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NEWS: The House Approves Anti-Flag Burning Amendment

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posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 04:02 PM
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Have to show my ignorance on this one.......what's a pink triangle sign?




posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by WeBDeviL

My question to all who seem so opposed to the "neocons" who sit in Washington is this:

Why, instead of actually going to Washington and protesting, or gathering in numbers and petition your local Congressman or Senate representative to do something, you sit behind your computer and type about it?

If you want your voices to be heard, then by God, go get them heard. Democracy still exists, despite what the conspiracy theorists may claim!

-wD

One of the finer points made here so far.

Perhaps there is a way to sit behind the computer and get petitions?


Petitiononline.com

Petitions.org

I have to be honest though, I'm not sure how much of a use these things can be.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by WeBDeviL
My question to all who seem so opposed to the "neocons" who sit in Washington is this:

Why, instead of actually going to Washington and protesting, or gathering in numbers and petition your local Congressman or Senate representative to do something, you sit behind your computer and type about it?

If you want your voices to be heard, then by God, go get them heard. Democracy still exists, despite what the conspiracy theorists may claim!

-wD

Great point! Aside from the Atlantic Ocean in your case there is nothing stopping me from marching on Downing Street. Ive walked past it twice this year and saw all the armed police with fully automatic weapons guarding it.

I dont know what paralyses me into not doing anything. I guess its the decentralization of us all. I dont want to march in a Greenpeace march or a Nuclear Disarmament march or anything like that. I dont agree with all their demands.

The only other outlet I would have would be to create my own movement and gather the publics attention. On this I have considered it MANY times and am still none the wiser on how to go about it.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 04:08 PM
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I actually find this highly amusing, all this fuss over a flag.

Oh well, just an opinion of course.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by Kriz_4
I actually find this highly amusing, all this fuss over a flag.

Oh well, just an opinion of course.


It goes a lot deeper than just a flag. It is called loss of personal freedom. How many freedoms are you willing to give up?



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by cryptorsa1001

Originally posted by Kriz_4
I actually find this highly amusing, all this fuss over a flag.

Oh well, just an opinion of course.


It goes a lot deeper than just a flag. It is called loss of personal freedom. How many freedoms are you willing to give up?


Not too sure what you are trying to say to me. Mind clarifying exactley what you mean by those statements?



So are the gun control laws currently in force in Britain. Though servants shall not own firearms.


I agree that more and more we are here for them rather than them here for us.

However on the firearms issue. You have to remember that 98ish percent of British people support these laws.



[edit on 23-6-2005 by Kriz_4]



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 04:40 PM
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Well every country has the right to make whatever laws it wants but from my point of view i see this as a loss of freedom of expression. Criticism of your country should be allowed and burning the symbol of your country is a way some people express it and having the freedom to do so is important. Anyway this is really a fight for Americans because it's their flag and their freedom but that's how i would feel if burning my countries flag was illegal. Not that i condone burning any flag or would do it myself but if some people want to express their discontent by burning a flag than they can do it. I of course would reserve the right to call them idiots and point out that they have acomplished very little by burning the flag and it may even be counter productive for their political cause (whatever it is) but than again if they think it's an effective way of protesting so be it.

[edit on 23-6-2005 by Trent]



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 04:41 PM
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(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning. (Disposal of Unserviceable Flags Ceremony)


www.legion.org

The flag code (which is completely ignored by just about everyone these days anyway) clearly points out that burning is the prefered method of disposal for flags no longer fit for display. Hopefully they didnt forget this when creating this piece of legislation. Furthermore is this such a dire issue that it requires a constitutional ammendment? I would have figured the whole gay marriage thing which seems to have everyone right of the middle in a twist over would be first up on the block, especially since they need to appease those who helped them clinch another election.
Too bad the wankers up on capitol hill didnt follow the code more closely, they wouldnt be so twisted up about it and might even make some moves to stop all this flag merchandise that is in blatant violation of the Flag Code.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 04:49 PM
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About 30 years ago, my former high school teacher did an experiment with her Civics class (before I was in high school) in which they dragged an American Flag around the grounds of the school through the halls, and back to the classroom. She almost lost her job. The only reason that she kept her job was because of the Supreme Court's flag burning judgement.

What makes America "better" and what men (and women) have fought for centuries over, is the RIGHT to speak out against our country. To not be arrested for opposing our leaders. But today we have reached a point where a Vietnam vet, who lost limbs in war, is accused of being unpatriotic just because he opposes a military action. Where people are not allowed to distinguish between supporting a war and supporting the men and women who serve. Where does the line get drawn?

I should have the right to speak my anger, show my anger as long as I am not harming you or being a direct threat to the security of the country or another person. Burning a flag is no more a threat to our country than burning all my pictures of my ex-boyfriend is a threat to him.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 05:58 PM
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I'm a conservative, redstater, moron, nazi, neocon or whatever else you want to call me and I love this country and served in the military and I don't want this.

People should have the right to express themselves in whatever way they want as long as it doesn't hurt someone else. It would make me sad and a bit angry to see someone burning the flag, but being disrespectful isn't against the law yet...



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 06:12 PM
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Proposition---

The people shall have the power to prohibit the legal and ethical desecration of the Constitution of the Untied States.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by Kriz_4

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001

Originally posted by Kriz_4
I actually find this highly amusing, all this fuss over a flag.

Oh well, just an opinion of course.


It goes a lot deeper than just a flag. It is called loss of personal freedom. How many freedoms are you willing to give up?


Not too sure what you are trying to say to me. Mind clarifying exactley what you mean by those statements?



So are the gun control laws currently in force in Britain. Though servants shall not own firearms.


I agree that more and more we are here for them rather than them here for us.

