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Battle Of Words At Paris: Airbus Versus Boeing

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posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 12:13 AM
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Now that the Paris Airshow is over and the dust has settled, its clear that the back and forth battles we have here on ATS seem to also go on between the two companies as well. Perhpas some of us work for one of these companies
But once the sniping and dust settles, along with whatever fallout the WTO case brings which from what I read both sides have adopted a "If im going down, Im taking you with me mentality", it will be years before any of us know who was right with thier vision of the next 20 years.

From Boeing:


Boeing Marketing Vice President Randy Baseler told Show News, a sister publication to Aviation Week & Space Technology, that sales of the A380 have "stalled out," and orders will slow down dramatically as airlines switch to point-to-point services and order more small aircraft.


and From Airbus:



For his part, Airbus President Noel Forgeard magnanimously congratulated his colleagues at Boeing for selling so many 787s, adding, "We hope they enjoy it, because it's over."


Both are from Aviation Week & Space Technology 06/20/2005, page 74




posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 12:57 AM
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I'm not sure about new sales for the A380 but they seemed to do very well overall during the Paris Air Show.

They sold a heck of a lot more planes than Boeing.
280 vs. 146

Airbus' orders rise to 33.5 billion dollars at Paris Air Show

I think the upcoming A350 is what's going to keep Airbus alive.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 01:02 AM
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Ace,

here is a bit more detail of the Paris activity:




*Qatar Airways signed commitments for 60 A350s, giving Airbus' response to the A380 a healthy start. The aircraft will arrive in a mix of standard A350-800s and stretch -900s, with the first -800s arriving in 2010. Airbus is to announce its official launch of the A380 in September.

*Alafco, a Kuwait-based leasing company, said it will take 12 A350s, with options for six. First delivery is in 2012.

*GE Commercial Aviation Services (Gecas) said it will order 10 A350-800s with options to convert to -900s. President/CEO Henry Hubschman said the leasing company hasn't made a commitment yet on the 787.

*Airbus said Jet Airways will be the first in India to operate the A330, purchasing 10 -200/-300s and leasing two more from International Lease Finance Corp. (ILFC).

*Boeing said it has reached agreement with Jet Airways to take six 777-200LRs, four 777-300ERs and 10 737-800s, but the contracts have yet to be signed.

*Singapore's Tiger Airways said it will buy eight more A320s to add to the four it already operates.

*Already a major 777-300ER buyer, ILFC said it will take six more and two 777-200ERs, plus 20 737-700/800s.

*Gecas ordered 20 737s and identified itself as the customer of 12 737s ordered last year but not identified.

*Air Europa bought 18 737-800s and took options on 12. It operates 27 -800s and two 737-400s.

*Qatar Airways committed to 20 777s without designating the type.

*Ryanair bought five 737NGs.

*Boeing said Alaska Airlines ordered 35 737-800s with options for 15, and took purchase rights for another 50. Three of the 35 aircraft were on Boeing's order list for an unidentified customer.

*In addition to its five A380s, Kingfisher committed to buying five A350s and five A330-200s.

*Air Sahara will lease two 777-200ERs from ILFC.

*Air Cairo is completing purchase of six A318s.

*Mexico's ABC Aerolineas signed a preliminary agreement to buy 10 A320s with 10 options.

*Brazil's TAM bought 20 A319/A320/A321s and took options on 20. It signed a preliminary agreement for eight A350-900s with seven options.

*Air Caraibes signed a letter of intent for two A330-200s.
Paris Sales



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 01:04 AM
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From the same article quoted above: Boeing seems to have a larger "book" of aircraft to deliver for a few years.



Heading into the frenzy of the Paris air show, Boeing held an 81-aircraft order lead over Airbus for the year, welcome news after losing its traditional order-and-delivery leadership to Airbus in 2003 and 2004.

Airbus announced several firm orders at the show, as well as many more intents to purchase aircraft, signaling the gap will close. The most significant order is from Kingfisher Airlines, which became the first A380 customer in the huge Indian growth market (see sidebar).

However, Boeing remains ahead and in 2008 expects to retain the lead in deliveries. Airbus officials are putting a slightly different spin on the situation. Forgeard said first-quarter earnings before interest and tax margins for the European aircraft maker stood at 12.6%, compared to 7.7% for Boeing. Although he acknowledged Airbus won't be able to stay at that level for the year, the company's margin will remain in the double digits, he said.




posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 01:11 AM
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Airbus is predicting they'll have a 51% share of the market.
It's going to be close though and could go either way.

