Suicide and the Church

I know that in many religions (especially Christianity) suicide is looked down upon as a hellworthy sin. Are there any Bible passages that actually support this?

[Edited on 13-8-2003 by maynardsthirdeye]

Most religions look down on suicide i think. Christianity is the hardest on suicide.

Alright, the hard-core conserative Christian has arrived...

anyways... I'm not sure, I think I remember somethign from Daniel and one of Paul's letters.
I'll go bust out my NIV and see if there is any biblical instruction to not commt suicide.

Exodus 20:13 "Thou halt not kill" in King James,
that's the sixth of the ten commandments.

Be back in a few,
Tassadar

Does islam look down on suicide?? im not too sure if they do

The real question is: Is there anything supporting the reality of "Hell" or is this another case of mis-interpretation and "scare tactics?"

regards
seekerof

All of the major religions reject suicide.
You can't worship God in this life if you commit suicide.

ok cool. It could be scare tactics to make us live a good life

I doubt they would use "scare tactics" to make you live.
I didn't find any veres, but if I do find some, I'll post.

Personally speaking, I'm not gonna kill myself, but, of course, I haven't lived through hell (not real hell, just war) all my life inthe Middle East, so I can see where they are coming from...

Still alive and stayin' that way,
Tassadar

There is only one sin that in that cannot be forgiven: "blaspheming the Holy Spirit."
Now if one wants to consider suicide as "blaspheming the Holy Spirit" that is one own interpretation.

I, of coarse, don't see it that way. Suicide is the same as murder and I fail to see anywhere in the scriptures where murder is singled out as a greater sin. To me, a sin is a sin....there are no degree's to sin, other than what I mentioned above. In the eye's of God, a sin is a sin and all sin is punishable by 'death'.....which I have my own thoughts on, but for the sake of this topic, I will digress from saying.

The Old Testament records a number of suicides. Abimelech had his armorbearer slay him with a sword....Samson destroyed himself along with the Philistines....King Saul and his armorbearer both fell upon their swords.....Ahithophel hung himself....The New Testament records only one....Judas.

I think that the issue of suicide being a sin that will keep one from returning to God is a matter of how one wishes to look at it, interpret the scriptures, etc. The final say and judge is but one Being/Spirit....God! The One; The Source of All..... not you or I.

Source information on this particular issue can be found anywhere on the internet or in most churches...I leave this one with you:
www.gospelcom.net...

regards
seekerof

[Edited on 13-8-2003 by Seekerof]

[Edited on 13-8-2003 by Seekerof]

Suicide .......Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ,
teaches the Apostle Paul (Galatians 6:2).
Give all hope that all will be better and not in taking one's life in your hands, even if it be your own....

For I desire not the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God; wherefore, be converted and live (Ezekiel 13:32).
Ask for help, and have faith in God .

According to the teaching of the Holy Fathers, the meaning of Adam's sin is that man, who was created in the image and likeness of God and infused with breath by His Spirit, when he had appeared on the face of the earth, chose death instead life, evil instead of righteousness.
"And so death passed upon all men, for that in him (Adam) all have sinned" (Romans 5:12), says the Apostle Paul. And having sinned, man brought death also to his children, who shared his nature and life.

Spiritual life for the Christian consists of dying with Christ to sin and the world and of passing with Him through the experience of bodily death in order to be resurrected in the Kingdom of God. Christians must transfigure their own death in the affirmation of life, meeting the tragedy of death with faith in the Lord and conquering, according to the words of the Apostle Paul, "the last enemy-death" (I Corinthians 15:26) by the power of one's faith.

I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die (John 11:25-26).

the Apostle Peter in his First Epistle, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God (I Peter 4:1-2).
Which means that each is given certain sufferings and has to live with hope in the Lord that is the will of God....and not man.

Suicide and the Church disagree on that one who wishes to end his/her life is going against what God has made...He made us in His image.....and death was the result of 'Adams Sin''(original sin) ....Death is also part of the Resurrection....In which Jesus Christ Conquered death and brought life to all that beleive in Him.....
To make suicide 'ones own ' is taking life in your own hands......and disreguarding the words of God.....

In certain circumstances, if the person who committed suicide was because of an illness or of other causes then the church will pardon it .....(In prayers for the dead are read.....for the departure of the soul.....

St Paul refers to purification after death (1 Corinthians, 3, 11-15
The sepulchral inscriptions in the catacombs contain prayers for the dead, prayers for the dead are contained in the most ancient of Christian liturgies, the Fathers speak of a perfect purification before entering heaven
In the Second Book of Maccabees (2 Mac. 12, 43-46) there is the account of Judas Maccabeus sending money to Jerusalem to have a sacrifice performed for the sin of a number of Jews, killed in battle, but who carried idolatrous amulets. The sacrifice was for their release, in the next life, from their sin.

There's more to read here ...

www.unicorne.org...

This is approximately the 734 millionth time this thread has resurfaced -as ever, Estragon cautions discretion lest, unwittingly, a cruel thing be said on a topic that may touch another poster personally.
That said: it does all depend -if you're not a member of the club, martyrdom may appear to just another form of suicide: if you are a member it may be an entirely different matter. In a military context, the officer who shoots himself to avoid dishonour is very different from the officer who charges a machine-gun nest with only his revolver. To a pacifist the distinction may be blurred.
Essentially, Western thinking has focused on "despair" -very often equated with the unforgiveable "Sin unto Death". The "despairing" suicide despairs of God's efficacy and design. Consequently, suicide (after all the if's and but's and maybe's) will be "sinful.
Something similar is to be found in the major religions.

