You guys really must be joking, with your:
1) "Fire collapsed a steel building perfectly"
2) Only Muslims explode bombs, and they like to do so in a suicide style attack, although the only proof I have are the news stories over the years
rhetoric.

Imagine it for a second, either you don't need a suicide bomber, and just say there was one, or you have two options:
1) Drug, hypnotize, and mind control the guy to walk out into the street. Not very difficult, if you have had a few weeks with a person. Then press the remote detonator.

2) Convince someone to die for their religion. Actually, this one is actually much harder. We are told that killing innocent civilians is somehow a gift to Allah? I am not sure you will find many Muslims agreeing with that statement.

Plus, what if the guy asks if he can throw the bomb instead? What are you going to tell him? No, you'll go to jail. Better to die in the explosion as well.

The whole suicide bomber thing is way way overdone.

It's like that Lazyboy song. "Underwear goes inside the pants".

Masterminds are another word that comes up all the time.
You keep hearing about these uh these terrorists masterminds
that get killed in the middle east.
Terrorists masterminds.
Mastermind is sort of a lofty way to describe
what these guys do, don’t you think?
They’re not masterminds.
“OK, you take bomb, right? And you put in backpack.
Then you get on bus and you blow yourself up.”
“Why do I have to blow myself up? Why don’t I put…”
“Who’s the f---ing mastermind here? Me or you?”

I never said ALL Muslims were suicide bombers. Just as there are rabid Christians that would do anything to convert someone and "save" them, there are Muslims who are willing do die, and believe that killing other people is what they are called to do. My point was that all the recent terror attacks against US interests, for about the last 10 years have been carried out by Arabs. The Embasy bombings in Kenya, Al Qaeda (Arabs), the Bali bombings (Muslim Extremists). Those are just two examples. The plan to take down 11 US airliners in one day by Ramsi Yusef, another Muslim Extremist. I realise that this isn't ALL Muslims, or ALL Arabs, and I have nothing against 99% of either group, but when you see attack after attack carried out by one specific group, it's kind of hard not to start thinking that way. I'm not blindly saying that Muslims are bad, and trying to kill me, just one small group of Muslim Extremists.

Or are you going to say that every news story saying it was a Muslim extremist is a lie to make us hate Muslims?

[edit on 23-6-2005 by Zaphod58]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Someone please tell us how!
There are thousand of threads discussing building 7, but not one has said how it fell.
All people say was that it was demolished. HOW!?

Building 7 was inaccesable.
Building 7 was heavily damaged on the south side.
Building 7 was on fire.
We know all that. So tell me how was a demolition crew able to come out of no where and do in hours - in a damaged buring building that they couldn't reach - what would usually take weeks?

On monday 10 september 2001, FEMA S&R teams went into the WTC complex.

Someone please tell us what!
What's the conspiricy?
Building 7 was going to have to come down anyway. Let's say a demo crew did magically appear and bring down the building. How does that prove conspiricy?
Holy explosives batman! Someone just "pulled" a condemned building! Something sinister must be afloat!
"but, but...they're covering up blah blah blah"
There's no proof anyone's covering up anything. If it's somehow proven that the building was brought down by explosives, there's no reason not to come out and say it. The building was going to come down anyway and no one died or anything. As it stands now, there's no proof at all.
"but, but...it fell so perfectly blah blah blah"

With it's size, shape (big role), weight, and with the extent of the damage, how else was the building going to fall?
It'd be a lot of help too to see the videos again of it falling (not that gif). Certainly not perfect, and definately not characteristic of a controlled demo.

I have Posted videos about 5 of them.......ALL point in the direction of a demolition. Why don't you get it...

Hey, if I'm wrong on all this...I'm wrong. I have no problem with being wrong. If the big bad government is going around demolishing damaged buildings then I guess we should all be scared. But please provide credible proof, not the freakin' opinions of a bunch of nonexperts with a preset anti-government mindset.

