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The Truth about the June 8 Phoenix Video

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posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 08:54 PM
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How can you all be deceived so easily? How hard is it to come up with
some "experts" that debunk a video. Some "reporters" to "investigate"
the person taking the video and post some bogus stories about him. And
then kidnap (left town without telling anyone) the dude so he never
surfaces again to be a problem.

Oh yea, and then post date some search engine "stories" or "web site pages"
that were created the day after the event to make the guy look like a total
fraud.

Your only evidence are "stories" that were posted on the Internet. Some with
official sounding credentials. How do any of you know what is real?
when you've been deceived?




posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 03:43 AM
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Originally posted by TruthCanHurt
How can you all be deceived so easily? How hard is it to come up with
some "experts" that debunk a video. Some "reporters" to "investigate"
the person taking the video and post some bogus stories about him. And
then kidnap (left town without telling anyone) the dude so he never
surfaces again to be a problem.

Oh yea, and then post date some search engine "stories" or "web site pages"
that were created the day after the event to make the guy look like a total
fraud.

Your only evidence are "stories" that were posted on the Internet. Some with
official sounding credentials. How do any of you know what is real?
when you've been deceived? .





To summarize, we have all been deceived, but your wisdom protects you from manipulation of this kind. None of us grasps reality, but you have a strong hold on it. Hmmmm, I don't know about this

However, I do know the producer. I do know the person who analized the video. I do know them both to be fair and knowledgable people.....these are no debunkers. I do know that manipulating a digital document from someone's web site, will not spread and infect that person's home videos so they now look fake. I do know how things went down and let me assure you there is no conspiracy and this guy is not being held captive in the basement of some TV station. (we moved him) and.......... I do know I could have saved a ton of money by switching to Geico.

WB



posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 06:08 AM
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(I see thread lock coming)

You STARTED a thread... on an existing subject... just to curse us ALL out for ALL being STUPID and ALL BEING DUPED... when most of us have not even made our minds up about things... (I know this to be a fact because this is how thinking people usually think) ...and most of us are smart enough to know that flash animation can not produce a video like this (so in other words its not as simple as all that).

I think the only one duped here is YOU.. by the obvious propaganda ploy of whoever it is that is trying to cover this incident up (the slander on this guy who filmed it). YOU actually seem to think that we are dumb enough to suck up the 'expert' opinion without question. So instead of waiting to see a couple days to see what we ALL say, then taking a poll or slowly counting us all to see who thought what, like you know.. given all of us dummies a few more days to let the propaganda sink in so we could then all say.. "My god its full of crap!" ... so you could THEN get on your high horse and then talk down to us ALL for being stupid AT THAT POINT. Not before.. like you've done here.

But thanks for the thread topic to tell us all we are stupid.

We already knew that (contrary to our limited intellect) but thank you anyways for the heads up.


I wonder how many more posts before its thread locked?



posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 07:08 AM
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If a demonstrably qualified, professional and impartial digital video analyst were to produce a peer-reviewed report on this video then I would consider it the 'truth'. To my knowledge this has yet to happen. In my opinion, the content of responses posted at Debunking the Debunkers Pt.1, Debunking the Debunkers Pt.2, and Debunking the Debunkers Pt.3 is unconvincing due in part to its format, poor grammar and lack of objectivity. In addition, the video analysis supposedly authored by "Ufo Researcher Barry Taylor" at Ufo Researcher Barry Taylor Find Footage Authentic, poses a conflict of interest considering his "Ufo Researcher" status and provides no indication of his credentials that would qualify him as suitable to perform such analysis.

[edit on 21/6/2005 by Plazma]



posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by Worldblend
To summarize, we have all been deceived, but your wisdom protects you from manipulation of this kind. None of us grasps reality, but you have a strong hold on it. Hmmmm, I don't know about this


No, my wisdom forces me to realize that there is no way to determine
from the Internet the credibility of any of the testimony.


Originally posted by Worldblend
However, I do know the producer. I do know the person who analized the video. I do know them both to be fair and knowledgable people.....these are no debunkers.


You have an advantage on me there. As long as you're comfortable
accepting as fact the opinions of your acquaintances. For most of us though,
they are just anonymous names with opinions.



posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by Vis Mega
You STARTED a thread... on an existing subject... just to curse us ALL out for ALL being STUPID and ALL BEING DUPED...


Wow, that is quite an interpretation of my original post. You must have
been reading between the lines since I fail to see any cursing or name calling
on my part.


Originally posted by Vis Mega
I think the only one duped here is YOU.. by the obvious propaganda ploy of whoever it is that is trying to cover this incident up


Really, you've uncovered a propaganda ploy? I would like to hear about
it.



Originally posted by Vis Mega
But thanks for the thread topic to tell us all we are stupid.

We already knew that (contrary to our limited intellect) but thank you anyways for the heads up.


