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Where were the doctors at Abu Ghraib?

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posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 04:55 AM
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When Dr. Steven Miles first saw the news photos of American guards abusing Iraqi prisoners last year, he couldn't help wondering one thing: Where were the doctors?



Surely, he thought, there was a medical staff at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad. Somebody must have seen the bruises and treated the injuries that the prisoners had suffered. So why didn't they speak up?

Miles argues that health professionals turned a blind eye, or worse, to the torture and deaths of some of their patients. "These health professionals could have protested," he said. Instead, "the medical system here became one of the professional arms of a torturing society."

His allegations -- first published in a medical journal last summer -- have infuriated the Pentagon. "We have no evidence that military medical personnel collaborated with interrogators or guards accused or suspected of detainee abuse, or condoned abusive behavior," said James Turner, a spokesman for the Defense Department in Washington.

More than a year ago, Miles began hunting for information on the Abu Ghraib scandal on the Internet. He found thousands of government documents on the scandal -- many of them from the military's own investigations -- that had been posted on websites by the Department of Defense and watchdog groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union.

His first article, in the British medical journal Lancet in August, created something of an international sensation. He reported that doctors had falsified the death certificates of some of the detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan. He wrote that they had written off suspicious deaths as natural ones -- in one case, attributing a man's death to a heart attack, even though he died in a coma with skull fractures and burns on his feet. Another death certificate said that a prisoner had died of "natural causes" in his sleep -- although the Pentagon later found that he was beaten to death. Beyond that, Miles wrote, evidence showed that doctors had helped design the "psychologically and physically coercive" interrogation techniques that violated the Geneva Conventions.

So the idea of American involvement in torture holds a special horror for Miles, who also teaches medical ethics. "Torture is prohibited for all, but health professionals serve in a special kind of role," he said. They're in a unique position, he insists, to detect evidence of torture and to do something about it!

source:
StarTribune.com

Now this is an interesting article, showing that Prison Tortures and Abuses at Abu Gharib and possibly also in Guantanamo are not actions of "few bad apples" as Doctor Steven Miles said, but a Well planned and Well executed Military Operation - with Support from Military Doctors!

Doctors? People who have SWORN in the First Place to Save Lives, are turning their heads away on Dying people, are falsifying Documents, like Death Certificates, to make Torture look more "Soft", as if these Prisoners did not die because of Torture, but of Natural Causes (Skull Fracture - a Natural Cause of Death?).

It is as Doctor Miles said - when you look at the picture of these Abusements and Tortures, the Story gets a Whole New meaning if You KNOW that there is a Doctor or a Medic present, that does NOTHING to Help!




posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 12:56 PM
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No Takers?

Damn - and I thought Lots of Guantanamo Lawyers would Arrive here and Defend Abu Gharib to the Grave!

No?



[edit on 22/6/05 by Souljah]



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 02:40 PM
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Where does it say Guantanmo in that article? I fail to see it mentioned once, stick to the topic don't try to spin off the story. And I do not know where, or how the doctor at Abu Garib operated.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Where does it say Guantanmo in that article? I fail to see it mentioned once, stick to the topic don't try to spin off the story. And I do not know where, or how the doctor at Abu Garib operated.

AHhhhhhhhhhh, Ofcourse I knew mister WestPoint23 would arrive.

So whats your opinion on Doctors Forging Death Certificates and not Doing what they were SWORN to do?

A-OK?



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 04:12 PM
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Alright, go ask a bunch of people and see how many times they have lied today- its near 99%, now go ask people who have done something contrary to an oath they had taken some time in their life, once again the percentage reaches about 99.9999999999%. The Doctor may be doing the right thing- the constitution of the United States that the Government may use any force necessary to protect Americans in grim times. When terrorist acts or war happens, our rights as Americans, and other peoples rights are taken away by the US, but it is necessary that the Government does that so they may protect its citizens.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by horten229v3
Alright, go ask a bunch of people and see how many times they have lied today- its near 99%,

Errr, where do you live my Friend?

