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Evidence???

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posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 02:40 PM
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Where can I find real evidence proving some of the things Alex Jones claims in "Police State II"? I believe they are conditioning us to become a police state, but it's impossible to even discuss this with most people without undeniable proof. If anyone can direct me to some documents, media, or whatever, I'd appreciate it.




posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 02:42 PM
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Perhaps use a search engine...google, dogpile, etc. and type in "Alex Jones"...I do believe he has a site....
*edit* also some conspiracy sites can have the information or articles that you are looking for.

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 13-8-2003 by Seekerof]



posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 02:46 PM
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uhhh, I kinda made a mess with what I was saying...forgive me.
I am on my wifes computer...mine is being worked on...I have some links on that computer that would help to describe what I am saying and be what you are looking for but, alas, my wife's comp does not have such links....

My apologies...regards
seekerof



posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 02:49 PM
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This topic is so vast that the quest for knowledge must be done by oneself. This website has a great deal of research already done on the subject, it is just a matter of entering the appropriate search words. It would take hours upon hours of time to re-cap all of this in a new thread.

Start with what interests you, and you will find the evidence.

Jones' theory is one of many. Important search words for you to get started: Bilderberg Group, Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, New World Order, Bush-Windsor-Piso Bloodline, Cabal / Illuminati.

You can spend months researching evidence behind any one of the above terms.



posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 02:51 PM
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Schwhew....
Thanks MK, I just couldn't find the right words to say what you did....thank you.


regards
seekerof



posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 02:59 PM
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That's what pisses me off about all the conspiracy theory people. They bring forth all these extraordinary claims, then just say, "It's well documented." Well, if it's so "well documented" why the hell don't they tell people where to find the damn info??? You can't make people believe a bunch of claims supported by nothing but vague BS! If it's so important to make people believe what they're saying, why the hell don't they provide the real evidence? Make it easy for people to find...because no one who doesn't believe in the first place is going to change their mind unless it's spelled out for them.

Thanks for the keywords, though. I'll look them up.

[Edited on 13-8-2003 by Satyr]



posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 03:03 PM
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If one wishes to get pissed off....get pissed off at one's self!
You have the same abilities as we have....fingers, a computer, eyes, and a brain.....
"seek and ye shall find"

A shovel was given 'satyr,' do you want us to dig the hole for you also?!



regards
seekerof



posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 03:03 PM
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I believe MK was pretty clear on where you could find your information.

You have to understand that there are new people logging on every day. It would be very counterproductive to repost previously discussed topics over and over again. They are archived, do a search and scan the information.

If you are truly interested in learning then you will not be afraid to do the work.



posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 03:35 PM
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I said thank you for the keywords, and yes...I'm looking them up right now. But are you trying to tell me that you don't think it's stupid for Alex Jones to go on and on about high crimes, and not supply the necessary undisputable evidence? I mean, the entire reason I want the info, is so I can convince those who don't believe it, and won't take the time to look it up. Without that info, no one is going to be taken seriously. He wants to enlighten the world, but he's not willing to go the extra mile and show the evidence he's already supposedly found? I mean, when I find evidence to prove there's an actual conspiracy, you can bet that'll be the front liner. You have to admit, that sounds a bit suspicious, and I think it's the main reason he's not taken seriously. Don't get me wrong. I'm a very open minded intellectual, and I do believe we're all being duped by our gov't.



posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 03:37 PM
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I think you've answered your own question then.

If he can't post sources of information, maybe they're in his head.



posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 03:42 PM
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I'm a very open minded intellectual, and I do believe we're all being duped by our gov't.


Do you prefer audio, video, or text?



posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 04:00 PM
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Ah! I take it you have an arsenal of info?
I don't care what format. I just love finding evidence of high conspiracy. I spend alot of time contemplating these theories, and now I'm ready to find some evidence. But, like most people, I have no clue where to start.

For instance: Recently, I was watching that Police State video (or maybe it was The Road To Tyranny?), and my stepdad just happened to walk into the room. He started bitching about Alex saying that Roosevelt knew about Pearl Harbor. Well, after sitting there getting more and more pissed off because my stepdad was standing there saying, "Yeah....uh huh. Sure....blah, blah..." like he would not even listen to it long enough to see if any of it made any sense, I decided to try and find this supposed documented proof that Roosevelt did indeed know the date and location of the attack. Well, I've still yet to find anything. Only that he probably knew they were coming, but didn't know the location....and even that was a big "probably". Things like this can be very frustrating when trying to prove that you're not just another conspiracy quack.