[Edited on 16-8-2003 by Estragon]

So then, someone who sacrifices himself to save another, is of course, guilty of suicide. So, is this then considered a sin?

Morally, we would argue no, religiously, you'd have to affirm that it is....

This is the problem in taking a book's rules to heart. Inconsistency, is pretty much business as usual, for the Bible...

Originally posted by infinite
Most religions look down on suicide i think. Christianity is the hardest on suicide.

Actually, the "hardcore Christian", if indeed they are following the foundational tenents of christianity, would be the LEAST hard on suicide.

Now, that statement comes with a bias, because it comes from a Calvinist viewpoint. I personally believe the message of Christ recorded in the gospels, points toward a Calvinistic interpretation. There will be others who disagree.

Calvinism is based on the belief that salvation is non-meritorious. In other words, there is no "act" or "sin" that can cause salvation to be lost. In other words, we all fall short of "earning" salvation, and that was the whole point of Christ's mission on earth, to hedge the gap that our sinful nature creates between us and salvation. Now, I am not a "fundamentalist" Calvinist. I do believe that there is one thing that we all possess that we can employ to lose our salvation...free moral agency. We don't turn in our ability to choose to believe or not believe when we decide to believe. We don't becomes puppets because we are believers. SO, we can always choose to NOT believe anymore...hence apostasy.

So, after being rather long-winded, but wanting to make sure you understand where I'm coming from, NO, as a Calvinist christian, I do NOT believe that suicide condemns the soul to hell. I'm sure you gonna get a REAL unpleasant talking to, but not condemnation.

My stepfather's father was Catholic. Not just a member but was some member of clergy within it, although I'm not sure what he was. Anyway, after his wife's death he lived with a sorrow and loss that became too much for him and he commited suicide. Now because of the church and the fact that it often does not practice what it preaches it decided to forget all about this man. It did not recognize anything he had done during his life devoted to the church. It would not be part of his burial or anything and from what I hear even gave the impression to the other people of that same church that this man had sinned so bad that they too should forget all about him also from that point on.

Now I'm NOT saying that all Catholic Churches or members are like this, but in this case it makes me cringe with discust that a life of service and devotion is cast away because of one weak moment and should be looked at with compassion for someone in pain if anything. I sometimes wonder if any of those in that peticular church ever considered that this man may not commited suicide if they had taken time to spend with him to help rid him of his lonelyness in the first place. Although Forgiveness and Compassion seem to only be for those who think and act as the church commands, while all others are viewed forever damned!

I had to add "NOT" to the begining of that second part.....oops....Freudian slip maybe???
[Edited on 17-8-2003 by mOjOm]

[Edited on 17-8-2003 by mOjOm]

This was, and is, the way of the Roman Church, mOjOm: you'll recall that Shakespeare, almost half a millennium ago, had Hamlet and Laertes at Ophelia's graveside engaged upon this precise point.
As I earlier cautioned, this is a fraught topic (abortion is another here that can be a gateway to insensitivity).
The Church of England traditionally has made use of the curious device of "insanity" ("while the balance of his mind was disturbed" was the formula) as a disclaimer (Catholicism does the same: insanity excuses the mortal sin).
It is no happy issue and we must, I fancy, dismiss all religious thoughts, or adhere to our texts, or have faith that our God is somewhat wiser than we are.

There is something inherently bad about suicide. On many occassions, I have used various means to communicate with those who have passed on and rather successfully. Not once, have I been able to contact those who passed in this way, nor was I able to get contacted ones, to tell me more of it.... Suffice to say, I don't know what it is about suicide, and after death, but I don't feel it's good.... There were times, when I was young and stupid, that I considered it (I think most have at one point or another), but since these contact failings, it will never even be an option for me....EVER....

Actually Gazrok the Bible does cover your question about sacrificing your life for another.

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

hallo people such lively debates!

I chose this thread as I would like to share my experiance. I lost my Nanna to cancer and my sister to suicide.

Before you judge me I say some knowledge is intamate and personal and can only ever be judged in such a context.

My poppa and I cut a flower each from his Garden and we went to the Spiritualist Church in maylands Perth.
Durring the service our flowers and the flowers of others were read by the mediams performing the service.

I do not doubt at all my sister and Nanna came through. My nanna was as talkative and funny as all ways and sadly my sister said nothing. My nanna and sister had some disagreaments in this life but somehow I felt my nanna was gaurding her fragile soul in the next.

What is truth. If there is truth does it realy matter.

Iam sure there is no such place as hell. If there was there would be no room left anyway. However I have heard talk of a left door. Beware the darkness.

Unity in all things.

Actually Gazrok the Bible does cover your question about sacrificing your life for another.

John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

I am familiar with the verse. However, I'm not basing my belief on a book... I'm basing it on personal experience in contact. While able to contact other dead relatives, or even unknown entities, I have NEVER been able to contact those I've known to pass from suicide (granted, it wasn't the sacrificial kind of suicide)...and this really scares me, about this particular act. Say what you will about beliefs, but I'm going on my experience in this, and a gut feeling that suicide is one of the worst things you can do to your soul....regardless of your religious affiliation....