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NEWS: International Poll Reveals: World favors China over USA

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posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 10:47 AM
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Subz, Iv'e no doubt you can back up your statement that the U.S. was selling weapons to both sides prior to our "official" involvement in the war, but then you must know that American public sentiment at the time was relatively pro-German. FDR had Bill Richardson (father of the CIA) esconsed in N.Y. City sowing seeds of German demonization to prepare America for entry into the war. You also know that huge quantities of war stocks were routed to the U.K. while just a bare trickle went to Germany. Had FDR attempted to enter the war (officially) at that time, America might well have joined the German side.

I'm not saying FDR was a saint, mind you, in fact, history sortof points up the fact he acted more like a greedy king. However, he did manage to get us fighting on the right side--eventually.




posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 11:00 AM
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The American Nazi Party during the early part of the 1900's was the third largest Party, it had a massive following and would get involved in protests with the KKK, etc. It is why they share so many of the same views.

Just be glad America did join in, because if Nazi Germany took over the whole of Europe it would have been only a matter of time till the Nazi Party gained power in America, state-by-state, till an Invasion was possible. The Nazi Party itself only had a small group of members, roughly 30,000 but add the KKK, and other extreme groups to it eventually they would have ended up with some power. Which isn't a good thing.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 11:12 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
Just be glad America did join in, because if Nazi Germany took over the whole of Europe it would have been only a matter of time till the Nazi Party gained power in America, state-by-state, till an Invasion was possible. The Nazi Party itself only had a small group of members, roughly 30,000 but add the KKK, and other extreme groups to it eventually they would have ended up with some power. Which isn't a good thing.

This is undoubtedly the most bizarre thing I've ever heard on ATS and shows that you know nothing on NAZI germany or the AMerican NAZI movement or Hitler!
America taken over by NAZI Party!
Yeah just as soon as somebody votes for the KKK in Brooklyn!
Hitler, if you have taken the time to read MEIN KAMPF, was an admirer of America and its policies, he especially says about it in his Matter of Race, Part 1 of the MEIN KAMPF and says that AMERICAN policy of immigrationis one that he desires and also the American system of social development for a holistic growth.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 11:55 AM
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My point has been lost amidst the WW2 digression. My point is that international opinions care little for what happend in the past, including the good deeds America did in WW2. No one in power in America was responsible for America's actions in WW2.

The Soviets were our ALLIES in WW2 yet look how fast we turned on them.

Those that trot out, look how ungrateful the World is to America because we helped them out of the crapper in WW2 annoy me. You cannot rest on those laurels for eternity when you continue to claim to be the bastion of liberty and justice for the entire planet.

Call us ungrateful as much as you like but the World at large does not trust America any more. Its directly in response to the Bush administrations behaviour. Look at how the World viewed America as recently as the Clinton Administration, hell contrast it to the days following 9/11. Then contrast it to today.

The World at large has gone from predominantly and actively seeking America's assistance in all aspects of World politics to shunning them and trying to contain them.

Why? Because we are ungrateful? Woods for the trees...



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 12:02 PM
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There is much truth in what has been said. The time lag between the German invasion of Poland and the US entry into the conflict that became WWII was to my mind excessive. Though perhaps we did not want to get involved with another 'european war' as we had in 1917. And Americas ability to project it's power was not then as it is now.

The Germans did not declare war on the US until December 1941 however. The British were compelled by virtue of treaty with Poland to enter into the conflict in 1939.
To some extent, America has spent vast resources cleaning up the residue of the two World Wars and the mutual annihilation that Eurpope attempted.

That conflict incidentally is now questioned as to it's ultimate value by none other than Patrick J. Buchanan. A very interesting piece for those following our post-1945 world.

We've drifted considerably from the original thread however, when we minimize the absurdity of a higher admiration of a Red China, a nation born from the communist imperialism of those late 40s. That any european would prefer China to the US is not a logical decision



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 12:15 PM
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Yes it is.

The preference for China over the United States is based purely on the externalities of both countries.

If you asked any country in the World:

Who do you think is most likley to trample on your nations sovereignty today? The US or China?

The majority (myself included) would answer the United States.

This is a selfish outlook we have. It is only a reflection of how both countries are affecting us personally. Its not a statement of the content of the internal integrity or righteousness of either country at all. Its merely - who is the biggest threat to World stability.

The answer for the rest of the World seems to gravitate to the United States. This is based on the flouting of the Security Council and flagrant unlawful invasion of Iraq.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 12:39 PM
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If anything, it's clear by many of the responses that a good portion of people are disturbed and upset by the fact the world favors China over the U.S. Muaddib, in particular.