ALL of these people are saying demolition brought down WTC7......Also a former cheif economist is opinionating it:

5.9 References:

Davidowitz, David (Consolidated Edison). 2002. Personal communication on the continuity of power to WTC 7. April.

Flack and Kurtz, Inc. 2002. Oral communication providing engineering explanation of the emergency generators and related diesel oil tanks and distribution systems. April.

Lombardi, Francis J. (Port Authority of New York and New Jersey). 2002. Letter concerning WTC 7 fireproofing. April 25.

Odermatt, John T. (New York City Office of Emergency Management). 2002. Letter regarding OEM tanks at WTC 7.

Rommel, Jennifer (New York State Department of Environmental Conservation). 2002. Oral communication regarding a November 12, 2001, letter about diesel oil recovery and spillage. April.

Salvarinas, John J. 1986. "Seven World Trade Center, New York, Fabrication and Construction Aspects," Canadian Structural Engineering Conference.

Silverstein Properties. 2002. Annotated floor plans and riser diagrams of the emergency generators and related diesel oil tanks and distribution systems. March.

What more do you want. War is the best possible motive for this attack. It's as simple as that, either you take it or you leave it. Both countries (US/UK) still went to war over nothing more but a little piece of paper that says Saddam has WMDs and links to AL-Q, when he clearly did not also now LOTS and LOTS of people are making huge profits from this terrible act.(It makes me sick to think of it this way but its the plain simple truth wether we like it or not.)

peace

[edit on 23/6/05 by Hunting Veritas]

Originally posted by Hunting Veritas
On monday 10 september 2001, FEMA S&R teams went into the WTC complex.

If that's true then......that changes absoultely nothing. Thanks for that pointless piece of info.

You didn't answer my question.

I have Posted videos about 5 of them.......ALL point in the direction of a demolition. Why don't you get it...

lol
Well then tell me what kind of demolition was it? Since you seem to be an expert. How did they make it fall like that? How much explosives did they use?

Oh and you still didn't answer my question....again.

ALL of these people are saying demolition brought down WTC7......Also a former cheif economist is opinionating it:
..
..

Did you not read what I said??

What more do you want. War is the best possible motive for this attack. It's as simple as that, either you take it or you leave it.

Are you kidding?
The US could have EASILY went to war without the attack. Look how many times we attacked Iraq under Clinton. Look at the first Gulf War, was there an attack on us then? No.


I wish I lived in your world where terrorists don't exsist and only the government kills people. Nothing like this has happened before so, it's a once in a 200+ year thing. I like my chances of not being killed by the government

I thought it was interesting, Empire state is alot older than the WTC..

Ya, and the pyramids are older than my house, but they are less likely to collapse.

The Empire State Building was built in a completely different way to the WTC, there was huge amounts of reinforced concrete used in it, there was nowhere near the same sort of strength in the WTC because it was built differently.

And just as comparing my house to the pyramids is like comparing apples and oranges, so is comparing the WTC to the Empire State building.

Thatsjustweird, you are cracking me up as usual.

When you said:

"Building 7 was inaccesable. *WHO CARES*

Building 7 was heavily damaged on the south side. *Yes ONE side!, and heavily? That's relative*

Building 7 was on fire. *DUH, but to what extent???*

We know all that. So tell me how was a demolition crew able to come out of no where and do in hours - in a damaged buring building that they couldn't reach - what would usually take weeks?"
*That's EXACTLY what we WANT to know. Do you not understand the implications of controlled demolition on -any- of the buildings during 911? you make it sound like even if 7 was deliberately destroyed it was ok because it was already damage. What kind of crack are you on?

That's all I want to know. *Typical sheep response considering you are not taking everything into light*


And also in another post you said this:

Are you kidding?
"The US could have EASILY went to war without the attack. Look how many times we attacked Iraq under Clinton. Look at the first Gulf War, was there an attack on us then? No."

Uhh.. you are only partially right. I'll be my bottom dollar on if it wasn't for this "911" certain legislation would not have passed... IE, PATRIOT ACT (and now Patriot act II... and other stuff I'd really not like to mention at the moment.

