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New German Supercav Torpedo!

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posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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www.prosieben.de...


draw ing of the supercav thingy:


NEW GERMAN SUPERCAV TORPEDO!

The German Navy has developed a highly advanced new supercavitating torpedo known as the ‘Barracuda’. Built by Diehl BGT Defence, the Barracuda travels at over 800km/h, faster than the Shkval, and, crucially, is steerable as well!

Already having underdone a whole range of successful tests, the designers of Barracuda boast that its capabilities are unmatched, claiming the design is 10 years ahead of American and Russian efforts. It is claimed the Barracuda is maneuverable enough even to home in on, and knock out an incoming Shkval!

You can read a full article about supercavitation, that includes a write up and pictures of the Barracuda, as well as pictures from the world of Deep Angel in the launch issue of ‘Wunderwelt Wissen’ magazine.

As Robert Kulinsky of American Naval Undersea Warfare Center (NUWC) states in the article - we stand today where once aircraft designers stood after the first flight of the Wright Brothers... at the forefront of a oncoming revolution.

www.deepangel.com...


german source:


Supertorpedo - made in Germany
von Ronald Rattmann

Ein neuer Torpedo, erdacht von deutschen Ingenieuren, erreicht bis zu 800 Kilometer in der Stunde – und könnte die Unterwasserkriegsführung für immer verändern.

Der Krieg unter Wasser ist bis heute eine nervenzerfetzende Angelegenheit. Eingeschlossen in eine Röhre aus Stahl tief unter dem Meeresspiegel liefern sich die Besatzungen und Offiziere gegnerischer U-Boote ein mitunter – zumindest für eine Partei – tödliches Katz-und-Maus-Spiel. Anders als im letzten Weltkrieg, als die Tauchboote verfeindeter Nationen sich mit zumeist ungesteuerten Torpedos bekämpften, sind die von heute hoch komplizierte Waffensysteme, die sich ihr Ziel selbst suchen.

Eines aber haben die konventionellen Torpedos noch immer mit ihren Vorgängern von einst gemeinsam: Sie sind sehr langsam und erlauben dem Angegriffenen das Einleiten von geeigneten Gegenmaßnahmen.

Etwa 100 Kilometer in der Stunde sind die herkömmlichen submarinen Todesbote schnell. Doch bereits in den frühen 1990er Jahren schreckte eine Meldung die NATO-Strategen auf, dass Russland, das gerade die Fesseln des Kommunismus abgeschüttelt hatte, ein neues Unterwasser-Waffensystem entwickelt haben sollte, dessen Projektile bis zu 350 Kilometer pro Stunde schaffen könnten. Dieser Waffe hatten die westlichen Bündnispartner keine Abwehr und auch nichts Gleichwertiges entgegenzusetzen.

1999 wurde der Albtraum auf der internationalen Waffenausstellung in Abu Dhabi zur schrecklichen Wahrheit: Mit dem Shkval (russisch für Sturmböe) hatten die Russen einen Torpedo entwickelt, der eine revolutionäre Antriebstechnik verwandte und in China und im Iran eifrige Abnehmer fand. Das tragische Unglück des russichen Unterseebootes Kursk, dem über 100 Menschen zum Opfer fielen, wurde auf die frühezeitige Zündung des Raketenantriebs eines solchen Hochgeschwindigkeitstorpedos zurückgeführt.

Ein simples Prinzip

Aber wie errecht der Shkval diese hohe Geschwindigkeit? Ganz einfach, indem es die Berührung mit dem umströmenden Wasser fast ganz vermeidet, eine Art Luftkissenboot für den Einsatz unter Wasser.

Das Prinzip dieser Technologie geht zurück auf Sir Isaac Newton, der in seinen Principiae Mathematicae 1687 schrieb, dass der Druck an der Außenhaut eines bewegten schwimmenden Körpers sinkt. Ab einer Geschwindigkeit von 180 Kilometer pro Stunde ergibt sich daraus ein Phänomen, das sich Superkavitation nennt: Es bildet sich eine Blase, die den Körper völlig umschließen könnte.

