It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

NEWS: The House Approves Anti-Flag Burning Amendment

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 05:48 PM
link   
By a vote of 286 to 130, the House of Representatives today passed an amendment to the constituition that would prohibit the burning of an American flag. The senate vote is likely to be alot closer, with a pre-vote consensus showing that the exact number of senators needed to defeat the bill, 34, are going to vote it down. Supporters of the amendment have suggested that increased public support is a consequence of the 9/11 attacks.
 



www.washingtonpost.com
But an AP survey Wednesday found 34 senators on record as opposing the amendment _ the exact number needed to defeat it, barring a change in position. Democratic Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Ken Salazar of Colorado declined to state their positions Wednesday.

Critics accused the amendment's supporters of exploiting the attacks to trample the right to free speech.

"If the flag needs protection at all, it needs protection from members of Congress who value the symbol more than the freedoms that the flag represents." said Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., whose district includes the site of the former World Trade Center.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


How absurd. I understand the the flag is a symbol and as a symbol it is valued by a great many people, but come on already!! It's a piece of cloth!!!! It could be argued that due to the subjective nature of experience, it means different things to different people. To some people, it represents a failure of the "American Dream" and to them, it's better off being burned!!!

Let's also keep in mind that the burning of a flag, unless intentionally made to include such, does nothing to impact the lives of anyone else. So why should it matter whether or not someone burns it? This is putting to much credence into an action that is ultimately irrelevant.

If the senate passes the amendment, I may just burn a flag on principle alone.........

Related ATS Links
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 22-6-2005 by MemoryShock]




posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 10:00 AM
link   
.
The flag is a symbol.
It is supposed to have meaning(s).

Let's see, . . .

This is the same congress blowing 200 billion dollars on a war for WMDs that don't exist and not spending 1 billion to guard our southern border from the illegal invasion by about a million Latin Americans every year.

This is a political shell game

If they can get people all fired up about the symbol then the fact that they have stripped the flag of all its meaning may get overlooked by the less than intelligent.

The country is being burned, why not the flag too?

But America is populated with ignorant people who can only think in big simple symbols, like the big colorful letters on Sesame Street.
Politicians pander to this majority of stupid people.

Any thought of what America, the meaning behind the flag, is totally beyond their grasp.

Species Dodo Americanus - soon to be extinct due to extreme stupidity, will be subsumed by Mexicano Americanus.

[edit on 23-6-2005 by slank]



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 10:08 AM
link   

Originally posted by Slank
Species Dodo Americanus - soon to be extinct due to extreme stupidity, will be subsumed by Mexicano Americanus.

Thats gold, if I had a way above awards left you'd get one. Made me laugh.

Nationalistic protection and pride like this is a hallmark of Nazi Germany.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 10:17 AM
link   
Have a happy day in jail when your slave labor made in China flag accidentally burns on your birthday cake when your local commissar duly notes it. Perhaps they can have execution vans for debauching these sacred red chinese facsimiles. Come to think of it, what if you want to protest the fact that a flag is made in china by slave labor, so you burn it publically declaring your reasons? That will change nothing.

Amazingly flag burning is incredibly rare, but that does not matter when tampering with even a conservative court opinion regarding the first amendent. Once again the slippery slope is hanging by a thread. With future flag police wishing to justify their existence, no doubt many people will have the flag thrust upon them with subsequent sumptuary charges.

[edit on 23-6-2005 by SkipShipman]



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 10:30 AM
link   


Nationalistic protection and pride like this is a hallmark of Nazi Germany.


So are the gun control laws currently in force in Britain. Though servants shall not own firearms. I guess the whole civilized world is turning into nazi Germany.



But America is populated with ignorant people who can only think in big simple symbols, like the big colorful letters on Sesame Street.
Politicians pander to this majority of stupid people.

Any thought of what America, the meaning behind the flag, is totally beyond their grasp.

Species Dodo Americanus - soon to be extinct due to extreme stupidity, will be subsumed by Mexicano Americanus.


If Americans are soon to become extinct look for other countries populous to become extinct first since they are further down the stupidity ladder than most Americans.

I believe the Supreme Court over turned a law similar to this a few years ago.