I agree, it has more to do with the current administration than the country itself.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by subz
The preference for China over the United States is based purely on the externalities of both countries.

If you asked any country in the World:

Who do you think is most likley to trample on your nations sovereignty today? The US or China?

The majority (myself included) would answer the United States.

I'd have to agree, yet I'd like to add that I do believe the title is misleading. The world simply doesn't favor US policy right now, if you'd ask who they would prefer to have global hegemony, any person sane of mind would answer the United States as noone believes that if China had the same power as the US, they'd be remotely as benevolent...



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 03:07 PM
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(This is my first post. I finally registered. Be gentle.) I hope I'm not all over the place on this one.

IMO it's interesting hearing/discussing how the US is viewed around the world. But I am with those here who don't value polls much. So, I like this discussion resulting from the poll but couldn't care less about the poll itself.

The poll is vague and meaningless to me. I don't really know who was polled or how directly they are influenced by Chinese or US policy. I live in the US and I would view the question from the standpoint of how imports/exports affect the standard of living here for American workers since that is the first thing that comes to my mind as far as how I am affected by China.

If I were to value the poll at all as a "popularity" poll, which I find it to be, the value would be slim at best. Were starving people who receive food from American charities polled? I'd think those people would rate us highly. Someone who had a mid-eastern relative killed in our current war would rate us on the low end. By whom are the polled people informed? What media informs them? Are they "well-informed" or informed at all? Are they aware that China mandates required abortions? Are they aware China has the most sophisticated firewall in place that chokes communication with the rest of the world?

Again, if I knew how much the polled have been or will be affected, I could adjust my value of the poll. But polls within my town, state and country are flawed at best. A multinational poll? Hmmm.

It doesn't feel great to not be popular at the moment. I care but I don't care. I DO care how we truly affect people in other nations. Do I care what France thinks? Not really. Denmark? Even less. Would I listen to a one-on-one discussion by people from France and Sweden. Absolutely. It's sort of expected for American noses to wrinkle when France is mentioned and vice versa. I do that. But I think it's sort of an inside joke, like giving your annoying cousin a wedgie. Our pop culture has so many levels of irony and cynisism within itself that I shudder how it looks to the "outside." I think of the Indian convenience mart clerk in the Simpsons. Most people right here in the US don't get that the show intends that character to be a statement about the fact that that stereotype is pretty much institutionalized but often very real here. We have to be the most self-depricating culture around. (I think the english do a pretty good job of it too though.)

An american woman who moved to China mentioned she felt safer there since the crime rate is lower. But is that what the poll was about? I have no idea. If safety figured into it, I would want to know what the male to female ratio was in the poll. As well as how many elderly were involved. How much freedom should we give up for safety?

I'd like to see a poll (which I would mistrust as well) about where people would rather live.



[edit on 24-6-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

I wonder what kind of site this "Rediff" is. I also have to wonder if it is true that most of the people in the world favor China, who is taking steps to invade a country that has never been a threat to China...


Two points stood out to me here:

1: Red would only be seen in America, outside of the US, as a bad thing. Ie: communism. Funny that it was the red states that put Bush in.


2: Iraq was a threat to the US?


Man, they don't have the population or tech that Canada has. And you know how we're looked at.....
. Nuff said.


A bit of info on the red state blue state thing.

This was commented on during the last election cycle by a commentator on Fox News. Traditionally red states were for states that went democratic, blue states for the republicans. However, red usually means in the US public mind communist/socialist. But this does fit since the demos are "mostly" socialist in their policies. So to break up a prejudice against the dims on this the press corp jsut agreed to reverse the color assignments. Silly but true.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 03:57 PM
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The world simply doesn't favor US policy right now, if you'd ask who they would prefer to have global hegemony, any person sane of mind would answer the United States

No sane person would say they want anyone to have a global hegemony, the US or otherwise. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. A world-spanning US empire would be as bad as any other. To claim the US in somehow invested with some inherent benevolence is self-delusion. We are equally as capable of tyranny and brutality as any other group of people on the planet.

[edit on 6/24/05 by xmotex]



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 04:34 PM
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Let them have China. Living in slavery is always better than freedom. Find out who these people are and give them one way tickets to China where they can work in a sweatshop producing bogus Viagra for $.15 a day. Don't forget your own ticket, Moretti, unless you already live there.

[edit on 2005/6/24 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Let them have China. Living in slavery is always better than freedom.