Actually, the thread was started to discuss knowledge of the truth in
reference to the Phoenix video. It is my belief that it is not possible
to accept with 100% certainty any of the "facts" being reported.



posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 11:07 AM
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Originally posted by TruthCanHurt
Actually, the thread was started to discuss knowledge of the truth in
reference to the Phoenix video. It is my belief that it is not possible
to accept with 100% certainty any of the "facts" being reported.


Well, with certainty I can say the shooter cut off all contact with my after I asked the pointed questions about him and the video. Before that, he responded to every email, within an hour.

So whats more likely, that he doesnt want to answer, or that he was kidnapped.

I dont even put Dilettoso's "analysis" in the folder...as far as I'm concerned he's the biggest thorn in UFO research's side there is. One only need know that he's the one who claims to be able to do spectral analysis on video tape, that he claimed the Pheonix flares were "not of this earth", and that he was the main photo/film "analyst", who authenticated the Meier fiasco.

Nobody comes up with Jim's answers but Jim. My opinion is Dilettoso is trying to reinvent himself into being legitimate by saying the video is hoaxed.

My stance is that it most likely is, but who knows if I'll *ever* get a direct dub at this point, after I asked the questions I did of the shooter, only to be dropped like a hot potato when I did? I'll probably never see it.

I also dont have the time to travel to Pheonix (altho I'd love to..I love Pheonix). The pattern of behavior described by the shooter's critics matches what I experienced, perfectly. I have no reason to doubt their statements.

The video is a different story, will I ever get it? No idea. Doesnt matter one way or the other to me, I've been knee deep in a case for over 2 months that sucks up the majority of my time. If anyone does actually get it, and wants to make me a dub, I'll have a look.

I really wish that when someone shoots a video of a UFO they'd have it thoroughly examined by more then a few analyists before they post it on the net. It doesnt do anything but make a mess when it's "direct to web".



posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 11:23 AM
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So did anybody ever figure out how the video was made?

J-ritz.....I have a question. For the uninitiated among us, why exactly is an original needed to do a proper analysis? What's on the original video that's not on a copy?

Peace



posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 12:04 PM
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Doc-
You want the absolute clearest, most unfettered copy you can get of the original event. Any dub is going to have artifacts and degradation consistent with the equipment used to do it. First gen copy, hell it'll work, but past that, you lose clarity.

Take a look at any of the old bootlegged concerts from the 80's or 90's you might have bought a a record show or a back room at the record store. They were dubs of dubs, and you'll see the fine detail start to solidify into a solid tone rather then what it should be.



posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann

Nobody comes up with Jim's answers but Jim. My opinion is Dilettoso is trying to reinvent himself into being legitimate by saying the video is hoaxed.

My stance is that it most likely is, but who knows if I'll *ever* get a direct dub at this point, after I asked the questions I did of the shooter, only to be dropped like a hot potato when I did? I'll probably never see it.

I also dont have the time to travel to Pheonix (altho I'd love to..I love Pheonix). The pattern of behavior described by the shooter's critics matches what I experienced, perfectly. I have no reason to doubt their statements.

The video is a different story, will I ever get it? No idea. Doesnt matter one way or the other to me, I've been knee deep in a case for over 2 months that sucks up the majority of my time. If anyone does actually get it, and wants to make me a dub, I'll have a look.

I really wish that when someone shoots a video of a UFO they'd have it thoroughly examined by more then a few analyists before they post it on the net. It doesnt do anything but make a mess when it's "direct to web".


JZ:
The video that was used for analysis was not an internet copy. It was captured from the camera while it played at the studio. This may seem like a copy to sum, but it is first generation. This is "from" not through the grapevine. The most extensive analysis and the one to which I refer, was done by Liligren, who is a real whiz and has some of the latest equipment.

WB



posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Worldblend
The video that was used for analysis was not an internet copy. It was captured from the camera while it played at the studio. This may seem like a copy to sum, but it is first generation.


Okay, so they should then have additional footage which was edited out of
the web based video. Do they have a copy with the "UFOTheatre.com"
text missing and additional footage?



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 01:16 AM
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World-
I was referring to the interview done with Dilettoso...thats all.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 06:16 AM
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Originally posted by jritzmann

Originally posted by TruthCanHurt
Actually, the thread was started to discuss knowledge of the truth in
reference to the Phoenix video. It is my belief that it is not possible
to accept with 100% certainty any of the "facts" being reported.


Well, with certainty I can say the shooter cut off all contact with my after I asked the pointed questions about him and the video. Before that, he responded to every email, within an hour.

So whats more likely, that he doesnt want to answer, or that he was kidnapped.


All we can say for sure is that he does not answer. Whether by choice
or not is speculation.



Originally posted by jritzmann
My stance is that it most likely is, but who knows if I'll *ever* get a direct dub at this point, after I asked the questions I did of the shooter, only to be dropped like a hot potato when I did? I'll probably never see it.


If you do receive a dub and the video is a fake you'll likely only receive the
parts of the video we've already seen. Without a baseline direct from the
camera to compare against the copy you receive may not be very useful.


Originally posted by jritzmann
I've been knee deep in a case for over 2 months that sucks up the majority of my time.


A UFO case? Care to share?



