep throat couldn't keep quiet about Nixon and his crimes here the equivalent of jay walking.

Sorry folks, nothing to see here.

Originally posted by Apoc
I remember the attack in 1993 where there was an explosion in the basement. There was no doubt what had happened. Many witnesses, obvious damage. It would seem to me that if there was an explosion in basement there would have been MANY witnesses and the damage would have been irefuteably observed and reported by more than just a janitor who thinks that's what he heard. Wouldn't there be audio logs by some means? more evidence? more witnesses? That being said, let's play devil's advocate, If there was some explosion in the basement, how does that correlate to a lawsuit against Bush?
It makes the guy just look like a partisan anti-Bu#e who would do or say anything to make him look bad.

Maybe because there was a plane crash in the WTC?

Seriously, think. Who would notice an underground explosion when an airliner just crashed into the WTC?

I think a lot of you are intentionally looking at only a few sides of the story without collecting everything together and making a judgment out of it.

First off, do any of you realize how big and high the WTC buildings really are? 90+ floors is VERY high. Now, add that to the witness testimony, which so many of your are completely intentionally ignoring simply because "you don't like it." If you're gonna say it's flaming jet fuel, then there's no reason for you to post in this thread because that would have little relevance to the witness' story, which was that there was an explosion BEFORE the planes hit. Explain, how did the aircraft cause the explosion before it even exploded into the tower?

I'm not even gonna address the "he wants money" excuse. I could easily say all of you post on ATS for money as well. That's how absurd the excuse is.

My point is, don't make conclusions until you've got a conclusion.

If he was in the basement, what proof can he possibly offer that these explosions occured before the planes hit?

OK well, if this is true, it leaves us with a few options:

A) The explosives were planted by terrorists? A definite possibility, no?
B) The super-evil government did this.

Well, we can take millions of peoples words or we can listen to the minority of a few thousand conspiracy theorists.

Now then, if ya'll don't want to be inconsistent, you better follow the majority, like everyone seems to do here. (IE the world hates the U.S. and opposes the U.S., therefore they are obviously correct )

-wD

Just a simple question here;

If one plows 400,000 pounds of airplane at 500mph into a 110 story steel tube anchored to the ground, if you will. Where does the energy go? What are the possible effects of that energy dissapation?

The mention in the article of concrete basement walls cracking is a clue.

Once one understands where the energy went and its possible effects then one has to wonder about ruptured steam lines or natural gas boiler feeds as a possible reason for the co-workers burns.

As far as having noticable effects in the basement just prior to the janitor hearing the impact explosion, energy travels much faster through steel and concrete than sound travels through the air.

Originally posted by Phoenix
Once one understands where the energy went and its possible effects then one has to wonder about ruptured steam lines or natural gas boiler feeds as a possible reason for the co-workers burns.

As far as having noticable effects in the basement just prior to the janitor hearing the impact explosion, energy travels much faster through steel and concrete than sound travels through the air.

The energy would travel down the structure as a compression wave, exactly the same as sound does. The transmission speed of the energy would be exactly the same as the speed of the sound it generates as they are travelling through the same medium in exactly the same way.

Basically, the effects would be felt at the same time as the sound was heard.

Originally posted by slank
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Lets do some math,

Height of WTC: 1368 & 1362 say average of 1365 . . .


blah, blah, blah . . .

additionally in a closed tube [elevator shaft] the air, being confined is going to try to have to find an exit so it can be displaced by fuel or anything else slowing it further.

Much like trying to fill a narrow necked bottle from the faucet with water, you have to allow an escape for the air or the water will have difficulties/slowing getting into the bottle.

[edit on 24-6-2005 by slank]

no, more like shooting off a shotgun (or a potato cannon).


From the Chief Engineer Magazine article:

Mike walked through the open doorway and found two people lying on the floor. One was a female Carpenter and the other an Elevator Operator. They were both badly burned and injured.[

I would assume that this was the freight elevator operator.

"When I walked out into the lobby, it was incredible," he recalled. "The whole lobby was soot and black, elevator doors were missing. The marble was missing off some of the walls. 20-foot section of marble, 20 by 10 foot sections of marble, gone from the walls". The west windows were all gone. They were missing. These are tremendous windows. They were just gone. Broken glass everywhere, the revolving doors were all broken and their glass was gone. Every sprinkler head was going off. I am thinking to myself, how are these sprinkler heads going off? It takes a lot of heat to set off a sprinkler head. It never dawned on me that there was a giant fireball that came through the air of the lobby. I never knew that until later on. The jet fuel actually came down the elevator shaft, blew off all the (elevator) doors and flames rolled through the lobby. That explained all the burnt people and why everything was sooted in the lobby."

From FIrehouse.com

We started going up the B stairway. As we got to the third floor of the B stairway, we forced open an elevator door which was burnt on all three sides. The only thing that was remaining was the hoistway door. And inside the elevator were about – I didn’t recognize them initially, but a guy from 1 Truck said oh my God, those are people. They were pretty incinerated. And I remember the overpowering smell of kerosene. That’s when Lieutenant Foti said oh, that’s the jet fuel. I remember it smelled like if you’re camping and you drop a kerosene lamp.

The same thing happened to the elevators in the main lobby. They were basically blown out. I don’t recall if I actually saw people in there.

What got me initially in the lobby was that as soon as we went in, all the windows were blown out, and there were one or two burning cars outside. And there were burn victims on the street there, walking around. We walked through this giant blown-out window into the lobby.