Mikhail Merkulov, ein Ingenieur und Waffentechniker aus Russland, konnte der Parteiführung schon in den 1970er Jahren einen Torpedo präsentieren, der in einem Rohr auf 180 km/h beschleunigt wurde und sich somit in einer Kavitationsblase reibungsfrei bewegte, aus der nur noch die Spitze des Geschosses hervorragte, die die Bildung der Blase noch zusätzlich unterstützte. Somit war eine Geschwindigkeit von 350 km/h erreichbar.

Nach dem Verlassen des Rohrs zündete dann ein Raketenantrieb und beschleunigte das acht Meter lange und 2,7 Tonnen schwere Monstrum auf die gewünschte Endgeschwindigkeit. Nachteil der Waffe: Einmal abgeschossen, konnte die Schussrichtung nicht mehr korrigiert werden, der Shkval war nicht lenkbar und der speziell konstruierte Raketenantrieb verschlang eine gewaltige Menge Energie.

Dennoch war den Auftraggebern im Kreml die Geschwindigkeit wichtiger, die Produktion in großen Stückzahlen lief an. Um die Trefferungenauigkeit auszugleichen, plante man sogar die Bestückung mit nuklearen Gefechtsköpfen, die bloß in relativer Nähe des Ziels explodieren müssen, um den Gegner zu vernichten.

Aber der neue deutsche Supertorpedo mit dem bissigen Namen Barracuda stellt die russische Sturmböe weit in den Schatten. Im Mai 2005 wurde das Meisterstück aus den Werkstätten der deutschen Firmen Diehl BGT Defence, Atlas Elektronik und tms zum ersten Mal auf einer Messe präsentiert.

Nicht nur, dass der neue Unterwasserflieger Geschwindigkeiten von nicht weniger als 800 Kilometer pro Stunde erreicht, nein, die neue Wunderwaffe ist sogar lenkbar, was durch eine bewegliche Spitze erreicht wird, die aus der Superkavitationsblase vorne herausragt. Eine Waffe nicht nur für den Angriff – durch die Lenkbarkeit könnte der Barracuda aufgrund seiner höheren Geschwindigkeit dazu benutzt werden, um Waffensysteme vom Typ des Shkval abzuwehren.

Eine Technik auch für bemannte Unterseeboote? Nicht in absehbarer Zeit, noch ist der Energieaufwand für diese Art der Fortbewegung im Größenmaßstab bemannter Tauchfahrzeuge viel zu hoch. In ferner Zukunft könnte das aber durchaus eine Option sein, denn diese Entwicklung steht erst am Anfang, vergleichbar dem Durchbruch der Gebrüder Wright in der Fliegerei. Wer träumte damals schon von Flugzeugen in der Dimension eines A380 von Überschallfügen über den Atlantik?

freenet.meome.de...







The russian weapon-technican and enginier Mikhail Merkulov began at the start of the 60's his work at the Institut of Hydrodynamics (NII-24) in Kiev. Financed from Moskow he should develop a new submarine-weapon. The project was strong secret but there where rumours about this also in Washington. But there the expert where not interested: They where shure that such a project would have no success at almost all certainties.

For almost twenty years Merkulov and his colleagues worked on the construction on the new weapon. [....] At the end of the 70s he could show the party leadership a prototype [...] If official statments can be believed, the western secret services had no idea, how successfully the scientists in Kiev had worked as the existence of 'Shkval' came to known after the end of the Soviet Union. A commercial video is showing the new torpedo in action.... [....].