Symbolic expression" is a phrase often used to describe expression that is mixed with elements of conduct. The Supreme Court has made clear in a series of cases that symbolic expression (or expressive conduct) may be protected by the First Amendment. Several of these cases have been highly controversial--perhaps none more so than Texas vs Johnson (1990) reversing the conviction of a man who expressed his strong displeasure with U. S. policy by burning an American flag.
Article



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 10:37 AM
link   
cryptorsa1001, I agree with you. Im British and I consider my government just as bad.

Gun control maybe a hallmark of Nazi Germany but its also seen fit to protect this populace from rampant gun crime. The fact that it helps corrupt governments oppress the people is also true and the corrupt governments should be our target, not the gun control laws. The puny weapons the NRA has secured your rights to own will do nothing against your countries military.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 10:39 AM
link   
This is absurd. And unconstitutional.

As far as i am concerned, if some moron wants to spend his own money on a flag, then burn it, cuz it makes him feel better to do so, then by all means, let them. I do not care. So long as they do not burn another person's flag. Thats their property.

Even if it is a symbol. When I served in the army, I did so to protect not only the rights of some people to wave a flag, but for others to burn it too.

If flag burning is outlawed, then everything and everyone who has ever fought for certain rights will have died in vain.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 10:42 AM
link   
.
cryptosa1001,

They have superior numbers and they don't waste time futzing around about some silly symbol. Now who really is the stupider of the two?

Which is more significant?
Nuts and Bolts of reality,
or confectionary symbols?

You choose.

Warning - answers may vary depending on IQ. We take no responsibility for less than estute answers. clause 4B subsection K. for further inquires see Hammond, Frank and Levin.
.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 11:03 AM
link   
Skady says exactly how I feel -- with one exception:

If the bill passes the Senate and is ratified by 34 states, although it will still (and always) be absurd, it will no longer be unconstitutional, which is one more reason why we need to stop this moronic stuff in its tracks.

I find it interesting that only two of the Articles of Amendment to the Constitution have actually diminished our rights instead of sustaining them (or else simply administrative cleanup): the 16th and 18th; and the 18th was later repealed by the 21st.

If we're going to do any Constitutional tinkering, I suggest we repeal the 16th Amendment before adding the 28th!



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 11:24 AM
link   
politics.abovetopsecret.com...'

read some more views on my post they moved to Politics



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 12:07 PM
link   


The puny weapons the NRA has secured your rights to own will do nothing against your countries military.


Are you sure about that? Look at the resistance in Iraq. Look to Vietnam for your answer to your statement. Ordinary household stuff can be turned into a bomb. The US military currently does not have enough forces to control American by force. The majority of US servicemen would go awol before they raised a hand against US citizens.

Slank, I have a 138 IQ so do not play your silly schoolyard games with me.
If you want to debate something than do it without throwing around insults, your views will be better recieved that way.

For the record I am totally against this bill since it violates the right to free speech. This has been tried several times before and failed.



The Flag Burning Amendment
This is the actual text of House Joint Resolution 33 -- A proposed Amendment to the United States Constitution allowing Congress to prohibit burning or otherwise desecrating the U.S. flag.
The proposed amendment was approved by the House of Representatives on June 24, 1999 in this 305-124 Roll Call Vote.
The amendment will be considered by the Senate later this summer. A 2/3 majority vote is required in both the House and Senate. The same amendment was approved by the House in both 1995 and 1997, but failed in the Senate by 4 votes in 1995 and was never considered by the Senate in 1997. (The Constitutional Amendment Process)

JOINT RESOLUTION
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States authorizing the Congress to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States.
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled (two-thirds of each House concurring therein),
SECTION 1. CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT.
The following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the Constitution when ratified by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years after the date of its submission for ratification:
`Article--
`The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States.'.
House Calendar No. 71
106th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. J. RES. 33
[Report No. 106-191]
JOINT RESOLUTION
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States authorizing the Congress to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States.

The Amendment Process
To become a part of the Constitution, an amendment must be approved by a 2/3 majority vote of both the U.S. House and Senate and then approved, or "ratified" by the legislatures of 3/4 (38) of the 50 States. The President of the United States cannot veto a Constitutional amendment.


Article



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 12:25 PM
link   
politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Fixing esdad's link......

