NEWS: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize or Resign Over Liberal Slur

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Um excuse me,

BUT,

Unlike the rosy picture painted by Cheney and Rumpsfeld, the top pentagon brass in Iraq say there is no drop in insurgent activity and that foreign fighters are pouring in.

Iraq was a 1/5th of a TRILLION dollar money toilet for funneling funds to Haliburton and Bechtel.

There is no stability in Iraq and no exit strategy in sight.

The Adminstration lied about aluminum rocket tubes magical transformations into centrifuges.

Got a hand it to you hard core republicans clinging that fiasco in Iraq as it keeps on sinking.

To everyone, be warned, another WMD attack is being [has been] planned as a distraction from the disaster of NeoCon leadership.
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Sounds to me like Rove got it 100% right.

He said pretty much exactly what the rest of us conservatives say in ATS everyday.

Right in Karl!! All we need to do is unleash our heavy bombers over the Sunni Triangle and call it a day.


Maximu§

The motto here is what, slank?
Last I checked it was "Deny Ignorance", not embrace it.

as posted by slank
To everyone, be warned, another WMD attack is being [has been] planned as a distraction from the disaster of NeoCon leadership.

Erm, excuse me also, but your link/source to/of this assertion is what?
Just a 'gut feeling' or an educated guess based upon?
Reminds me of the boy who cried wolf.




seekerof

I suspect that he believes that we attacked the World Trade Center ourselves and that we never landed on the moon...

Originally posted by slank
.
Um excuse me,

BUT,

There is no stability in Iraq and no exit strategy in sight.

Do you ever look for the positive things happening in Iraq? I know it's hard to believe that there is any, but...

chrenkoff.blogspot.com...

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Bush was dropping in the polls and his administration was floundering prior to 911, then we had 911.

Bush is floundering in Iraq and with Social Security and dropping in the polls, *pause* what seems likely?

Janitor on scene at WTC attack, confirms basement explosions just seconds prior to north tower impact.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Ray Lemme, an FDOT investigator, was brutally murdered when he was going to reveal laundering of Bush brothers and their allies's money through Florida's turnpike system. [FDOT - Florida Department of Transportation]
www.abovetopsecret.com...
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Unfortunately, it seems that most politicians are horrible at speaking spontaneously. None of them are unbiased. I'm pretty numb about it at this point. Not to say that I don't find this "right wing" comment offensive.

I also take offense at the "leftist" casual use of "christianity" when refering to "right wing" militant evangelicals as recently done by Dean. I also dislike any polititian (Bush) mixing religion with policy. I wouldn't want to hear "conservatives" refering to "democrats" as an "atheist party."

I think apologies should be made and outrage voiced. But again, these politicians are not savy people. A huge amount of trouble comes when using loaded words and generalizations like "democrat" and "republican." What do they mean really? Both sides have noisy militants who get a lot of sensational screen time and most of my friends vote for candidates, not parties anyway.

I don't want to defend or make excuses for any dumb statement made by a knucklehead. Maybe he (Rove) was upset at some "ultra-liberals" who were "too concerned" with finding the warm fuzzies with our attackers "too early" after the attack.

Actions and performance should be the primary basis for demanding resignation.

Quotes ("") used to highlight words I find very generalized and vague.



[edit on 24-6-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

[edit on 24-6-2005 by 2nd Hand Thoughts]

Originally posted by Seekerof
The motto here is what, slank?
Last I checked it was "Deny Ignorance", not embrace it.

as posted by slank
To everyone, be warned, another WMD attack is being [has been] planned as a distraction from the disaster of NeoCon leadership.

Erm, excuse me also, but your link/source to/of this assertion is what?
Just a 'gut feeling' or an educated guess based upon?
Reminds me of the boy who cried wolf.




seekerof

Gotta disagree with you on this one Seekerof, this administration is playing the public like a musical instrument. I didn't see slanks post as being even remotely out there. It may not be WMD, it may be something else to fuel the fear but it will probably be there.

Remember, I'm looking at it from the outside.

Originally posted by intrepid

Gotta disagree with you on this one Seekerof, this administration is playing the public like a musical instrument. I didn't see slanks post as being even remotely out there. It may not be WMD, it may be something else to fuel the fear but it will probably be there.

Remember, I'm looking at it from the outside.

I wouldn't doubt something happening to fuel paranoia. I expect it before Dec. 31 2005 when the Patriot Act achieves twilight. I don't expect an attack, but on the extreme end a "thwarted attack" and on the less-extreme end, reports from the government about "difficulties" in apprehending enemies here at home.

Remember a couple months ago when Patriot Act discussion was gaining momentum in the media? Suddenly there were three simultaneous items in the news that seemed aimed at pushing the Act toward positive light. This is how I remember it:

1. Some madman killer was let into the usa from canada with a chainsaw.

2. Something about a confiscated laptop and so-called plans for an attack.

3. Some guy in california had attended a terrorist training camp in the mid-east.

Maybe just a coincidence but I doubt it.

