Debate Tournament Commentary

Yeah, they potentially could go longer, but by giving a week, you'd be able to plan ahead. Even beyond starting on monday, if we could give about a two week notice that the next tournament is about to begin, it would give folks time to adjust their schedule. Wouldn't have to give the topics, just let participants know a couple of weeks beforehand that it's going to be going down.

Again, just a suggestion for what I believe would increase the caliber of the debates even more. I could be wrong, though (contrary to popular belief, I have been wrong before. I think I was about 4, but it does happen!), so take this with a grain of salt

Loki, there isn't any reason to go out and buy a rubber chicken for your closer, though if you already own one I suppose you might as well bring it. I think despite missing a post you've got a decent chance. Your opponent missed his opportunity to flood you with sources and give you more to rebut than you could handle. So the decisiveness of closing statements (especially the inclusion of a source or two to shore up contested points) could still swing it either way.
As I was reading I wished you'd homed in more on things like the Yukos siezure and the assassination of Georgian Premier Zurab Zhvania, not to mention possible complicity in the attempted poisoning of Viktor Yuschenko during the Ukrainian campaign. There were enough skeletons laying out in public that could have been arguably traced back to Putin's closet to paint a very ominous picture. But no- no need for a rubber chicken- just really give em hell in your closer.


For those that have had a hard time keeping up with their debates- I feel your pain. Between Saturday, when I posted my first main post, and tuesday, when I posted my third, I slept a grand total of ten hours in three nights in order to allow several hours of reading and usually several scrapped drafts of my posts while still keeping up my 84 hour work week. Debating in a full work week is VERY trying, so I feel for JJ. My work schedule was supposed to revert back to 40 hours this week, which is why I persisted anyway- otherwise I wouldn't have had a prayer of staying in the tournament.
Luckily, I wont even have to work that much this week. The boss tested my temper for the last time this morning so I bid him adieu, and did so without raising my voice, cursing, or implying any ill-will, especially not threats of violence- honest. For some reason, telling you that makes me want to sing country music so here we go-
"If you'll buy that... I've got- Ocean front property in Ar-iz-ona, from my front porch you can see the sea. Ocean front property in Arizona, if you'll buy that i'll throw the Golden Gate in free."

So, for the next week or two, assuming that the judges view the last few rounds of my debate with thelibra in the same light that I do, I am going to have a lot more time on my hands to make life hard on opponents. I can hardly wait. Shame that I drew libra in the first round though- it's not like I can just sit back and be utterly assured of victory as I await the decision.

-lights a cigarette and leaves the computer to resume pacing-.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Between Saturday, when I posted my first main post, and tuesday, when I posted my third, I slept a grand total of ten hours in three nights in order to allow several hours of reading and usually several scrapped drafts of my posts while still keeping up my 84 hour work week. Debating in a full work week is VERY trying, so I feel for JJ.

Your debate was lively and very informative, very well done for such little sleep.

How about giving the debator with the opening statement a 48hr window rather than a 24hr one? This would give both parties a bit more time to read up and could smooth over any potential schedule hiccups?

Also, how about giving each candidate one 12hr/24hr time out concession per debate? They could post it in the thread of the debate. It would be handy for anyone halfway through the debate who has something unexpected come up.

Just a few ideas....

Looking forward to the Judges decisions!!!

Seems like everyone is pressing for more time. This is accepatable if everyone wants it. Hell even my opponent needs more time. I wouldn't do anythign for this round of debates but maybe the next should have more lead in time or something. I'll be starting classes next week so i'll far less time.

Also, another proposal, I'll be damned if I'm goign to be crawling ATS on July 4th weekend instead of living it up, so I propose a hatius for the july 4th weekend. Frankly, I will probably have to resign and drop out because I'm probably going to see a friend of of mine ... won't be aroudn the computer. I guess I to went to Walmart and got a funny thing called a "life."

So I motion for a brief haitus for july4th weekend

I second that! I have a 4th of July shindig that I am hosting. BBQ'd steaks, smoked brisket and of course cold beer. There is no way that I could participate until Tuesday.
Please, adjust the time to have the next round to kick off on Tuesday instead.

Edit to add: A 4th of July break is a good idea. You wouldn't want ol' Vagabond debating anybody with whiskey in his blood. Flame wars have been known to start that way.

Originally posted by parrhesia

Your debate was lively and very informative, very well done for such little sleep.

It would be incredibly vain of me to give you an applause for that, but God am I tempted lol. Thanks.

I don't suffer as much as some when I'm tired, although the poor structuring and organization of my posts obviously was a product of that.

I'm nervous about losing the debate on those grounds. He had a lot of good data and he presented it very well, although I do think he got a bit peeved at me a time or two and shed the decorum that was serving him so well. If the judges focus in on our affirmations of our positions, it's very close, maybe a slight edge to him.
If the judges focused more on how successful we were at attacking eachother's assertions- I didn't savage him, but I think I deflected a few of his attacks quite handily. So like I keep saying, I don't know what to expect when the verdict comes back.

Back on the topic of sleep, I can see three possible reasons why I didn't completely self destruct in that debate despite the lack of rest.
1. It's the Marine in me.
2. It's the caffine in me.
3. Perhaps my skill is so low that the difference between operating at 100% and 50% just isn't that big.

[edit on 29-6-2005 by The Vagabond]

Boo @ 4th of July. Boo!

Don't be giving it them easy...jk

And yeah, if I get through I think ti would be good to give the rest of us a little break so the Americans can celebrate the 4th and the debate can continue with all its members - sober. :|

Yep, I'll be in the north woods of Wisconsin for the 4th, where I'm lucky to find a phone, much less a compy. Hopefully people throughout the world will allow we Americans this concession of the 4th of July weekend off from debating...Online.