I'm betraying my stance by writing on this, but I thought it was important that people realize that it is only a symbol......which seems to be the consensus on ATSNN.......not so in the link at the end of the first post....

...I was and still am shocked at the amount of people who can get so emotionally involved with a piece of fabric.......



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 01:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Are you sure about that? Look at the resistance in Iraq. Look to Vietnam for your answer to your statement. Ordinary household stuff can be turned into a bomb. The US military currently does not have enough forces to control American by force. The majority of US servicemen would go awol before they raised a hand against US citizens.

Their country is still occupied and their resistance has not changed anything. All they have done is inflict around 1,000 U.S casualties in 2 years.

Also if you expect your US military will lay down their arms instead of fighting against their compatriots then why do you need those weapons in the first place?


Originally posted by cryptorsa1001
Slank, I have a 138 IQ so do not play your silly schoolyard games with me.
If you want to debate something than do it without throwing around insults, your views will be better recieved that way.

Does that mean I should disregard your opinion because I have an I.Q of 144?



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 02:16 PM
link   


Does that mean I should disregard your opinion because I have an I.Q of 144?


Only at your own peril.


We keep our guns just in case. You never know if Hession soldiers are going to appear.

Your alright subz, I don't care what everyone else says about you.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 02:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by cryptorsa1001



Does that mean I should disregard your opinion because I have an I.Q of 144?


Only at your own peril.


We keep our guns just in case. You never know if Hession soldiers are going to appear.

Your alright subz, I don't care what everyone else says about you.

Thanks. Yeah I regret our spat over the boudoir antics of Bush and Cheney, for what its worth I shouldnt of said it.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 02:58 PM
link   
Its water under the bridge. The best friendship I ever had started with a fist fight.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 03:07 PM
link   
"The American Flag is a symbol and I leave symbols to the 'symbol minded'." - George Carlin

That quote has always stuck with me and I felt it was relevent here. I'm not one to burn the American flag but I don't support a law that would ban flag burning. The buring of the flag is in itself, symbolic. One could use it as a non-verbal way of showing distaste for U.S. policies and the like. What's next, arresting those who verbally express distaste for the US? Doubtfull, but still....this law itself is un-american.

"While I do not agree with what you say I will defend to the death your right to say it." Peter Griffin, Family Guy



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 03:28 PM
link   
Sorry kiddies, this is just mental masturbation for the red state meat eaters. The current administration has been getting absolutely hammered, by absolutely everyone. So, they've simply picked an issue that classically defines high minded liberal ethics versus reactionary conservative politics.

Liberals don't want to burn flags, but it's the principle of the matter - the freedom OF the flag, means the inherent freedom to BURN the flag.

I know, it's complicated for some, especially the GET R DUN crowd, that anybody would actually want to practically apply our freedoms in such an obviously offensive manner. We don't exactly have to stand in front of tanks to get a point across.

It's unpopular for Democrats, and signals to me a kind of seedy desperation on the GOP's part. But it's either that, or a "English as a first Language" ammendment. However, I fully expect the bloody thing to pass, because I'm not sure the Democrats are publically taking the bate.

What with the recent Terri Sciavo debacle, the abortive attempts to murder Big Bird failing dismally, social security once again floundering, John Bolton still being tied up, and the Red on Red violence within the GOP, I'd say things are going catastrophically well for the President, and Mr. Rove...



[edit on 23-6-2005 by brimstone735]



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 03:34 PM
link   
Absolutely genius.

I consider myself to be conservative, however, this pushes the limit in my book. Having myself fought for the right of the people here back in the 'states, I see this in a few ways.

Does this not mean that those who have perished to protect those who love America, despise America, love capitalism, hate capitalism, etc etc. have died in vain? It seems so.

My question to all who seem so opposed to the "neocons" who sit in Washington is this:

Why, instead of actually going to Washington and protesting, or gathering in numbers and petition your local Congressman or Senate representative to do something, you sit behind your computer and type about it?

If you want your voices to be heard, then by God, go get them heard. Democracy still exists, despite what the conspiracy theorists may claim!

-wD



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 03:58 PM
link   
"Just a symbol"?..okay...

So there won't be any problem with me and a few friends publicly buring a few "pink triangle" signs? Or the Mexican flag?


*awaits the double-standard firestorm*







 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join