.... A group of German scientist and enginiers know this video, but they don't share the astonishment. They tinker for some long time now on a likewise technology. Not only the Soviet Union, but also the West has a long and changing history of research in supercavitation. Even to the time of the second world war there where the first theroretical and experimental thoughts about using the phenomenon of cavitation for underwater-weapons. Also after the war there was intensive research in Germany, Italy, Great Britain and USA and there where even all in all 15 patents reported internationaly. But in the 60's technical (un)possibilities was still to high and so the Pentagon decided for other technologies. Research in Supercavitation got on the side for some time. As the us-scientist Leonard Greiner published a collected work of all scientific articles about the topic in 1967 nobody cared in Washington. Behind the 'Iron Curtain' things where different. In the middle of the Cold War the book found its way over some shadowy paths to Institut for Hydrodynamics in Kiev. The collected and perfect documented research results convinced the scientist there to be on the right path. This at least is what the the american business-man Edmond Pope wants to have found out. Pope was a former member of the secret service of the navy. In the year 2000 he had tried in Russia without success to get his hands on the blueprints of the "Shkval". He was detected and instantly arrested and convicted because of espionage in Moskow - but surprisingly amnestied shortly afterwards. "Severally russian scientist with whom I have spoken", he says today, "had copies of the book. They called it their bible during the research and development of new torpedos."

Since the End of the 70s there was also research in Germany on such weapon-systems.... But unlike the "Shkval", - the "Barracuda", how the project was called - would be designed as a intercepting weapon.



So whats your opinion about the new development?




[edit on 22-6-2005 by Wodan]

[edit on 22-6-2005 by Wodan]
*Fixed caps lock title*


[edit on 22-6-2005 by dbates]




posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 10:37 AM
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have u read Joe Buff's books on submarine warfare? well it looks like we may go to war against Germany. its still possible
. but in anicase in the future all torpedoes maybe 200 plus knots, but right now they still need to do with the range that it needs.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 11:24 AM
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A new BUff book, Seas of Crises is coming out soon. I dont exactly know when.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by benedict arnold
A new BUff book, Seas of Crises is coming out soon. I dont exactly know when.


thanks man, i appreciate the information, its probably on Amazon which updates wat books coming out. i wonder wat the next plot is goin to be. im surprise Buff didnt introduce America fast torpedoes instead of keep using the mark 48 torps. all he had was improved torps. but nothing new.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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sorry dbates, just c&p'ed "NEW GERMAN SUPERCAV TORPEDO!", from the article...



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 03:41 PM
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If the Germans build it, you can be sure of one thing...........it will hit whatever you fire it at.

The Mk.48 ADCAP just went the way of the dinosaur.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 04:29 PM
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Germans as a whole have produced many ingenius and magnificent minds- engineering is their heart of expertise.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 05:11 PM
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The story/article/claim is bogus.

The manufacturer is alleged to be Diehl BGT Defence GmbH & Co. KG (DBD), as per the DeepAngel article linked by Wodan.

The closest relation found of Diehl BGT Defence GmbH & Co. KG (DBD) dealings with torpedoes is here, and guess what? No mention of such a supercavitating torpedo or anything mentioning "Barracuda".

One very credible naval technology source that I utilize from time to time has no mention of such, as well.
Be my guest; their Industry News Releases/archives go as far back as April 2001. No mention or declaration of the "new" German supercavitating torpedo. Interesting, no?

Another source I use from time to time and does updates as they occur also has nothing mentioning the German "Barracuda" supercavitating torpedo.
Background On Supercavitation Torpedos: Last Update was Feb 19, 2005.

Personally and IMHO, till someone produces a naval industry news release, the manufacturer's news release, or a defense/military analysis [FAS, Globalsecurity, etc., etc.], the story and claim remains bogus to me.







seekerof

[edit on 22-6-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 05:31 PM
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I searched around a few german sites and found out that the torpedo is not even officialy announced to public...its more some information that leaked out of the cooperation.