[Edited on 13-8-2003 by Satyr]



posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 04:01 PM
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No prob seeker




But are you trying to tell me that you don't think it's stupid for Alex Jones to go on and on about high crimes, and not supply the necessary undisputable evidence?


I just want to say that it is perfectly normal to demand evidence. However, unless Alex Jones posts at this site, it will be difficult to get his particular evidence unless it is widely available. It is not our job to defend Alex Jones' theories. That is for Alex Jones to continue to do. And as you mentioned, he has been selling several videos (some I've seen) to release his theory.

Sometimes the evidence is simply a link to a news article. You read the article and wonder if you are getting the complete story. You begin to formulate hypotheses about the "players" involved.

For example, lets say that you read this on a very reputable website:


The presidential candidate with the most royal genes and chromosomes has, up to now, always won the White House,”


abcnews.go.com...

A little unusual, but probably just a coincidence.

Then you see another story:


Is this a surprise? More than a year after David Icke and other freedom-loving researchers exposed these bloodlines, Reuter's New Service determines the information newsworthy. Perhaps a bit late for the readers of news and articles on the David Icke site, but for the sheeple who think their votes count it may be worthwhile.


www.davidicke.net...

So this guy David Icke predicted that Bush would win the election based on a theory that he has regarding these bloodlines and their political influence throughout history. And then he wins the election, it was a landslide, right?

So at this point I'm thinking to myself, "this is completely insane". Then I start reading a bit of David Icke's work. It is a provocative theory and the man has obsessively done his homework.

If you haven't check it out yet, get Icke's book, "The Biggest Secret". I got my copy at Borders.

Anyways, here is some of Alex Jones' evidence. It is his website:

www.prisonplanet.com...

And here is the official Northwoods document in PDF format:

www.prisonplanet.com...



posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 04:08 PM
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Thanks! I thought infowars was his website.
But yeah, I know what you mean. It's sometimes tough to recognize what the evidence actually is. A theory backed by an event isn't really evidence, most of the time. It's one more point toward a correct theory, perhaps, but still not evidence. David Icke isn't taken very seriously at all, IMO. While he may very well be correct about alot of things, he has so many unprecedented theories, that most people place him in the quack category very quickly.

As for Alex Jones;

If I had purchased his video, only to find out that he neglected to include the hard evidence to his claims, I would've been quite angry. That is the most important part of any theory. Instead of going on for an houir about all of his theories, he could spend half the time with his accusations, and supply links to real evidence, which would make it clear to anyone.

BTW, Seekerof, I don't want a shovel. I want the hill to dig in. I'll use my bare hands, if I find the spot to dig.


[Edited on 13-8-2003 by Satyr]



posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 04:19 PM
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Well, after sitting there getting more and more pissed off because my stepdad was standing there saying, "Yeah....uh huh. Sure....blah, blah..." like he would not even listen to it long enough to see if any of it made any sense, I decided to try and find this supposed documented proof that Roosevelt did indeed know the date and location of the attack. Well, I've still yet to find anything.


The emotional reaction that your stepdad is reported to have had is typical of most americans. It is a reaction that is rooted, in my opinion, in fear of the implication of such a theory if it were found to be true.

It is easy to grumble away the facts of life. Honestly, there are certainly more important, practical things than silly conspiracy theories. My suspicion is that despite the evidence you present, you will not be able to do much to sway his opinion. Of course, I could be wrong (and hope that I am). Just realize that some people can't handle it, for whatever reason.

These political incidents are routinely covered up and the general population only gets a snippet of the truth. Remember that in order to create a political incident, a number of people must be involved. However in the end, only one or two people end up taking the fall (i.e. McKinley, JFK, RFK assassinations). These are patterns: are they intentional or accidental? Look at the coincidences between similar historical events. Are those coincidences really coincidences, or do the individuals involved share a common theme or trait?

Anyways, here's a bit of info about the Pearl Harbor incident that I found:


Beginning on November 30, 1941, Magic revealed that Japanese embassies were receiving instructions to destroy ciphers, codes and secret documents. On December 6, the well-known “fourteen part message” to Japanese diplomats in Washington was intercepted in English. The message conveyed Japan’s rejection of the Hull 10-point ultimatum of November 26, 1941. When President Roosevelt was shown the December 6 message, he is reported to have said, “This means war.” Equally important, however, is the so-called “one o’clock message.” This followed delivery of the fourteen-part message and specified the precise time in Washington, 1:00 p.m. EST, December 7, 1941 when Japanese diplomats were to deliver their message to the U.S. government. That was 7:30 Pearl Harbor time; the Japanese attack began about twenty-five minutes later.

