Is it not ironic that the flag is a symbol for liberty and freedom? Apparently the symbol is more important than the meaning. Why don't we just remove the 1st amendment completely?

I just think this is pointless, especially when there are so many other more important problems facing our nation. Washington is full of clowns.

I hope the senate uses some common sense dealing with this nonimportant issue. I have a feeling that anyone who doesn't vote for this ammendmant will be branded by their opponents as unpatriotic or obstructionists, that's how Washington works now. Pure insanity, and I'm so sick and tired of it.

If this is passed it will be interesting to see what the punishment for desecrating a piece of cloth will be. Jail time?



[edit on 6/22/2005 by Lecky]

What's interesting is that the ammendment to the ammendment states that congress can choose to ban flag burning, it doesn't actually make it illegal.

However, it seems it will not be as easy to change as one would like, can we will most likely be lighting joints with flags before it gets passed.

That was intentional. Any modification to our constitution makes that the absloute law of the land, superceeding even the judicial branch. If this takes place, the founding fathers wanted to make sure there was a very large concensus on the issue.

If this passes the senate, be ready to see something on your next ballot, and vote what you believe to be right! You can make a difference!

Flag burning is a form of peaceful protesting. Care to know other countries where flag burning is illegal?

China
North Korea
Vietnam
Iraq (before our illegal invasion)
Iran
Cuba
United States (soon to be)

We are on the right track America!

What's the official protocol for retiring old flags? I believe it is burning.

This ammendment just screams stupid. Personally, I think it's just a political trap set up by morons in Washington, it's a way to round up the naysayers and brand them unpatriotic to the general public.

[edit on 6/22/2005 by Lecky]

The burning of the American flag is one of the rights given to us by our first amendment of the constitution.

Our nation is supposed to evolve with times undermining our constitution or changing it with the excused of giving protection to a symbol is not the right thing to do.

It is wrong and another way to get our constitution change.

Burning the Flag is seen by many war veterans as a serious offense because they feel that is the symbol of the nation that they have fought under to protect, but still is just a symbol.

The protection is not for the flag but for the soil and constitutional rights where our nation was founded under.

I find a more serious offense if our rights are undermined, for a symbol.

Most Americans believe that the flag use or abuse should be a matter of personal choice, occurs we always are going to see the people that in their views desecration of the flag is as serious as desecration of the bible because both of the items are considered the bases of our nation one freedom of religion and the other one our nations identification.

While it seems for Americans as outrageous to see another Americans burn the flag, taking our this right or change the constitution first amendment will indeed be the beginning of taking away our first amendment rights and uprooting the same values that our nation was build for it and what so many has died fighting in the name of our nation freedom in foreign soils.

Be very aware people it may be a hidden agenda behind the mere proposal of protectiong our national symbol.



[edit on 22-6-2005 by marg6043]

Originally posted by kenshiro2012
This has passed the house at least twice before but it could not get the 2/3rd's vote in the senate. I sincerely hope that it does this time.

It'll probably get filibustered!

Gracious, that was funny on so many levels...

Glad to see our freesoms are being guarded so valiantly by the conservative elites in this time of darkness.

And then people wonder why conservatives are compared to Nazis...

The sad thing is until this moment I never considered burning a flag.
Now I'm not so sure...
Now I might just feel the need take advantage of my freedoms before I lose them.
If this passes then its only a matter of time before all dissent is banned.

Forget burning flags. Why don't we just burn the Constitution? Seems that the First Amendment is already in flames...

While I mourn for our ever diminishing First Amendment rights, this is a Republican political play. Regardless of how the vote goes (which it will probably come up just short of the 67 votes needed), this is a win-win for Republicans because everyone who votes no will be branded as a "flag-burning traitor" come the 2006 midterm election. Can't wait for the ads that say "Hillary Clinton supports flag burning..."

Even if it does pass, 2/3rds of the states have to ratify it within 7 years in order for the law to become an amendment. Considering these hurdles, I doubt this will become an amendment this time around.

Obviously, burning flags are the least of our problems right now. With serious issues such as rising oil prices, more than 25% of the population living without health insurance and in poverty, the Downing Street memo, a government that condones torture, nukes in North Korea, serious unanswered questions about 9/11, and religious fanatics and corporate shills running the country, I'd say that flag-burning ranks up there with boys kissing as a non-issue designed to get people riled up.

Instead of Congress actually solving real problems, look for wedge issues like this one to distract and divide the public over the next 18 months. The 2006 elections are right around the corner and Republicans need us all to forget that they have been running the country into the ground for 5 long years.

kenshiro says:

I have a hard time believing that our court systems will protect the desecration of the flag which is a symbol of our country but dissallow the desecration of the cross (cross burning) which is a symbol of a religion.