There was a lady there screaming that she didn’t know how she got burnt. She was just in the lobby and then next thing she knew she was on fire. She was burnt bad. And somebody came over with a fire extinguisher and was putting water on her.

That’s the first thing that got me. That and in front of one of the big elevator banks in the lobby was a desk and I definitely made out one of the corpses to be a security guard because he had a security label on his jacket. I’m assuming that maybe he was at a table still in a chair and almost completely incinerated, charred all over his body, definitely dead. And you could make out like a security tag on his jacket. And I remember seeing the table was melted, but he was still fused in the chair and that elevator bank was melted, so I imagine the jet fuel must have blown right down the elevator shaft and I guess caught the security guard at a table, I guess at some type of checkpoint.

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Howard hun,

I guess it was that special brand of jet fuel that seeks out the single freight elevator instead of the bank of elevators that went to the 77th floor sky lobby.

Or maybe the 93rd floor unlike all the rest had a funnel shape to the single freight elevator and an uphill ramp to the bank of elevators the sky lobby.
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Originally posted by Chris McGee

The energy would travel down the structure as a compression wave, exactly the same as sound does. The transmission speed of the energy would be exactly the same as the speed of the sound it generates as they are travelling through the same medium in exactly the same way.

Basically, the effects would be felt at the same time as the sound was heard.

Sorry CM but the compression (impact) wave through steel (columns) travels at several thousands of feet per second due to its high density as compared to air where sound travels at the comparatively slow speed of 600mph.

The energy would indeed transmit quickly to the basement levels where some of it would reconvert to sound energy, as the tower swayed several times (according to survivors) that energy also would have transmitted to the foundation possibly accounting for the description of multiple explosions described by the janitor.

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The energy would have been conducted down on impact, the the building was designed to take the initial impact of a plane, according to the engineers, I would presume, hopefully, that would be without the basement of the building exploding.

Architect to Builder "Yeah it can withstand the impact of a plane, of course the basement will explode when it does."

What do ya think?
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Originally posted by Crakeur


also, if the lobby was all bombed out, how do you explain all the footage from inside the lobby? there's plenty of footage of the fire fighters heading in, setting up staging areas etc.

Would you be so kind as to add a link to the "plenty of footage"?

Thanks

Originally posted by slank
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Howard hun,

I guess it was that special brand of jet fuel that seeks out the single freight elevator instead of the bank of elevators that went to the 77th floor sky lobby.

Or maybe the 93rd floor unlike all the rest had a funnel shape to the single freight elevator and an uphill ramp to the bank of elevators the sky lobby.
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You seem to be under the impression that individual elevator's are all in separate shafts.

Besides the elevator's, there are also pipe shafts throughout the core area.

Originally posted by slank
Architect to Builder "Yeah it can withstand the impact of a plane, of course the basement will explode when it does."

You also seem to be under a number of misconceptions about the design process for buildings such as the WTC towers.

First of all, it is completely incorrect to state that the towers were designed to withstand the impact of an airplane.

Resistance to airplane impacts were never a design criteria for the buildings.

What happened was, that due to some concerns raised by some over the possibility of an airplane impact, the structural engineer calculated the impact force that a plane would exert on the building. For his calculations he assumed a smaller plane flying much slower than the planes that hit the towers.

No where in this assessment was the affect of the jet fuel or the possibility of jet fuel fed fires considered.

Originally posted by Phoenix
Sorry CM but the compression (impact) wave through steel (columns) travels at several thousands of feet per second due to its high density as compared to air where sound travels at the comparatively slow speed of 600mph.

The energy would indeed transmit quickly to the basement levels where some of it would reconvert to sound energy, as the tower swayed several times (according to survivors) that energy also would have transmitted to the foundation possibly accounting for the description of multiple explosions described by the janitor.

You are assuming that the sound would only travel through air which is wrong. The sound would travel through the structure aswell at exactly the same rate as the 'energy'. The energy you speak of can't be separated from the sound. The energy would cause the sound.

You seem to be under the impression that there would be one compression wave for the sound and one for the 'energy'. That's not correct. There would only be one compression wave containing both the energy later dispersed as sound and the energy which would cause the structural damage. This 'energy' you talk about is the very thing which would cause the sound and travels no faster than the 'sound' because it is quite literally the same thing.

edit: I'm not sure I made myself clear there. The janitor heard a sound (explosion sound?) then heard the planes hit. The only thing I can think of is that he heard the initial impact of the planes (through the structure) and then heard the impact reflections from nearby buildings. To him that might sound like two explosions.

[edit on 24-6-2005 by Chris McGee]

Originally posted by Lanotom
Would you be so kind as to add a link to the "plenty of footage"?

Thanks

Here's a clip of the firefighters going into the lobby:
st12.startlogic.com...

The windows are blown out but it doesn't look like much other damage.

Here's an interview with another guy who was below ground during the 911 attacks. He says walls were coming down in the basement and they felt the impact down there.

RMmorelli00028467_020908_194213hi.rm

Back to the original story that started this thread.

How many of you have actually read this article?

But before Rodriguez had time to think, co-worker Felipe David stormed into the basement office with severe burns on his face and arms, screaming for help and yelling "explosion! explosion! explosion!"

David had been in front of a nearby freight elevator on sub-level 1 about 400 feet from the office when fire burst out of the elevator shaft, causing his injuries.

That is pretty consistent with what I've been saying.

William Rodriguez worked on the basement level of the north tower and was in the building when the first plane struck his building.

"We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture," Rodriguez said. "And then the elevator opened and a man came into our office and all of his skin was off."

(From cnn, 9/12/01)