UK threatening to pull out of the F-35 JSF programme if the US dose'nt share technology

Read the full article .............

I guess technology transfer is pretty important. But i can also understand why America is reluctant to give the Brits sensetive high end tech (like stealth, the laser on the JSF, etc). Its glad to see that the brits are placing importance on thier sovereignty..because the way things look today to my eyes..Britian is behaving like a colony of the US

Australia is dilly dallying on the JSF, Israel gets suspended from the programme for leaking tech to china, Turkey and Singapore are considering the Rafale, the US Navy is mooting the F/A-18 block 3 stealthy super hornet and may dump the F-35B, the F-35 has weight problems, and the UK-one of the key partners may pull out ... the future of the F-35 looks bleak to say the least.

The UK is also working on a stealthy derrivative of the Eurofighter

Perhaps the F-35's substitute ?

[edit on 22-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]

What the heck does sovereignty have to do with JSF technology sharing?! Do I need to buy you a dictionary...



[edit on 22-6-2005 by John bull 1]

Thanks but i have my own

Better argue with that BAe top man, i've just quoted him.

What do they need the codes now? The JSF program is not set for production until another 5-6 years.
The British have been asking for these codes from day one and I do not understand it ,its like me asking the deal for car keys before I even get the car.

When we buy it, we will get full access it the whole source code, and we may even get a plane to play with. But we haven't signed up yet so i do not see the problem.

May just be BAe talking up the problem to get a manned requirement FOAS back up and running or a navy version of the typhoon, go figer.

RAB

What do you mean you haven't signed up?
Haven't the Brits already invested $200 million in this project?

Britain is already a full partner in the F-35, and there's the rub. Its not really to do with 'codes', If I remember rightly that whole argument stemmed from a UK tabloid report. Theyt said it was to do with codes because they have to to consider the mental age of their readers.

BAE''s issue basically boils down to 'are we a full partner or just sheet metal workers bashing out shapes?' Don't forget the UK (very foolishly)sacrificed its place as the world leader in V/STOL technology to join the JSF in order that our new fighter would not only be a supersonic V/STOL but stealthy too.

Now it seems that the UK is being denied access to any of the real technological areas because of America's new found paranoia. As US citizens you may have no problem with that stance but as supposedly 'trusted' allies, indeed the closest and most loyal America has ever had, we in the UK very much do have a problem with that.

In terms of Sovereignty, what Mike Turner is talking about is the sovereignty of technology and design, not of the nation itself. You see with Jaguar, Tornado and Typhoon for example the UK (or any of the other partners) could do whatever it liked with the aircraft in terms of design, development and marketing. Examples of this include the Jaguar International, designed by the UK alone and supplied to India, or the Tornado ADV, designed by the UK for the RAF and the Tornado ECR which was designed by MBB for the Luftwaffe. Each partner holds sovereignty on the aircraft within its own industry. That this is not the case with BAE is what is really frustrating them.

You might think that the F-35 is 90% American anyway so whats the probem? Well, that is exactly the problem, the UK's input has been too restricted and they are also not being allowed to incorporate their own design ideas even into the versions we want for ourselves, is that any way to treat a partner?

Question : Is the UK getting technology transfer of the F-35's stealth secrets (used on the F-22 as well) and its laser to fry incoming missiles ?

The specific areas of technology involved are classified but I would imagine that, after Replica, HALO, and Nighjar, the actual stealth tech itself is not one of them, after all the areas being built by BAE will need to be just as stealthy as the rest of the plane or your enemy will just be able to aim for the 'British bit'

As regards the laser, I understand that this is quite a long way in the future (look at how the AL-1 has to be based on the 747!) and is more a long term design objective rather than an actual piece of kit, by which I mean the F-35 is expected to be around for such a long time it is designed to be able to accept a laser when one is actually ready (whenever that may be) It will certainly not be a part of the armoury of the F-35 by 2014, maybe even by 2025.

In that so much as siging the order form and putting it and a cheque in the post! The US isn't going to transfer any source code it BAe until the Cheque in the post and that a stand the US takes on lods of stuff.

Example being the F16 different version of the F16 being cleared to carry different weapons, it all come to the machine source code. I full see why the US dose it this way.

But once we have the order in place and start getting the machine we will have the source code anyway, so thay will have to pass it over.

Or it could just be a ploy by BAe to get some interest in a design it has floating around.

RAB

I think a lot of why the US did not give an exemption for Britain from rules governing the transfer of arms technology is the fact that Europe may lift the ban on weapons sales to China. For obvious reasons the US doesn't want this, and Britain is suffering as a result and if the ban is lifted Britain will suffer the most out of all European countries.

Li nk

The US seems to be adamant on not letting the codes out .

Read thes excerepts :

The U.K. shouldn't expect access to design data on the Joint Strike Fighter in return for helping fund the $244 billion program, a top Pentagon official said.

A lot of partners don't seem to quite understand that this isn't an old-style airplane program,'' said General Jeffery Kohler in an interview at the Paris Air Show. "This is not an offset program or an industrial development program'' that awards contracts in return for funding.

The U.K. is providing $2 billion of development funding toward the Lockheed Martin Corp.-led project. "We've put in a lot more than that,'' said Kohler, director of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency, which oversees foreign military sales. "The U.S. isn't in a position to say you've invested a bit so here you go, here are the blueprints to the Joint Strike Fighter.''

The U.S. Congress's failure to approve an exemption for Britain from rules governing the transfer of arms technology has hurt companies including London-based BAE, Europe's biggest weapons maker, and Roll-Royce Group Plc, both suppliers to the JSF, said Alexandra Ashbourne, a defense analyst who heads London- based Ashbourne Strategic Consulting Ltd.

"There is a huge amount of frustration about the lack of progress on this issue,'' Ashbourne said. "There is real resentment within the U.K. government that despite being the most loyal ally in Iraq, we have nothing to show for it.''

The U.K. is buying about 150 of a version that uses jump-jet technology supplied by Rolls-Royce. BAE is supplying electronics and airframe parts.

And the most shocking part :

[size=4]Manufacturing know-how developed by BAE and Rolls-Royce at the companies' U.S. divisions cannot be shared with their British operations because of strict Pentagon rules. [/size]

Read the full article ............

I guess the US is acting tough too...wonder which side will break ?

No; the UK is still the world leader in VSTOL tech... proved yet again :

Read :



link

[edit on 22-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]

so that would be technology transfer from the UK to the US but not the other way around. That seems fair NOT!!!!!

Anyone else up for a navalised version of Replica????

A navy Replica O god please, with a bomb bay and a good range, that would ROCK!

RAB

Pardon my ignorance, but a what?

Waynos....links to sources or is the above merely an educated guess or speculation?
Seen these?

Directed Energy Weapons, An ATS Analysis & Discussion

Or this with the F-35 and AC-130 mentioned:
Attack at the Speed of Light

Accordingly, the time frames are definately more aggressive than what you have asserted.




seekerof

I'm not gonna hold my breath on them having it ready by then though. Isn't ABL way behind schedule due to the laser development? It would be NICE if it's ready by then, but with the way projects get delayed lately I wouldn't be surprised if it was more like test flying in 2010 at the earliest.

Kelly Johnson was the last of the great pioneers to bring a project in on time and under or on budget. The U-2 was 18 months from design to test flight.

This link opened my eyes to the power of the F-35 :



I bet that no other member of the JSF programme except Big Bro will get these futuristic gizmos.

The F-35 still dose'nt stop amazing me. I found more




link

No wonder the faithful brits are not getting its tech.