Actually, Ken, you're sort of comparing apples and oranges. Cross burning per se is not against the law, it is the cross-burning which is a part of the KKK rituals, and that was banned because it is inciteful to violence agains Blacks.

To be honest, I don't think either of those should be against the law. if a bunch of green-teeth gomers want to prance about on their property, wear white sheets, burn a cross, and shout "Niggar! Niggar!" all night, they should have the right to do so. I mean, I wouldn't have anything to do with such losers, any more than I'd have anything to do with those fools and knaves who buy an American flag and go out and burn it.

As a Vietnam-era veteran, flag-burning angers me incredibly, partially because I don't believe in the politics of people who would do such a thing. But the very fact that it angers me speaks to its power as a political statement, which is why it must be allowed.

Originally posted by esdad71
The proposed one-line amendment to the Constitution reads, "The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States."

physical desecration of the flag... that'll be a can of worms. Let us count the ways people "desecrate" the flag accidentally.

Shortly after arriving in Saudi Arabia, I hung my flag in my area and our Sgt. Major went off. He demanded I take it down and hang it the right way. I didn't even know it was hanging wrong.

If they pass this thing, they better start teaching flag etiquette in school.

[edit on 6/23/05 by EastCoastKid]

I am going to sit down and let the neighbors go on each other necks on how to show their object of their patriotism and see who accused who of desecrating the flag.

Right now everybody likes to display their flags in their from yards, but most of them are forgotten to the inclement of the weather and forgotten.

That will constituted a desecration of the flag.

People like others has mention here if you think this is about the flag your are going to get a crude awakening, this about our first amendment and how to tamper with it.

There's a company which has an office in the building I work in that produces "USA stuff" -- flags, little peely window sticker thingys, party favors, red white and blue party poppers, etc.

The flag they have in front of their enterance is in such terrible shape! It's faded, it's probably only got 12 or 11 stripes left, and bits and pieces are falling off. It looks terrible, and they have all this other USA stuff! Replace your frickin' flag!!!

And then there's the truckers who put up flags after 9-11 and have yet to change them. You know, having a nasty, beat up, torn flag which hasn't seen combat attached to your viehicle makes a very powerful statement contrary to the one you originally meant to make!

Throw those folks in flag jail immediately!

This is nothing but a direct assault on the 1st Ammendment. As abhorent as I think burning the flag (in protest) is, I am more offended at this direct assault on our freedom of expression.

I thought that list of other countries w/the same rules is quite telling. Is that truly the road we wish to go down?

While it bothers me to see people burn Old Glory, I recognize that it's part of freedom of speech.

I'm thinking if enough Americans burned flags, maybe people would start asking why they're doing it, and maybe some sheeple would wake up.

BTW whoever said conservatives are compared to Nazis--you mean neo-cons. I'm a true conservative. I'm for states' rights.

I'm a true patriot in that I care for this country. That's why I didn't vote for any known NWO shills...like Bush, and Kerry....

Originally posted by Amethyst
BTW whoever said conservatives are compared to Nazis--you mean neo-cons. I'm a true conservative. I'm for states' rights.

Amen to that.

Folks who support this bunch of a-holes are PSEUDO-Republicans and very confused Democrats.

My 2 cents on this,
I have no problem with them turning this down. It is technically a volation of a person freedom of speech. I am also a war Vet, and to me desecration of the flag is a horrendous act. Which is why I thought it was a wonderful move by our goverment a few years ago which caps the maximum penalty to $25 to be applied to someone who hits another for desecrating the flag. I have that much in my pocket and will gladly pay the fine

Maybe instead of burning the flag just hang it upside-down. This country *is* in distress after all, IMO, with the neo-cons running roughshod over our rights.

America--land of the free IN NAME ONLY.

Glad to see ATS has a discussion on this topic. I heard them mention it on TV
a few weeks ago and thought, "What? Again?"

The flag-burning amendment had its big heyday in the '80's, during Reagan's
Presidency, and it was my first experience of an issue being used as a smoke-
screen to keep people from looking at something big that was going down...in
this case, the beginnings of Iran-Contra. For the most part, it worked, too. I'm
not saying that it was the first such instance, just that it is the first one I remember, and of course, my memory only goes back so far. From then on,
every time conservatives have brought up the flag-burning amendment, as they
have several times over the years, I always wonder what it is they are trying to
divert our attention away from.

If anyone really wants to talk about flag desecration, I think we have seen more of it in the years since 9/11 than at any other time I am aware of...and
ironically enough, much of it by the people who are supposedly its greatest
defenders! Bush and Co. have desecrated the flag more than anybody by their actions since getting into power. A lot of the patriotic tchoskes that have been sold in the wake of 9/11 are actually disrespectful...I'm sure many
people, maybe including some of us, bought them thinking they were honoring America.

We're going to need an awfully big jail to hold all the flag desecrators...