#1 aimed at implementing "necessary" checks like retinas and fingerprints.

#2 aimed at supporting sneak-and-peaks and the lockdown of public areas.

#3 aimed at hinting at another attack to generally fuel paranoia.

See, we need to give up more and more privacy. Sure, an attack wouldn't be shocking, but we've been at war for a while now and so far nothing on US soil. And nothing since 2001. But see, we must continue to button-down new hatches around the citizens.

On the other hand, I wouldn't doubt Bin Laden suddenly appearing to raise public moral toward the cabinet's policies. Maybe he'll be spotted or captured or his dead body will suddenly appear. It happend to Saddam and good 'ol Uday and Qusay.

HATE is doubleplusgood after all.

Originally posted by intrepid
Gotta disagree with you on this one Seekerof, this administration is playing the public like a musical instrument. I didn't see slanks post as being even remotely out there. It may not be WMD, it may be something else to fuel the fear but it will probably be there.

This is what I'm talking about, from another thread:

Here's FOX using the terrorist spin like they do when all stories break.

x302.putfile.com...

BTW, I'm not sold on the post, could have been tampered with.

AWingAndASigh:

I never said that an apology was not in order. But to say something such as "we were working harder than you!" compared to "they acted as NAZIS" is on a completely different level.

Comparing Gitmo to a death camp and comparing the work ethic of two political parties is COMPLETELY different.

I was making a point. A point that is completely valid.

-wD

WHat is interesting is that even tho there were doubts to the 2000 election and Bush's acension to the presidancy after 9/11 almost EVERYONE backed the President in make those that caused the 9/11 attacks and make them pay for it. Democrats, Liberals, heck even the peace activitsts lost thier voice. with the only unity we have ever seen in the Pro-conservative anti-liberal bush administration.

TO say that Liberals were not with the conservatives and vice versa as to be the purist form of ignorance and wishful thinking.

Karl Rove stumbled TWICE over a prepared statment near the end, with the two sentances of the comparison that everyone objects to. Not a smooth delivery, and he knew what he was doing making that statement.

To me he is doing a great job for the terrorists by dividing this country even more with lies and rhetoric

This thread brings Leonard Cohen's song "There Is A War" to mind.

Originally posted by intrepid
.................
Gotta disagree with you on this one Seekerof, this administration is playing the public like a musical instrument. I didn't see slanks post as being even remotely out there. It may not be WMD, it may be something else to fuel the fear but it will probably be there.

Remember, I'm looking at it from the outside.

And looking from the outside what evidence do you have for your assertion?

Ok...what evidence do you have for saying this?....how can you corroborate this?....

Sorry but slank's points, are first, off topic, second i looked at those sites and no corroboration except from the same site is given. Those claims are way out there...

You intrepid, Slank, and some other members seem to be afraid so much about what terrorist could be doing next, and you feel so powerless to do anything about it that you must blame someone else for it to get some control back of your life.

Wake up once and for all intrepid....it was Islamic extremists who attacked the US in 9/11, and it was islamic extremists who attacked Spain in 3/11... you want to blame somebody, blame Islamic extremism...or are you too afraid to do this?

“Today, I want to speak to every person who voted for my opponent,” Bush said. “To make this nation stronger and better, I will need your support, and I will work to earn it. I will do all I can do to deserve your trust.”
www.msnbc.msn.com...

This is how Bush works to earn our trust?
Id have (still little,but) more respect for him if he was strong enough to demand an apology from Rove. He should be busy uniting the country, not supporting the malicious witch hunting of liberals.

Im sure after 9/11 all the liberals in NYC just wanted to make the terrorists tea and crumpets and discuss their feelings.
Completely insulting!

intrepid, if I may have a say.........

Sometimes, Mauddib, I get the impression that you just like to argue.....and though your open and vehement defense of the credibility of a widely accepted to be incredible aqdministration is admirable in some way, I would like to point out a few things.........sorry if this is directly off topic, but the round about nature of this discussion could use some background.....

Originally posted by intrepid
Gotta disagree with you on this one Seekerof, this administration is playing the public like a musical instrument.

Originally posted by Mauddib
Ok...what evidence do you have for saying this?....how can you corroborate this?....

Aside from the intelligence reports that have come to be known as falsified, what else do you need to realize that the this administartion has some skeletons and will lie or distract from that to prevent that from either being released or attenuated to.

And that's an aspect of psy-ops that is given very little attention......distraction. Throughout the Middle Eastern conflict, we have had human interest stories that have done well to take hold of our populations collective heart strings and provoke them into reaction......Terry Schiavo, Aruba, and various other corporate and celebrity highlights that have pushed our international affairs towards the back of our minds.