Originally posted by Odium
And yeah, if I get through I think ti would be good to give the rest of us a little break so the Americans can celebrate the 4th and the debate can continue with all its members - sober. :|

Well, at least take our excuse for drunkenness away from us, anyway

Well thanks for listening to us. All of this might be premature for me, because my debate isn't even finished yet, but I believe I stand on high ground.

You know, I was going to post a thread offering it as space to comment on the goings-on in the debtates, and then, by total accident, I clicked on the wrong thing and ended up in this thread (I found out later that it was because it showed up in the recent board business thingy on the member center)...

Anyway, wish I'd known about this thread sooner...

Vagabond, you are one helluva good opponent and a great sport as well. I had a great (if exhausting) time butting heads with you. I wish you the best of luck, and may the best debator win.

And as for my two cents on the 24-hour time issue this coming weekend:
I've got a fiance, a new house, 2 families to pacify, and two seperate social circles to placate as well. All of which want my undivided attention this 4th. So please, in the name of all that is good and pure, give us this weekend off.

And to the rest of you potential opponants, be warned... one of us will be facing you sooner or later. Mwuahahahaha....

Hey, when is Off_The_Street gonna comment? I miss his salty wit.



[edit on 6/29/2005 by thelibra]

Originally posted by howmuchisthedoggy
It would be handy for anyone halfway through the debate who has something unexpected come up.

Talk about having something unexpected come up.......I'm going to be pressing the deadline as I'm having internet access issues.......but I'll construct something, even if it's just obligatory......

.....convenient for me that my opponent stayed off topic.....I don't intend on following that course........

I think it would be irresponsible and premature to celebrate American independence until America has regained it.

As it is, the holiday is little more than an excuse to drink beer and blow stuff up.

I'm watching the comet impact, or I'm going to try at least, but I'll nonetheless be available for debate.

I too had computer problems recently, and recovered just in time to respond, and only because my original opponent pulled out. So..I personally won't begrudge anyone else extra time if they need it.

I also wanted to say, I think some of y'all have been watching too many presidential debates, and taking inspiration from the big boys' nasty ways. The acrimonious tone is slightly amusing at times, I'll give it that, but I think it bears too much resemblance to the mainstream partisan horn-locking.

I think me and Jungle were rather polite?

I tried to stay away from flinging insults.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I think it would be irresponsible and premature to celebrate American independence until America has regained it.

Yeah, it really sucks that I have to wear these chains, and report to the motherland, send all my taxes overseas, and deal with the nobility taking anything that isn't nailed down. I sure hope America declares Independance soon!

(snicker)

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
As it is, the holiday is little more than an excuse to drink beer and blow stuff up.

(blinks) This is a bad thing, how?

We're Americans!
We LIKE to drink and blow stuff up!! It's the American Way!
Alcohol and Explosives march through my veins like radioactive pants!!
THE PANTS COMMAND ME!

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I also wanted to say, I think some of y'all have been watching too many presidential debates, and taking inspiration from the big boys' nasty ways. The acrimonious tone is slightly amusing at times, I'll give it that, but I think it bears too much resemblance to the mainstream partisan horn-locking.

Blah! As long as no one gets down to a personal level, horn-locking is fine. Attacking your opponents contentions (in addition to positive evidence in support of one's statements) is what debate is about. If we get to turn it into a "measuring contest" at the same time, all the better.

I must go drink and blow stuff up, THE PANTS COMMAND ME!

Other than when I called Odium a complete effin' retard, I thought we were rather civil.

I'd also just like to point out that my family, when we get together for the 4th of July, truely celebrate our independance. My family on my mom's side is truely a rags to riches tale, going from slave to multi-millionare in just a few generations. We cherish this nation and the ideals for which she stands. While there may be some problems with the ol' US of A, but she's the best option we have, and the ideal still remains at her heart.

The celebration is amazing, from my grandmother raising the flag to the 1812 Overture playing in synch with a professional fireworks display (rags to riches ). Family members get up and speak on the nation, among other things (a talent show), and everyone's wearing France's colors: Red, white and blue. We celebrate not only our independance from England, but our freedom from the old world ideals. No longer is a man's position and presige dependant on his father, now it is on him. The ideal for which our founding fathers fought so hard against impossible odds freed individuals to be accountable for their own actions. This nation was fought for not to defend dirt, but to defend people. People are the cause for which we fight, be it through words, politics or war. We fight for an ideal where a man can be free, we don't fight for the dirt on which we stand. That's what makes America so great, that's why I love her, and that's why my family gets together every year to celebrate the fourth of July.

Yeah, it really sucks that I have to wear these chains, and report to the motherland, send all my taxes overseas, and deal with the nobility taking anything that isn't nailed down.

The golden shackles were so nice you must have mistaken them for steroidal cufflinks.

Last I checked the majority of your taxes DO go overseas, into the bank accounts of multi-national corporations selling everything from pharmaceuticals to cement. Your taxes sponsor warlords and work gangs in third world nations, they help prop up failing autocratic regimes in the middle east, they buy batons for riot police in SE Asia.

And hey, look, I got nothing against beer and explosives, it's a guaranteed good time. But until the American people drop the yoke and retake control of their destiny, I see no independence worth celebrating. We're being worked like mules so that the upper crust can attain greater luxury. The majority gave up liberty in favor of security, and now the majority have neither.

And when did it become independence week? The fourth is almost a week away!

While the fourth is about a week away, the debates could take up to 10 days. I know I'll be away from my compy for at least 4 days, though, because the 8 hour drive really isn't worth it if I have to turn right around and come back after the celebration.

Hmmm, WyrdeOne, thelibra, do I sense a grudge match brewing?