Thats a Scary Number you are Posting....



The Doctor may be doing the right thing- the constitution of the United States that the Government may use any force necessary to protect Americans in grim times.

Grim Times for Americans?

What are You talking about?

Are Americans DYING on Daily basis because of:

- War
- Famine
- Disease
- Torture

(not counting American Soldiers, who have chosen this way of Killing)



When terrorist acts or war happens, our rights as Americans, and other peoples rights are taken away by the US, but it is necessary that the Government does that so they may protect its citizens.

You sound like Hitler.

Do you think YOU are any BETTER then the REST, so that You can simply Take Away Basic Human Rights?

Great Thinking, Man.

You would really Enjoy living in a Police State - oh wait a minute, if you are an American, You Already ARE!


dh

posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 05:11 PM
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With a few exceptions the medical system and its personnel operate at the behest of the drug cartels and the large corporations who provide the bulk of the research funding that informs , or rather disinforms, their practice
It is no use expecting the medical profession and doctors on the whole to protect the victims of the New World Order when their whole enterprise is based on the dispensation of toxic drugs, cutting and slicing people and burning them up in various ways
Those assigned to penal encampments of various kinds, will almost always side with the culture of punishment, torture, whatever
They are position and fear led dogs like everyone else, whatever their hippocratic oaths or whatever
Dr Mengele, I presume?



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by dh
With a few exceptions the medical system and its personnel operate at the behest of the drug cartels and the large corporations who provide the bulk of the research funding that informs , or rather disinforms, their practice
It is no use expecting the medical profession and doctors on the whole to protect the victims of the New World Order when their whole enterprise is based on the dispensation of toxic drugs, cutting and slicing people and burning them up in various ways
Those assigned to penal encampments of various kinds, will almost always side with the culture of punishment, torture, whatever
They are position and fear led dogs like everyone else, whatever their hippocratic oaths or whatever
Dr Mengele, I presume?

Now thats a SCARY but so TRUE description of the Western Medical System.

The Curative Way of Curing Diseases is nothing but Big Business for Drug and other Pharmaceutical Corporations.

Saddest part is, that Everytime a Patient is Diagnosed with Cancer, the GDP goes UP.

So why really Stop this Disease at all, if it brings Money and Profit?

Kind of Sick - but True.

I wonder how many Doctors out there are based on PREVENTIVE MEDICINE?

Wait a Minute, that does not bring any Profit - if we Warn this Patient about his Wrong Doing and Prevent the Disease from happenening, in Ten years time he will not be our Most Valuable Patient.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 05:52 PM
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So, one guy, looking at pictures, has concluded that ALL the medical personnel at the Ghraib have lied, and are still lying, about the so-called torture?

That, gentlemen, is known as grasping for straws.

Do you suppose...just for one moment...that the terr with the concussion, bruises, and in a coma, likely got that way from trying to kill Americans, and that is WHY he was in the prison to begin with? Then, really did die from a simple heart attack?

At it's most terrible, Abu Ghraib was a stupid collection of high school level hazing. Show me ONE picture of toenails pulled out. Scars or other damage from localized burning. Bones snapped. Ears sliced. Whip marks. Broken jaws. Chemicals for inducing pain. Electronic devices for inducing pain.

All I have seen, is naked terrs in a pile, and an really ugly chick laughing at small dicks. Anybody got any REAL torture proof, other than this juvenile behavior?

Because I'll trump you with video and photos of terrs executing and beheading all sorts of innocent civilians.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 05:59 PM
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Army,

Please define torture for those around us...
PS, what is ur rank BTW?

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 06:18 PM
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Look the United States government reserves the right to 'bend" the constitution in times of trouble- so this doctor was allowed to "shorcut" things and do stuff that wasnt legal bc it possibly could protect the lives of Americans in times of war.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 06:50 PM
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Like army said humiliating is not torture. I guess to some people anything that a prisoner doesn't like to do is consider torture right?

