CNN may have lied about WTC Building 7, page 6
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reply posted on 23-6-2005 @ 06:03 PM by deltaboy
news.yahoo.com...


NEW YORK - A federal engineering agency that investigated the World Trade Center collapse recommended Thursday that cities raise the fire standards for skyscrapers and develop new materials that can better protect tall buildings in an inferno.

Engineers with the National Institute of Standards and Technology said, for example, that stairwells should be situated apart from each other so that if one is damaged another might still work. They also urged installation of "fire-protected and structurally hardened elevators" designed to function in a blaze.

"Such elevators should be installed for exclusive use by emergency responders during emergencies," NIST said in its draft recommendations on the twin tower collapse.

NIST does not have the authority to alter building codes, but hopes to persuade local authorities to make the changes.

"We believe that the recommendations are realistic and achievable," said Shyam Sunder, the lead NIST investigator. He said the costs would vary, but he did not take issue with reports suggesting that for most new buildings, construction expenses would rise only 2 percent to 5 percent.

The NIST's three-year investigation gathered reams of data on such things as fire tests on steel and office workers' evacuation behavior to determine exactly how the 110-story towers fell after two hijacked jetliners slammed into them on Sept. 11, 2001. A total of 2,749 people were killed.

The analysis does not blame the collapse on the steel or design of the towers. NIST engineers concluded the towers probably would have remained standing if the impact of the airplanes had not stripped away fireproofing material on steel columns.

Without that fireproofing, fires continued to burn inside offices, weakening the building's skeleton until it collapsed under its own weight.

The NIST report calls for the development of more durable fire-resistant materials and technologies.

The investigation considered a number of what-if scenarios, some hopeful, some terrifying.

NIST determined that if the twin towers had been struck later in the day at full occupancy, some 14,000 people could have died. On the other hand, if the buildings' elevators had been better protected, more people would have escaped.

it shows that fire can take down buildings, the planes crashing took down the fireproof materials. and never use cheap fire resistance materials either i beg of u.


reply posted on 23-6-2005 @ 06:21 PM by Hunting Veritas
Originally posted by Zaphod58
The WTC also didn't have sprinklers in them, believe it or not. The Port Authority saved $50 million dollars by not putting them in.


Someone is soooooooo very wrong:

NIST and the WTC

Under solicitation number SB1341-03-Q-0463, a firm fixed price purchase order has been awarded to Hughes Associates, Inc. (HAI).

Established in 1980, HAI is a fire protection engineering, research, and consulting firm whose experience includes fire hazard and risk analysis, fire modeling, fire protection design, code consulting, product development, and litigation support. HAI’s staff has earned an international reputation in the application of advanced technologies to solve both standard and unique fire protection problems.

Specific tasks related to WTC Buildings 1, 2, and 7 that the Hughes team will perform include:

1) Document the design and installation of the fire sprinkler system, standpipe system, and pre-connected hoses and compare designs to applicable code and standards requirements.

2) Document the design and capacity of the water supply systems to the fire sprinklers, including provisions for redundancy.

3) Identify and document differences in the design of the water supply, fire sprinkler system, standpipe system, and pre-connected hoses between WTC 1, 2, and 7.

4) Document the normal operation and effect of the fully functional fire sprinkler system, standpipe system, and pre-connected hoses for fire control.

5) Document the performance of the fire sprinkler system, standpipe system, and pre-connected hoses on September 11, 2001.


Yeah there was no sprinkler system in the buildings.

So the building(s) sprinkler system in WTC 1, 2 & 7 just convieniently stopped working on that day......Especially 7 which did not get hit by a plane or debris.......There is no need for WTC 7's sprinkler system not to work........


reply posted on 23-6-2005 @ 06:36 PM by deltaboy
Originally posted by NoJustice
Hunting Veritas I respect you but these others aren't going to listen to any proof or evidence you attempt to give out. None of them had any answer to my NORAD question



www.norad.mil...

North American Aerospace Defense Command
"Deter, Detect, Defend." That is the motto of the men and women who serve in the North American Aerospace Defense Command. Since 1958, Canadians and Americans have been partners in protecting the airspace of Alaska, Canada and the contiguous 48 United States. The mission has evolved over the years.

Until the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, NORAD's focus was almost exclusively fixed on threats coming toward the Canadian and American borders, not terrorism in our domestic airspace. Because of that day, NORAD's focus has increased to include domestic airspace. NORAD's mission is truly global.

Prior to Sept. 11, NORAD was a word that was associated predominately with the Cold War. The eyes and ears of NORAD were focused on aerospace threats that may come from sources far away from the shores of Canada and the United States.

Today, the highly skilled men and women of NORAD use ground-based radar, airborne radar, satellites, fighter aircraft, proven command structures and intelligence capabilities to enforce control of the skies over the United States and Canada.


here is the reason why they had problems, they were looking in the wrong direction


as they say we still have Cold War mentality, and never deal with present day threats.



reply posted on 23-6-2005 @ 09:56 PM by ThatsJustWeird


My post was just erased for some reason!

I really don't feel like going over everything again so I'll just say:

- Half and NoJustice you can find about NORAD here

NORAD is unusually prepared on 9/11 because it is conducting a weeklong, semi-annual exercise called Vigilant Guardian. [Newhouse News Service, 1/25/02] Deskins is regional Mission Crew Chief for the Vigilant Guardian exercise. [ABC News, 9/11/02] The exercise poses “an imaginary crisis to North American Air Defense outposts nationwide.” [Newhouse News Service, 1/25/02] Accounts by participants vary on whether 9/11 was the second, third, or fourth day of the exercise. [Newhouse News Service, 1/25/02; Ottawa Citizen, 9/11/02; Code One Magazine, 1/02] NORAD is also running another fighter exercise named Operation Northern Vigilance. NORAD is thus fully staffed and alert, and senior officers are manning stations throughout the US. The entire chain of command is in place and ready when the first hijacking is reported. An article later says, “In retrospect, the exercise would prove to be a serendipitous enabler of a rapid military response to terrorist attacks on September 11.” [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/02; Bergen Record, 12/5/03] ABC News later reports that because NORAD is “conducting training exercises [it has] extra fighter planes on alert.” [ABC News, 9/14/02] Colonel Robert Marr, in charge of NEADS, says, “We had the fighters with a little more gas on board. A few more weapons on board.” [ABC News, 9/11/02] However, Deskins and other NORAD officials later are initially confused about whether the 9/11 attacks are real or part of the exercise. There is a National Reconnaissance Office exercise planned to occur as well, involving a scenario of an airplane as a flying weapon. [Associated Press, 8/21/02; UPI, 8/22/02]


- There's no credible evidence about the passport.

- I never said I was living in fear of terrorists. I said I'd like to live in your world where they don't exsist.

- You say I've done a bad job disproving it. What is the "it"?? You haven't given me anything to disprove.
Besides, it's up to YOU to disprove planes crashed into the buildings and up to you to disprove fire and damage brought down the buildings.

- Also there are tons of other ways to fight terrorism besides joining the army, why didn't you mention all those?
Also, why haven't YOU joined the army?


If I get bored and feel like dealing with you all I'll post everything I had before
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