However on the firearms issue. You have to remember that 98ish percent of British people support these laws.



[edit on 23-6-2005 by Kriz_4]


What I am trying to say is that the flag to me is more than a piece of cloth. To me it represents freedom. The star spangler banner was written after a battle with the Brits and the sight of the flag in the morning meant that the Americans did not lose the battle and still possesed its freedom. Freedom of speech, freedom from the government penetrating into our lives.

Now the government is saying that you do not have the freedom to burn the flag, if you do we will jail you. I am not into losing my freedoms, I cherish them more than anything else. Without freedom what do you have?

I know my views here seem to be the opposite to each other but the are not. I will fight for your right to burn the flag but I might punch you for doing it. So you calling it just a flag does not resonate well with me.

If you are not from america you may not understand how I feel.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 07:14 PM
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cryptosa1001,
you wave your silly flag and jump with joy about Iraq

I will take advantage of the 2nd Amendment instead and support the Minute men of Arizona defending this nation's territorial integrity.
Bush may for political purposes want to call them vigilantes, but he is a miltary deserter so what would he know about the actual defense of this nation.

The minutemen are doing the most basic and fundamental job of a nation state - to defend its territorial borders from invasion, be it economic, cultural, or military.

What exactly has been acomplished in Iraq, by braveura and flag waving?

No WMDs have been aprehended,
But they lied about aluminum rocket tubes being magically used in centrifuges so they knew that going in.

It has managed to funnel Billions of virtually unaudited contracts to Haliburton.
Was that perhaps the point in the first place. I would not be surprised.

While the nation is being globally economically eroded and territorially invaded and the flag waving WIMPs in Washington strip that same flag of any meaning it is supposed to have.

Flag waving is for WIMPS, defending this nation's borders is for MEN.
.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 07:33 PM
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Slank, why are you attacking me on Iraq? If you think going to support the minutemen on the border will make you a man then you have a mis-configured notion of what makes a man.

BTW I fully support the minutemen so good luck to and try not to get yourself killed by Mexican drug smugglers.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 07:40 PM
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Well, if this passes can we still burn Israeli Flags? I bet you can burn all the Iranian and Chinese Flags you like after this passes, and there in lies the danger of this legislation. It isn't about burning the flag at all, while yes, that's what it says, it is about creating and maintaining nationalism. Why do think they made you stand up and say the pledge of Alliegance every day at school, it wasn't because they liked to hear you say it...
Some one here earlier asked a damned good question, which is "What's next?"
Yes the flag is a symbol, but with two generations of a Nazi Supporting family sitting in the white house, and our legislature taking money from coporations to shape our policy, our government lying to us to start wars to send our kids off to, saying they have the right to take our property if is suits them, then what in the hell has it become a symbol of?

To be perfectly honest, if I buy the flag with my federal reserve jokes, er notes, and I burn it on my property, then they can go to hell. The same folks that died for that flag, died for my right to wipe my arse with it if I CHOOSE to.

Maybe we need to start burning these...




posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 07:52 PM
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cryptosa1001,

I am attacking the US congress and Whitehouse who support this manipulation of symbols while r*ping them of all meaning.

And silly, i repeat silly people who think the symbol, who's meaning can be changed, is more important than the reality behind it.

The meaning of the flag changes with each passing instant. If you really support the facts behind it, you know torn, tattered, burning or only in the minds of people it will be a light that shines to the ends of the Universe instead of simply a piece of asswipe for corporate America and its prostitutes in Washington.

While you worry about a symbol, you forget about the reality behind that symbol and therefore its meaning.

My father was someone who took action when action seemed to make sense.
Guarding our southern border is a necessary task for this nation, if the government is squanding money on Haliburton in Iraq instead of funding the border patrol,

it is stupid.

It is unpatriotic.

It is treasonous.
.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by twitchy



Indeed, and aside from the chinese made printer cartridges, and korean made printer, and god knows where made computer parts, the Print out of that symbol of evil on paper could actually be concidered "MADE IN AMERICA" unlike 98% of all US flags which are MADE IN CHINA

Thats right ignorant patriots, ever single flag you "defend", ever single flag you see, may as well be a huge "MADE IN CHINA" stamp. Its no longer an "american symbol", its a product of a foreign regime, and you buy into it like fools.

People just don't get it.
When someone is arrested in the united states, like say the 750,000 per year for cannabis, that flag becomes a to focus for hate. When the patriot act is passed, again that flag becomes the symbol of the regime with ill concern for public safety and privacy. When seven million people are out of work, that flag is the symbol of their poverty, you know because who has the money and the power?
Those who hide behind that flag and the armed forces they control.

The fact that this law has been in concideration for 16 years, shows that our government has little concern for anything of importance. They could have gone one step further protecting our environment and food supply, they did not. They could have gone one step further encouraging our economy, they did not. 160 people die on American roads every day, how many flags are burned in this country each year? I bet its less than 50.

You realise with current military budget, just one years worth, every American could be set up with over a million dollar each? The next year they could all be enrolled in universities to get doctorates.
The next year they could all own mansions.

What do we have instead? Over 40% without insurance, some massive amount living one paycheck away from poverty. 2.2 Million in Prison and over 7 million on parole, fines, or some other "correctional" action.

Thats what the so called "American" flag looks like to me.

My symbol of freedom is a cannabis plant, and this country is at war with that, so they are at war with my freedom. A plant is a living thing, a flag is not. My plant can make a flag, a flag cannot.
My symbol can bring comfort to the sick, a flag can not. My symbol can use to build homes, a flag can not. My symbol cleans the air and gives humans life, flags do not.

I burn my symbol of freedom as a declartion of my freedom.



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