No wonder there is no official reference...so either the torpedo is ready and not announced so far or its close to a working protoype and someone wasnt able to be quiet.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 05:33 PM
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Found this...but its in german sorry maybe i will translate it later its really late here already


www.prosieben.de... tent/images/04_lifestyle_magazine/wunderwelt_wissen/WW_Torpedo_3.PDF



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 04:25 AM
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some pics of the US research into supercav projectiles that i mentioned in the last thread. These are the ones that broke the sound barrier underwater.
(taken from 'High-speed imaging of supercavitating underwater projectiles', J.D.Hrubes, Experiments in fluids, vol. 30, (2001). )






[edit on 23-6-2005 by paperplane_uk]



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 09:36 AM
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I doubt that it really exists the barrucade is a rather strange name for something from germany as there are no barracudas here aswell as what the previous links said.
For now it seems that russia is still ahead at super cavitating tech.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 10:44 AM
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That 30mm projectile broke the sound barrier underwater? I think the speed of sound underwater is 5 times faster than in the air.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 11:31 AM
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Here ya go, WestPoint:

Caption:
SUPERSONIC BULLET. In 1997 a research team at the Naval Undersea Warfare Center Division Newport in Rhode Island demonstrated the fully submerged launch of a supercavitating projectile with a muzzle velocity of 1,549 meters per second, which exceeds the speed of sound in water.
Background On Supercavitation Torpedos






seekerof



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 03:51 PM
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I'm surprised it took so long actually, the technology (at least that shown in the German concept) is little more than that used in the bulbous bow bullets on a ships to create a self propogating shock that keeps sluggish/turbulent boundary layer from building up around the front of the hull. Saves about 20% of fuel costs (or extends ranges about 20%, however you want to look at it).

In this case the low pressure zone behind the 'radish' probably both stabilizes and 'sucks ahead' the weapon (while potentially leaving more room for a seeker), making the overall 'bubble' (envelope sheath) over the weapon much smaller and more efficient while leaving more options to 'stick an oar in the water' and turn the entire sheath+weapon rather than risk collapsing the bubble.

In any case, it sure makes a hash of the Freidmans and Polmars out there who would have every ship able to submerge 'for stealth and munition avoidance reasons'. Even as it makes a 1.5-2 billion dollar investment (and 125-200 men) in an SSN a relatively worthless idea.

Which only goes to follow what I've been saying for /years/, namely that, especially now that we have useful AIP alternatives, even the -potential- of dumping a nuclear reactor inshore/littoral is _dumb_. Instead, we should be looking at 20-30 person submarines (three combat shift crew/captain teams and a support crew, effectively) as weapons cabinets _only_.

With paired hunting dog UUV robots able to use Supercavitation and Yankee Search modes to sprint-drift ahead of the principle and FORCE the threat to deal with them. RSRD is a moronic game of blind mans bluff and pint the tail on the donkey, played with chainsaws. All emergency training aside, there is no way to save a boat from a major event that puts the sea into ANY ONE of the main compartments. And now we have effectively proven that there is equally no means of seeing the shooter before eating the bullet that holes you.

What this means is that you treat the (presumably non-cavitationable due to total area and length) 'mothership' as a spider at the center of a ring of buoy sensors and weapons.

Much like the US Army's concept of an AHM (anti helicopter mine) or indeed the USN's formerly fielded CAPTOR program. The RANGE as much as sound signature reduction between the predeployed (possibly swimout) sensor-weapon encapsulates then acting as a trip wire system.

Other questions come to mind. The USN has effectively destroyed airborne ASW as a part of the battlegroup. We still have Orions (when they can get there) but we have NO organic ability to put multiple lines of sonobuoys out in front of an ops steaming CVSF.

That can only mean three things:

1. With systems like April Showers (IIRR) and Magic Lantern we have finally made the oceans completely transparent to blue light LIDAR. Portable, rapid lay, mini-SOSUS being another option.

2. Subs now run so deep and so quiet that we cannot reliably detect them before they achieve AShM launch distances (over the horizon, using commercial EOS as much as military ROR/EOR for cue).