And this guy expects the doctors to be around the prisoner 100% of the times? The few stupid guard that might have physically harmed a few of the prisoners could have told the doctors lies about how the injures came about. Struggle, battle injuries, confrontation etc...


dh

posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 07:02 PM
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These scum MDs or GPs or whatever are just the tail-end of medicine dispensing whatever is needed to maintain the status quo
The reverence offered the title Doctor is obsolete
Avoid them like the plague they are



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by horten229v3
Alright, go ask a bunch of people and see how many times they have lied today- its near 99%, now go ask people who have done something contrary to an oath they had taken some time in their life, once again the percentage reaches about 99.9999999999%.


Dude you need to seriously improve the quality of people that you hang with, or are influenced by. If I thought things were that hopeless, I would put a gun in my mouth right now.

I think there must be at least 20 percent of the people out there who will not lie under any circumstance, unfortunately I am not one of them.


It appears that the former medical staff at the prison were not among the magic 20 percent either.


[edit on 6-22-2005 by groingrinder]



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 07:11 PM
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I guess no ones knows what physcological torture is then....



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 07:26 PM
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DevilWasp, all my info is in my Profile. Unlike nearly everyone on this BB, I have nothing to hide, and nothing to hide from.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 07:33 PM
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Ooo noo those poor poor terrorists having to go through *Gasp* PSYCHOLOGICAL TORTURE!!!! ahhhh! alright get real- do you see the things they do to US soldiers? alright well we treat them humanely and only exploit phsychological means of extracting information. If we cannot do that, what can we do? give them incentives? BS- "alright terrorist, if you confess we will let you go and then get ur buds", no we EXTRACT the info FROM them, leaving them with no leverage.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by horten229v3
Ooo noo those poor poor terrorists having to go through *Gasp* PSYCHOLOGICAL TORTURE!!!! ahhhh! alright get real- do you see the things they do to US soldiers? alright well we treat them humanely and only exploit phsychological means of extracting information. If we cannot do that, what can we do? give them incentives? BS- "alright terrorist, if you confess we will let you go and then get ur buds", no we EXTRACT the info FROM them, leaving them with no leverage.

So because they do it, that makes it fine?
Does that mean a soldier can execute a suspect in the street?

Sergeant, with all due respect surely you understand how horrible physcological warfare is? With this knowledge you should know what kind of damage it can do to anyone, nevermind he or she being a serviceman or women.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 08:50 PM
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You mean we might upset the tender psyche of the bad guys? Why, how terrible would that be? Golly, they might even get goose bumps from the anticipation of being looked at by a *gasp* female Soldier! Ohhhhh, the humanityyyyyy!


Get real, the Ghraib is full of bad people. Hell, I even sent a few dozen their myself, after they were caught dropping mortars on coalition troops. I don't give a damn if they are "psycologically" maltreated, they're in PRISON, not Club Med.

The Arab culture is ALL ABOUT mental games played on one another. Almost any gesture is considered an insult; don't hold your hand juuuust right when talking...an insult. Use your LEFT hand in what they consider an inappropriate manner...an insult. Somehow show the bottom of your feet....an insult. Speak to his wife without asking permission...an insult. Tussle his childs hair without asking....an insult. LOOK at his wife/wives in any way HE may feel is inappropriate....an insult. Refuse his offer of food, no mater how disgusting to you...an insult. Clean your plate of food while eating...an insult. Give him a gift that he cannot match in return...an insult.

And on and on and on.

Tough twinkies, the bad guys will be treated as bad guys in prison.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 09:52 PM
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ARMY, exactly what country are the American forces in again? They, them, YOU, are the invading force. By definition it is YOU that are the bad guys. Just because you have more weapons doesn't mean you are good. Good or bad should be decided by outside third party members that aren't baised by patriotic BS and I am afraid when that is done America isn't generally on the side of good.

By definition, the people that are causing the terror is the invading army - you. Leave and start to make things right again.



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