At a minimum, Kimmel should have been warned that the Japanese were collecting targeting intelligence on military installations in Hawaii and particularly on the Pacific Fleet based there; he could have learned of the intended method of the Japanese attack (the use of air-dropped torpedoes); and, he could have been alerted to the intended time of the attack. None of this information was forwarded to Admiral Kimmel at Pearl.

At the AIM luncheon, Thomas Kimmel told of another intelligence indicator that could have warned of an attack on Pearl Harbor. A German spy had been tasked to collect information on anti-torpedo nets in use at Pearl Harbor, apparently for use by the Japanese in their planning for the use of airdropped torpedoes in their attack.

However, the spy, Dusko Popov, was a double agent working for British intelligence. He gave them a copy of the questionnaire he had been given by the Germans; British intelligence passed it on to the FBI. The existence of this questionnaire was concealed until 1983, when it was finally declassified.


www.aim.org...



posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 04:32 PM
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While he may very well be correct about alot of things, he has so many unprecedented theories, that most people place him in the quack category very quickly.


I agree. Let us look to history for a moment:


"Innumerable suns exist; innumerable earths revolve around these suns in a manner similar to the way the seven planets revolve around our sun.
Living beings inhabit these worlds."

--Giordano Bruno, Italian monk of the sixteenth century.

At the invitation of a Venetian nobleman, Giovanni Moncenigo, Bruno returned to Italy as his private tutor. In 1592 Moncenigo denounced Bruno to the Inquisition, which tried him for heresy. Turned over to the Roman authorities, he was imprisoned for some eight years while questioning proceeded on charges of blasphemy, immoral conduct, and heresy. Refusing to recant, Bruno was burned at the stake in Campo dei Fiori on February 17, 1600. Late in the 19th century, a statue was erected on the site of his martyrdom to the cause of free thought.


www.setileague.org...

Public reaction to outlandish theories have been even more severe than ridicule. However, modern scientific instruments have already verified many of Bruno's statements. Was the Church right or wrong in their decision to burn him at the stake?

Even Galileo ran into some troubles. Mind you that many of his discoveries were made through a scientific instrument.


Shortly after publication of Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief Systems of the World - Ptolemaic and Copernican the Inquisition banned its sale and ordered Galileo to appear in Rome before them. Illness prevented him from travelling to Rome until 1633. Galileo's accusation at the trial which followed was that he had breached the conditions laid down by the Inquisition in 1616. However a different version of this decision was produced at the trial rather than the one Galileo had been given at the time. The truth of the Copernican theory was not an issue therefore; it was taken as a fact at the trial that this theory was false. This was logical, of course, since the judgement of 1616 had declared it totally false.

Found guilty, Galileo was condemned to lifelong imprisonment, but the sentence was carried out somewhat sympathetically and it amounted to house arrest rather than a prison sentence. He was able to live first with the Archbishop of Siena, then later to return to his home in Arcetri, near Florence, but had to spend the rest of his life watched over by officers from the Inquisition. In 1634 he suffered a severe blow when his daughter Virginia, Sister Maria Celeste, died. She had been a great support to her father through his illnesses and Galileo was shattered and could not work for many months. When he did manage to restart work, he began to write Discourses and mathematical demonstrations concerning the two new sciences.


www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk...


So even in the example of Astronomy, you see a pattern begin to emerge: the suppression of knowledge through organizational means. This pattern continues in many other areas.



[Edited on 13-8-2003 by MKULTRA]



posted on Aug, 13 2003 @ 05:10 PM
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Yeah. I know what you mean. And if high gov't conspiracies follow suit, they've got their asses covered very well. When I was young, I had the pleasure of knowing many hippies. Not the burnt out, good for nothing, drug taking stereotypical hippies of today, but those who were of a more political standpoint....intelligent individuals who were trying to bring about a widespread awareness of what was really happening in our country. They were slandered by much the same methods as the protestors of the WTO. They were associated with those people who never really understood the movement, but only thought it was about taking drugs and anti-social behavior. Many of the WTO protestors who witnessed the riots will tell you that the masked anarchists were allowed to come in and vandalize, while the police stood and did nothing. Then, when there was enough damage, a state of emergency was declared, and all protestors were lumped into the same group as the (anything but peaceful) anarchists. Protestors were attacked by police, whether they were peaceful or not. The media in turn associated all protestors with those who caused all the trouble, of course. This destroyed their credibility, and has, IMO, made protest almost illegal today. You have to admit, the NWO will stop at nothing, and they have the means to discredit any civilian organization that challenges them. It's truly sad.





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