3. The submarine threat is in such decline, world wide, that the money's need to be spent elsewhere.

I'm hoping that it's more a case of 1 than anything because it theoretically assumes we can sanitize an entire sea basin and then use a fighter aircraft to play '400mph to 400nm' in comparison with the short ranging torpedo. Unfortunately, even the improved VLS-ASROC is not much more than a 10-15nm, inner zone, defender and the 20nm SUBROC and 40nm ASW-SOW options are long gone but another option exists in the ARRMD/Fast Hawk type aeroballistic cruise. Especially if a bussed munition can be made small enough not to need a warhead or extensive range (now we are talking Mach 8 and 800nm vs. 800kmh and 120km).

In terms of that inner zone, we may also have some signficant advantages. An underwater extendable turret may allow the ship to /shoot back/, much like a CIWS. And for fixed zones, a combination of geosurvey/tsunami detection and oilspill cleanup technologies might yields a 'lassou pen' system around a battle groups operating area which detected the incoming (large) pressure pulse of the munition before detonating a line charge which destabilized the SC bubble.

We have already tried this 'wall of water' defense against sea skimming AShM with long cables dragged out from the sides of ship on minesweeping type towfish. It worked, albeit with limited effects for higher altitudes. But against a submerged threat the incompressibility theory really magnifies the hydrohammer effect to some depth I would think.

Of course it's not going to work if you are in rough seas or running 10-20 knot WOD carrier ops but particularly inshore for amphib ops or STOVL mode carriers, it might provide a reasonable surety that is safer and more effective than mining because it covers more area with 'one big loop' and is operationally sufficiently below max-draft of the vessels as to never interfere with surface operations.

In any case, the REAL way to beat submarines is to increase the effective search footprint that they must cover to find a carrier. And, short of hypersonics in a pint jar, the best way to do that is to move towards JUCAS /in a hurry/. So that a ship operating at the top of the Arab Sea (or 400 miles in the lee of Taiwan or the Kuriles) can put robots over Baghdad, Kandahar, Changsha or Pyongyang without ever coming into the footprint of enemy ASST counter targeting. Pilots are _dead weight_ and their obsession with 'fighter mission' performance (afterburner, supersonic inlets, big radar, big canopy etc. etc.) is a further lead anchor on systems which, in the X-45CN, will use approximately 10-12,000lbs of gas to fly 1,100nm and _sit there_ for 2hrs.

Not even the high and mighty JSF can do that.

And until the Chinese or Indians or Russians or EU develop something like ROTHR and a guided Theater Ballistic Missile (to cut the flyout times TLE modifier) it -should- be enough to simply increase the 'big blue void' effect while our own low-value boats try to contain any sub threat as it sorties out from chokelane offsets.


KPl.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by tomcat ha
I doubt that it really exists the barrucade is a rather strange name for something from germany as there are no barracudas here aswell as what the previous links said.


Well, if you could find me one wild-living Tiger or Leopard or Gepard (cheetah) in Germany, I might consider your point to be valid...



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 05:49 AM
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-asdfjaskdflajsd----
doublepost

[edit on 24-6-2005 by Wodan]



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 05:50 AM
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And is the see hake near the german coast?
Seehecht(see hake) is the predecessor of Barracuda



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 05:55 AM
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Originally posted by Lonestar24

Originally posted by tomcat ha
I doubt that it really exists the barrucade is a rather strange name for something from germany as there are no barracudas here aswell as what the previous links said.


Well, if you could find me one wild-living Tiger or Leopard or Gepard (cheetah) in Germany, I might consider your point to be valid...


Dont forget the new IFV Puma, or the armoured humvee equivalent Dingo and Dingo II, or the sapper vehicle Büffel (buffalo), or the sapper vehicle Biber (beaver), or the Jaguar tank-hunter or the Skorpion (scorpion) mine-laying vehicle, or the Elefant (elephant) heavy truck, or the Mungo armoured personell carrier, .....



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 06:26 AM
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Lonestar and Wodan, yeah, I guess Germany does not have cheetah or elephants or puma, etc., etc., but amusingly, I suppose both of you forgot that Germany held colonies in Africa? You know, the same Africa that have those animals...


Lets keep this on topic, please.





seekerof



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