Basic rule of arguement.......Control the Subject Matter

What evidence exists to support the potential lies of this administration? Mostly indirect and subjective forms, admittedly, most won't stand the literal and objective heat of the courts, but then again, the objective and literal points that have shown the Iraq War to be based on incomplete information and reactionary attitudes have resulted in only obligatory consequences for those involved. So we have only suggestive materials to showcase the mild machinations of our current reality..........

Source: Col. Sam Gardiner, retired Air Force Colonel
If you look at the way the statements were made, who made them, how they were made, it becomes clear -and, in fact, I even have gotten some sort of nods from people inside that this is a psychological operations

www.democracynow.org.../12/23/160242

A former Colonel went on record stating the efforts of psy-ops teams to control the mindset of a population. Indeed, it is above shown to be subjective in nature.......the way statements were made and so forth. What rarely gets talked about is the aspects of human communication that are very subtle and low key.....inflection, nodding while speaking opinions, concentration on vague references and ideology........these are where alot of the implorations and subtle directions are given. And I assure you, that politicians are versed in at least the basic aspects of these arts.......www.eagleforum.org.... I would venture to state that the level of understanding is directly corrolated to the popularity and size of the audience for any given personality....but that is my unsupported assertion......

At any rate, the above quote by the Colonel proves by admission that psy-ops is understood by the military and higher authorities. We can further state that controlling the mindset of a human is a powerful tool, and conclude that, if it is being used on some people, then it is probably being used on other people. And what other people are there? Well the popoulation of the current superpower.......to overlook and allow the minds of a , for all intents and purposes, free and unchecked population is irresponsible.....especially in the face of some heavy hitting implications........

Source: Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting
In February 2002, the New York Times reported that the Pentagon's Office of Strategic Influence (OSI) was "developing plans to provide news items, possibly even false ones, to foreign media organizations" in an effort "to influence public sentiment and policy makers in both friendly and unfriendly countries."

Source: Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting
This operation raises obvious questions about the government's use of media to broadcast disinformation at home and abroad-- not to mention questions about journalistic gullibility and reluctance to question official claims

www.fair.org...

Further proof that the government will exert control over the media........and this media was directed at the American population.......regardless of the claim that the intended target were insurgents. Really, how many terrorist insurgencies are sitting on a couch watching the american news media? But we have people whose job it is to detail as completely as possible the viewing habits of the American population.......and information is power because it allows you to determine an action......


To re-route this post to the topic at hand, so as to avoid an obligatory slap on the hand, I will contend that the comment made by Karl Rove is immaterial and irrelevant. My skeptical mind will further conclude that the comment was widely publisized to induce the ire of the American population in a direction that ultimately doesn't matter......because partisanship is a divide and conquer tactic and this incarnation is really only an, "I'm better than you," type of bickering, imo.

Originally posted by Mauddib
...or are you too afraid to do this?

Granted, this quote was directed at intrepid, but I felt somewhat obligated to respond, seeing as this is a blatant needling on your part.


[edit on 26-6-2005 by MemoryShock]

[edit on 26-6-2005 by MemoryShock]

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Liberal - NOT a religious barbarian

against slavery
against selling your daughter into slavery
believe that sensible low interest loans are good for business and the world economy, even if the bible says otherwise
against stoning a young bride to death because she doesn't happen to be a virgin
against stoning someone who commits adultery to death

Muaddib,
a little clue
If you want America to become a barbarian state like most in the middle east then by all means be a religious reactionary [while calling yourself a conservative] and send us back to the Barbarian governments of the bible.
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Wow MemoryShock....after all that you really said nothing and gave no evidence at all....humm, wonder why....

I wish you didn't open pandora's box again MemoryShock, and instead would have stayed on topic.....but as always when someone makes claims that are obvious exagerations, flase claims, and they address them to me, i have to show what those claims are.

Even after all the running around that those countries which were in cahoots with Saddam continued giving more and more time to Saddam and his regime to hide, destroy and move the stockpiles...even thou we did not find the stockpiles of wmd, we did find a lot of evidence which clearly demonstrated that Saddam was breaking the UN sanctions and had at least restarted the wmd programs in Iraq.

Anyways, the US, UK and Spain were not the only ones who knew that Saddam was a threat.

Signs of WMD found in Iraq
04/08/2003 20:33 - (SA)

Karl Ritter


Stockholm - Swedish arms experts found signs of an Iraqi programme for manufacturing prohibited weapons during a secret visit there in June, their supervisor said on Monday.

Military and government officials played down the claims and criticised the visit, saying it wasn't authorised.

Two chemical and biological weapons experts travelled to Iraq to help a television team evaluate information it had obtained about Saddam Hussein's alleged weapons of mass destruction, said Aake Sellstroem, from the Swedish Defence Research Agency, who authorised the visit.