Get a grip man.



[edit on 23-6-2005 by TxSecret]

Originally posted by NoJustice
People like ThatsJustWeird and cmdrpaddy, however, do not WANT to believe so no matter what you show them they will deny deny deny.

I don't want to believe what? That the government is out to get me?

Get real man, I know good and well our government is corrupt. Name one government that isn't? And they have done some atrocious things.
That doesn't mean they're responsible for every bad thing that happens.

I'm not denying anything......mainly because you haven't shown me anything to deny. No one has yet to provide credible proof that the government was directly involved with the planning and carrying out of 9/11. People's opinions mean nothing if they can't back them up.

Why are YOU in denial that there are terrorists out there willing to do something like that?

They choose to take the blue pill, they want the world to be happy and without fear.

Are you kidding???
Taking the "blue pill" means there really are terrorists.
Taking the "red pill" means only the government is bad. And like I said before since they only seem to strike once every 200+ years, taking the red pill would make me happy and without fear since I'd be long gone before their next stike.

If enough Americans would stop blue pilling it we could work together and get a real representative Government in place that stands for the people. Not these scumbags that care nothing about us. It's becoming a lot like Nazi Germany, those people didn't know what was going on. Hitler was even Time Magazine's Man of the Year (just like Bush) Many of the Nazi's were average citizens registered in the military. Don't think it can't happen to you or something even worse. Deny ignorance I think is a pretty popular saying around here, that's what we've got to do. Stop blindly trusting your television set and think for yourself.

Dude, you need to listen to your own advice.
Stop blindly trusting what you read on the internet and think for yourself. I come to my conclusions through much research and investigation. Having access to stuff most people don't have also helps.
I do that as opposed to most here who form their opinions based on what some website says, knowing full well the website is extremely biased to start out with.

Oh, and read a history book once in a while (especially about Nazi Germany). You may learn something.

Now for the many people on here like me that take the red pill and question authority, I have much respect for you. You may get called crazy, psycho, or if many in our Government have their say you may even be labeled a terrorist. But you have to stand up for what you believe in and never back down.

You're still young. You'll hopefully learn in time.
You think questioning authority makes you special?

You think you have the upper hand or know more about what's going on in the world because you question authority?


Sorry bud, but it doesn't work that way. Hopefully one day you'll be in a place of authority so you'll understand why.
F yeah you should question authority when they need to be questioned! I am in no way saying you shouldn't. But at least have a reason. And be able to back up your reasons. Otherwise, if you go around hating things for no reason....you'll end up a very sad and lonely person. Not to mention being a rebel without a cause just makes you look stupid.

Yes stand up for what you believe in. But never have a closed mind.
When people realized the earth was round, they had to change their beliefs.
There's overwhelming evidence the earth is round(ish). The evidence that suggest that terrorists actually carried out the attacks on 9/11 is overwhelming. Why do you want so bad for the earth to be flat still? Why do you want so bad for the government and not terrorists to be involved?
I know you probably won't change your mind (ignorance is bliss afterall and everyone loves to be blissful) but what would one have to show you for you to believe there are terrorists in the world?

Ok, uh huh sure.

There's evidence WTC building 7 was demolished by controlled demolition, you choose to ignore it.

Bin Laden worked with the CIA in the 80's and the Bushes and the Bin Ladens are family friends, you choose to ignore it.

All of the evidence of 9/11 was destroyed, which is pretty backwards from any other case you'd ever here of. You'd think they want to evidence so they could prove who did it, you choose to ignore it.

The Patriot Act is here and many parts of the constitution are taken away, you choose to ignore it.

NORAD stood down for the first time in it's 50 year history. The Government's story is that they told NORAD they were going to perform drills of Planes flying into buildings on that exact date, you choose to ignore it.

Operation Northwood was a document from the 60's that talked about flying planes into buildings to get the people behind a war with Cuba, yet our Government had never heard of planes flying into buildings before, you choose to ignore it.