What freedom do you have Grady? Controlled by the media(government)? Living in fear? Not a politician from either of the major parties that care about you?

Doesn't sound like freedom to me.

Yes, I know it's a Green Day song but I find it apt.

[edit on 24-6-2005 by intrepid]



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 04:40 PM
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First off america is not a global threat like China is. Yes America would love to have its ideas all over the earth but its not goint o happen because the american people are too lazy to frankly. China is a different story. They think they are superiour to the entire world. If they think they can take over tawain or any other country they would do it. Their is just too much pressure by the US. CHinia is a threat to the world but just like in WWII Europe is being stupid and embracing the enemy.

Hell I think its time for isolation again. Screw the rest of the world. We should sit here in the good ole USA focus on our asses and our domestic policies and grow rich and happy like we were.

Just remember Europe and the Rest of the world. We have taken over more territory then any other country and we have also givin it all back. We did it in the past and we will do it in the future. This ingratitude pisses me off.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 04:48 PM
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Quicksilver, I've been to China several times and not once have I came across Chinese people who think like that. My area has a large number of Chinese International students and none of them act like they are better then the rest of us.

The only thing they do, do, is work a lot harder then any of the British, European or American students that go to these Uni's.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Let them have China. Living in slavery is always better than freedom.


What freedom do you have Grady? Controlled by the media(government)? Living in fear? Not a politician from either of the major parties that care about you?

Doesn't sound like freedom to me.

Yes, I know it's a Green Day song but I find it apt.

[edit on 24-6-2005 by intrepid]


I know I'm not Grady but...

Just because a country doesn't have anarchy doesn't mean that the country doesn't have freedoms. I helped in an alternative school for troubled teens and a lot of them always said "we're not free in this country" and the like (USA). That's just teenage semantics.

I know that I can visit this site and post my comments without fear of government retaliation even though I'm not 100% free because moderators can edit me. Am I controlled by ATS? No. Are the "media" and government controlling? Yes. But am I "controlled" by the "media" and government in this country? No, I can ignore the "media" and more importantly become a part of the "media."

I'm sometimes fearful of situations but I do not "live in fear."

And on your last question, do you vote for politicians that "care for you"? How do you know they do? Did you meet them? I mean, voting for policy and track record makes a lot more sense. Where is the country where the politicians "care for you"? A dictatorship?

How many politicians can the Chinese vote for?

Can a top-40 band (green day) make political comments against the establishment in China?

(sorry for all the questions.)

[edit on 24-6-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

[edit on 24-6-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts
(sorry for all the questions.)


No need to be sorry, damn good questions. The thing is, now you're comparing the freedoms of America today with China today. Not what I intended. Grady brought up that America has freedom, I purport that America has less freedom than it did, in itself, 20 years ago. I'm not a big Reagan fan but his administration was much more friendly than this one.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts
Can a top-40 band (green day) make political comments against the establishment in China?


But enough songs and musicians have been banned World over, not just in China, Germany, America. I for one know the album Future Of War by Atari Teenage Riot was banned in Germany.

www.digitalhardcore.com...

If you do a search you can find a lot more.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by 2nd Hand Thoughts
(sorry for all the questions.)


No need to be sorry, damn good questions. The thing is, now you're comparing the freedoms of America today with China today. Not what I intended. Grady brought up that America has freedom, I purport that America has less freedom than it did, in itself, 20 years ago. I'm not a big Reagan fan but his administration was much more friendly than this one.


I definitely agree with you on this. The situation is a lot different though. Our most metropolitan city wasn't desecrated by hijacked american jetliners. Political tension IS high for sure now too and the world moves faster than ever in more and more directions at once. A lot of these directions are based on paranoia at the moment.

Things always get more complicated as they grow and we obviously have more laws than 20 years ago. I was too young to notice if the media was controlling but cable was barely out of the womb then. I'll bet the media was controlling. I remember one thing though, and that is when reagan was shot.

Anyway, things can't swing in one direction forever. I have to believe that our laws and government will catch up with the times. It's only recently that things started moving this quickly and lots of our representatives were old when even that started and are still in office today.

[edit on 24-6-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 05:38 PM
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Um..

This is the same China that is STILL jailing people and killing people for arguing against the government?

I do believe many popular, public CELEBRITIES and other popular leaders speak out against America and nothing happens.

C'mon people, comparing the freedoms of China to the U.S. is like comparing apples and oranges. Hell, I've been to China and let me tell you, it isn't good 'ol Texas I'll tell you that much


-wD



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