It's a shame they didn't start the A350 project earlier.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 01:35 AM
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Have you guys/gals ever been on a long flight in a 747? How about a 777? There's no comparison. Not taking over the tread, just posting my opinions. If you are someone who travels often, or know someone who does, ask them. For a long international flight, a jumbo-liner sucks. Then you can go ahead and wait 30 minutes to deboard with the other 450 passengers. Take a look at some design proposals for the 747 when it first came out. All luxury with a bar and 'diner car' area. Exactly as we are seeing the the A380. There will be no luxury. The airlines will cram people in every square inch. Well, (poorly written) rant over.

Summary: I'd take--even pay more to ride on--the 777 any day of the year.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 01:10 PM
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To be fair, no aircraft, or at least very very few, are actually sold at Airshows, The manufacturersd have sewn these dealls up well in advance and just try to 'out reveal' each other at the event. Its all posturing so little can be taken from show announcements. Much more telling are the end of year sales and delivery figures.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 10:36 PM
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With all the money Airbus gets from the EU, the playing field will never truly be level. I'm happy to see our government taking a stand here. Whats right is right and whats wrong is wrong.


OYG

posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 11:02 PM
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like the way the US helps keep GM above water....

I mean you can't say a typical model of a plane is more uncomfortable because the total capacity is greater or smaller ... it's all about how much money the airline puts in it's business... for example service on foreign airlines is very different on what people get on United, Delta, or Northwest... I've done round trips of the pacific annually since the year of my birth... believe me service on american airlines pales in comparison to any of the airlines based in developed Asian countries... Singapore, and JAL are good examples... Singapore had headrest mounted screens in economy class since the early 90s... and the JAL flight attendants...Marvelous eyecandy.... I don't think they even accept applications from people over 30, or people that can't stay well under the weight requirements... I have nothing against fat old people with bad tempers...until they become flight attendants... and the ones I've seen so far in my 21 years in life have always been wearing a united or a northwest uniform... Maybe it's just my luck....

[edit on 24-6-2005 by OYG]



posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 11:38 PM
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I don't know about other countries but last yea NBC had a show about the future of airliners here in the US, and it defiantly showed companies in the US switching to smaller more efficient jetliners.
Some of the reasons are oil prices, cost of jet and maintenance, ticket prices and more smaller airports being built all over the US.



posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 06:28 AM
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Originally posted by OYG
like the way the US helps keep GM above water....

I mean you can't say a typical model of a plane is more uncomfortable because the total capacity is greater or smaller ... it's all about how much money the airline puts in it's business... for example service on foreign airlines is very different on what people get on United, Delta, or Northwest... I've done round trips of the pacific annually since the year of my birth... believe me service on american airlines pales in comparison to any of the airlines based in developed Asian countries... Singapore, and JAL are good examples... Singapore had headrest mounted screens in economy class since the early 90s... and the JAL flight attendants...Marvelous eyecandy.... I don't think they even accept applications from people over 30, or people that can't stay well under the weight requirements... I have nothing against fat old people with bad tempers...until they become flight attendants... and the ones I've seen so far in my 21 years in life have always been wearing a united or a northwest uniform... Maybe it's just my luck....

[edit on 24-6-2005 by OYG]



mate, it is the same here in oz.........shocking cabbin staff, all rude and grumpy (except virgin, branson gets all the hotties
), never been on jal, but singapore is a cut above fer normal cattle class shlubs like me, free french champs and nintendo all da way....sweeeeet...... but ill have to agree with backtoreality that waitin half an hour to get off a jumbo, then another hour to get into customs sux butt.....the smaller ones seem to create less havoc at the terminals...........far out that was orf topic huh!....sorry, just wated to talk plane mojo



posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
I don't know about other countries but last yea NBC had a show about the future of airliners here in the US, and it defiantly showed companies in the US switching to smaller more efficient jetliners.
Some of the reasons are oil prices, cost of jet and maintenance, ticket prices and more smaller airports being built all over the US.



Airbus planes are cheaper and fuel-effecient. To get everything straight, there's no such thing as fuel-effecient for the US. There are trucks that have an mpg of 11 or less. No wonder the Arabs raise the gas prices as much as they want.




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