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by TruthCanHurt

Originally posted by jritzmann

Originally posted by TruthCanHurt
Actually, the thread was started to discuss knowledge of the truth in
reference to the Phoenix video. It is my belief that it is not possible
to accept with 100% certainty any of the "facts" being reported.


Well, with certainty I can say the shooter cut off all contact with my after I asked the pointed questions about him and the video. Before that, he responded to every email, within an hour.

So whats more likely, that he doesnt want to answer, or that he was kidnapped.


All we can say for sure is that he does not answer. Whether by choice
or not is speculation.


But when you couple the "no answer", with the available info that he cuts all contact when asked the hard questions, I can surmise the shooter has something to hide. IF he truly wanted to know what was on his tape, he's be as open as the day is long. Genuine people shooting genuine footage want answers. Besides the idea that I'm not willing to go whole hog involvement in it, he has now cut me out of whatever interest I had at the time.



Originally posted by jritzmann
My stance is that it most likely is, but who knows if I'll *ever* get a direct dub at this point, after I asked the questions I did of the shooter, only to be dropped like a hot potato when I did? I'll probably never see it.



If you do receive a dub and the video is a fake you'll likely only receive the
parts of the video we've already seen. Without a baseline direct from the
camera to compare against the copy you receive may not be very useful.


And usually thats just what I'd get, but again, I *was* just another writing for a copy, or direct. Despite what you state to any witness as to what you do, how long you been doing it, etc, it's up to them as to what they'll give you, or if they want to even let you work on it. And, despite the fact the "dub" might be edited, which I believe would be the case, there would still be enough clarity to establish whats going on.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
The video is a different story, will I ever get it? No idea. Doesnt matter one way or the other to me, I've been knee deep in a case for over 2 months that sucks up the majority of my time.


Fill us in J-ritz. Can you give us the background of the case you're working on without divulging any of the particulars? C'mon.........throw us a bone.

Peace



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by Dr Love

Originally posted by jritzmann
The video is a different story, will I ever get it? No idea. Doesnt matter one way or the other to me, I've been knee deep in a case for over 2 months that sucks up the majority of my time.


Fill us in J-ritz. Can you give us the background of the case you're working on without divulging any of the particulars? C'mon.........throw us a bone.

Peace


Nope I sure can't. I've signed NDA's til the case analysis is complete.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 11:01 AM
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I live in the Phoenix area; while I know that TV stations screw up sometimes (especially local stations), most of the stuff I see on Channel 3 makes sense.

I also know that there was no report of these lights by anyone I know or any of the local papers I read (and I read them every day); after living here for 28 years, I know enough people so that I would've heard something!

Now of course you can say that Channel 3 and its experts and all the reporters are really on the Secret Plot to Hide the Awful Truth About the Little Purple Spaceship Guys from Arcturus, but I've always considered that 'blame-everything-on-a-plot" business to be a cheap copout.

If you assume that everyone who disagrees with you is part of a Huge Secret etc., then everyone else can assume that you're part of a Huge Secret Plot to Make Everyone Believe in Spaceship Guys from Arcturus.

And I don't buy that either.

I am not a video expert, although I have a digital camera, a photo website and have taken a course in Photoshop 7. I can't tell who is telling the truth here and who is blowing smoke; I have to make my judgement on what the people say and how they say it, rather than who they say they are or what expertise they claim to have.

Every post I've read by Jeff Ritzmann sounds like it was written by a person who does not have an axe to grind, and who knows his business. On the other hand, the stuff written by the people who are trying to prove that the video is the real thing doesn't pass my personal BS test: they can't get their point across because they can't spell or write a coherent sentence, they don't answer the questions but change the subject and try to switch to personal issues, and so on.

Now I don't have a clue who this Ritzmann guy is outside of what he says, but he's the one person I've read so far who makes sense to me.

I'm going with him on this one.

[edit on 22-6-2005 by Off_The_Street]



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 08:42 PM
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TruthCanHurt - You just post a new post of an old thread to get some points/ cash in the shop??? I know you have more brains then this... and I hope the admin gives you whats needed...

Truth... Nothing is enough for you... as someone stated on the true thread of this video.. PEOPLE will believe what they want not matter what.... Look at you... this guy is the owner of a UFO site and your think he is the ONLY one who saw this UFO??? YHEA CUZ ITS FAKE and he made it just to get sell more videos... JUST LIKE YOUR DOING NOW TO GET MORE POINTS!!!!

You and him are the same!!!! GIVE IT UP DUDE!



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 09:13 PM
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Here's a comment from Bill Hamilton from AstroScience Research Network, as well as a response from videographer Brian Bessent to a tv report claiming his new Phoenix UFO video is a hoax:

www.rense.com...



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
And, despite the fact the "dub" might be edited, which I believe would be the case, there would still be enough clarity to establish whats going on.


What exactly would you be looking for in the copy? Blacklevel or vector
scope readings? errors in layering?

With the expected edited section copy you would likely get I would expect
the basic video waveform not to change that much. Especially since a good
hoaxer would expect you to look for such things.



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