The information indicated Iraq had a programme for making chemical and biological weapons as late as last year, but yielded no clues about whether any actual weapons were made, he said.

Excerpted from.
www.news24.com...

At least one of the countries which opposed the war also was providing the US with intelligence since 9/11 that Saddam was going to carry terrorist attacks in US soil.... been posting this time and time again, and will continue to do so until some people around here wake up and see that it was true that Saddam was a threat to the US, and he was breaking the UN sanctions.

MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Russian intelligence services warned Washington several times that Saddam Hussein's regime planned terrorist attacks against the United States, President Vladimir Putin has said.

The warnings were provided after September 11, 2001 and before the start of the Iraqi war, Putin said Friday.

The planned attacks were targeted both inside and outside the United States, said Putin, who made the remarks during a visit to Kazakhstan.

Excerpted from.
www.cnn.com...

We have other sources which also said the same thing.

Iraqi defectors say that Saddam trained terrorists for attacks against US and EU

STILL AT WAR: One of the men making the allegations was a lieutenant general and used to be one of the most senior officers in the Iraqi intelligence service

NY TIMES NEWS SERVICE , NEW YORK
Saturday, Nov 10, 2001,Page 6

Advertising Two defectors from Iraqi intelligence said Wednesday that they had worked for several years at a secret Iraqi government camp that had trained Islamic terrorists in rotations of five or six months since 1995.
They said the training in the camp, south of Baghdad, was aimed at carrying out attacks against neighboring countries and possibly Europe and the US.

Excerpted from.
www.taipeitimes.com...

I am not going to go over all the evidence once again, if you want to take a look at all of it do a search in the forums and you will find plenty of evidence. What reason would Saddam had, for having missiles which only could carry chemicals?

Jan. 16, 2003, 4:25PM

11 empty chemical warheads found in Iraq
Chronicle news services

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- An inspection team searching bunkers in southern Iraq today found 11 empty chemical warheads that Iraqi officials had not declared to the United Nations, a U.N. spokesman said. Iraq insisted that it had reported the rockets, which it said were old and never used for chemical weapons.

A 12th warhead was also found that needed further evaluation, and samples were taken for chemical testing, said Hiro Ueki, the inspectors' spokesman in Baghdad.

Excerpted from.
www.chron.com...

The premise which was given to the American people, and the world, was that Saddam posed a threat to the US and to the world, and that he was breaking the agreement set forth by the UN, all of which was true, and if Saddam did not have wmd and did not have a working program why did we find so much proof of the contrary?....

One more thing, I am not going to apologize for having to respond again to claims that are obviously not true and which took the thread off tangent once more.

BTW, Rove should not apologize for telling the truth, who should apologize are all those people who keep calling our troops NAZIS and even Republicans NAZI and keep spouting derogatory comments and insults because we can see that there is more than enough proof for having ousted Saddam and his regime.


[edit on 26-6-2005 by Muaddib]

Who called American troops "nazis"? I think you'll find no one ever said that Muaddib. Stretching the truth will do you no favours in the long run.

An again with Iraq. Give it a rest Muaddib.

[edit on 27/6/05 by subz]

Originally posted by Muaddib
Wow MemoryShock....after all that you really said nothing and gave no evidence at all....humm, wonder why....

Didn't say anything, huh? Ah contraire, Mauddib......while you're so busy filing through media reports that state that chemical and biological weapons were found, that were most likely left over from the original Gulf War and restated as being Saddam's obvious terrorist program,
I was illustrating the extent in which the media has been fed bogus reports. And if the media gets fed false information in one case, who's to say that other instances wouldn't warrant a little white lie in an effort to resurrect the populations misguided faith in a government that is running rampant all over the place.

To re-emphasize my point...

Originally posted by intrepid
...this administration is playing the public like a musical instrument.

Originally posted by Mauddib
Ok...what evidence do you have for saying this?....how can you corroborate this?....

intrepid was claiming that the current administration was playing the public, in which you asked for evidence. I provided the evidence.

Source: Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting
This operation raises obvious questions about the government's use of media to broadcast disinformation at home and abroad-- not to mention questions about journalistic gullibility and reluctance to question official claims.

The administration, regardless of the fact that Saddam had a cold or even a petrie dish cultured with his mucus, has plenty to be backtracking on. They presented their case for Iraq as an open shut case and missed by alot........they even had to make official statements to that effect....

Powell Admits False WMD claim
www.commondreams.org...

The topic turned to the media and it's role as the middle man between this administration and the public. As I have clearly presented, there is a problem with the middle man.

Btw, boldcasting the word nazi isn't going to help your arguement and your insistence on re-hashing tired details that still fail to justify the indescrepencies in the governments logic...........