When they come staple your head with a verichip, are you going to choose to ignore it?

You don't have "special privledges" to things we don't and you know it. The only thing you have is a closed mind. Even if you did have this so called "access" if it comes from the Government, then of course it's not going to say "we're guilty" So who'd you get it from, Dan Rather?

You believe 19 terrorists overpowered the most secure, powerful Government in the world all by themselves. Were able to hijack a plane in midair and land it perfectly into the World Trade Center, without being taken out even though most people know there's no way that would happen with how we watch the skies. Isn't that kind of far fetched? Not for you though, because you're Television said so.

You believe a terrorists passport was found unscathed close to the world trade center after it went through a burning building. Isn't that kind of far fetched?

Sorry to tell you bud, but I call bulls***. I really don't care if you like it or not, want to believe it or not. It still doesn't change the fact that you're being lied to and it hasn't crossed your narrow mind yet. No Superpower has ever *NOT* eventually turned on their people. Maybe you should research that. But you think you're special because you live in the United States. You think you're special because your history class tells you how America is the only country that matters and every other part of the world except Europe are worthless terrorists?

There is tons of evidence of a cover up on that day that you refuse to look at, which I think fits better with you own world being flat point.

And you know don't even bother replying with the same old "prove it" The evidence is there and you'd be the only juror out of 12 to not convict. Why is it in your head that all of this is a lie and that you believe one in a million coincidences the Government tells you? Answer that question to yourself.

Are you kidding???
Taking the "blue pill" means there really are terrorists.
Taking the "red pill" means only the government is bad. And like I said before since they only seem to strike once every 200+ years, taking the red pill would make me happy and without fear since I'd be long gone before their next stike.

So you're afraid of terrorists in other countries are out to get you? I'd be more afraid of other violent Americans trying to rob and shoot me than someone from the Middle East coming directly to my town and blow me up. Just shows how brainwashed you are from the news. Take a couple weeks, turn your television off and see how much clearer you'll be able to think. Seriously, try it.









[edit on 23-6-2005 by NoJustice]

Damage to the south side of the skyscraper is irrelevant to the collapse. The only thing that really matters is the steel support beams in the center. the south side could practically not exist and it would still stand with the support beams. They design them like that for a reason.

Originally posted by NoJustice
There's evidence WTC building 7 was demolished by controlled demolition, you choose to ignore it.

Show me the evidence. How can I ignore something when you haven't even shown me anything.

Bin Laden worked with the CIA in the 80's and the Bushes and the Bin Ladens are family friends, you choose to ignore it.

This subject hasn't even came up until now, so how can I ignore something that wasn't even discussed?

btw, what does Bin Laden's family who have basically disowned Osama, have to do with anything?

All of the evidence of 9/11 was destroyed, which is pretty backwards from any other case you'd ever here of. You'd think they want to evidence so they could prove who did it, you choose to ignore it.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to say.

What evidence was destroyed?

The Patriot Act is here and many parts of the constitution are taken away, you choose to ignore it.

I'm ignoring it how? By saying terrorists were responsible for 9/11.
Don't make me laugh

Read the PA btw. All of it.

NORAD stood down for the first time in it's 50 year history. The Government's story is that they told NORAD they were going to perform drills of Planes flying into buildings on that exact date, you choose to ignore it.

Again, this hasn't even been brought up to now, so how exactly am I ignoring something that hasn't been discussed.
And please go over the links provided because that what you just said is horribly wrong.

When they come staple your head with a verichip, are you going to choose to ignore it?

This has nothing to do with the discussion nevertheless I can guarentee you I'm more AGAINST the verichip and all that than you.

You don't have "special privledges" to things we don't and you know it.

That's a pretty ignorant statement.
How exactly did you come to this conclusion?

I'm not even going to waste any more time on this (as it's ridiculous), but just know I have no reason to lie.

You believe 19 terrorists overpowered the most secure, powerful Government in the world all by themselves.

they hijacked planes, they didn't overpower the government? What are you talking about?

Were able to hijack a plane in midair and land it perfectly into the World Trade Center

You do realize this isn't the first hijacking in history. It can and has been done before. Of course it was in midair where they going to do it on the ground and get caught?
"Land it perfectly into the WTC"

They didn't land anything. They crashed into it. How exactly was their crashing into a building considered perfect?

You're really reaching son.

without being taken out even though most people know there's no way that would happen with how we watch the skies.

Man, your ignorance astounds me.
We watch the skies for enemy aircraft. Pre 9/11, a hijacking was extremely possible. If you think otherwise, we'll you're being very ignorant.
Wow man. You're starting to scare me.

Isn't that kind of far fetched? Not for you though, because you're Television said so.

No because like millions around the world people saw it live.
Don't you think missiles coming from no where or explosives being placed unnoticed and going off unnoticed is a bit far fetched? Not for you, because you're internet said so.

What do you believe those planes were? Since no planes were hijacked, what were the planes that crashed into the buildings and what happened to the missing planes? How do you account for the dozens of phone calls from the planes describing what was happening?

You believe a terrorists passport was found unscathed close to the world trade center after it went through a burning building. Isn't that kind of far fetched?

Not sure what you're talking about....Or where you got that from....

Maybe you should research that. But you think you're special because you live in the United States.

Ahh this may explain alot.
I take it you're not from the US?

You think you're special because your history class tells you how America is the only country that matters and every other part of the world except Europe are worthless terrorists?

There is tons of evidence of a cover up on that day that you refuse to look at, which I think fits better with you own world being flat point.

How am I going to look at it when you don't present it?
What is it that's hard to understand? If the evidence is there, show us.
I'm not sure how to make that clearer...

And you know don't even bother replying with the same old "prove it" The evidence is there and you'd be the only juror out of 12 to not convict.

This is a load of bull.
This country has a policy of innocent until proven guilty. Not guilty until proven innocent. The burden falls on you to prove guilt. I have no reason to put all the blame on the government until you give me a reason.

Why is it in your head that all of this is a lie and that you believe one in a million coincidences the Government tells you? Answer that question to yourself.

Not sure what you're saying...

So you're afraid of terrorists in other countries are out to get you? I'd be more afraid of other violent Americans trying to rob and shoot me than someone from the Middle East coming directly to my town and blow me up. Just shows how brainwashed you are from the news. Take a couple weeks, turn your television off and see how much clearer you'll be able to think. Seriously, try it.

This is sad. Wow.

So do this for me, take a couple weeks, don't go to any of those "news" sites you get your news from. Do some real investigations and see how much clearer you'll be able to think. Please, try it. For your own good.

Hallfofone and Nojustice... well put.

I still want these questions answered:

In buildings to be destroyed -intentionally- WHY on earth do demolition experts set explosives up VERY specifically and time them just right? (i'm talking about high rise buildings here)

WHY didn't ALL of the federal Murah building in Oklahoma come down all at once instead of just part of it after it was bombed?

WHAT do you think would happen if you took a building like WTC7 and just knocked out half of the support collumns on one side?

WHY was there no REAL indication of any fire/damage across ALL of ANY floor of WTC7? There were no major fires in WTC7, and none of them burned across any floor in it's entirety. I mean come on.. -anyone- with any common sense would understand after looking at that building collapse that there would have to be -consistant- damage across an entire floor AT THE BOTTOM for it to even possibly fall the way it did without explosives.


Can't answer them can you???

There's a such thing that if I have an explanation that you may not like, it's the right one until you can prove the explanation wrong. You haven't proved anything to discredit the information given on this topic by me, or anyone else posting.

NoJustice,
.
Thank you.


MOD EDIT--- Do not over post a word. its brings nothing to the thread.

[edit on 23-6-2005 by asala]

Very very mature, and you being in Ireland what makes you think you know what's going on in America?

I don't sit here and try to insult your intelligence on Castles or how to drink alcohol.

[edit on 23-6-2005 by NoJustice]