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Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
"Wasn't this thread closed?
Should have stayed that way.
I know this was addressed. But just to reiterate, the buildings were tested for much smaller airplanes crashing into them. And those test did not include damage done as a result of the fires from the crash."
"Minimal structural damage? Are you kidding?
The structural damage was more responsible for the collapse than the fires. Take a knife and slice it through a house/tower of cards and see what happens."
"You all make think only the US government is out to kill you but I'm sorry to say, there really are terrorists out there whether you want to believe that or not. "
"Want to blame the government? Go ahead. We shouldn't have had such a nonchalont, "nah, they'd never do that" attitude. But trying to create conspiricies where there is none? Come on..."
Originally posted by akilles
Want to blame the government? Go ahead. Well, they ARE to blame, you understand? Hell, its still your attitude, the Powers that Be would never scapegoat another religion and tell us most of them are fundaMENTALs "nah, they'd never do that", is your response.
And yeah, perfect example. Any one ever take a knife to a house of cards? Bet it collapsed when those super light cards fell on top of the other cards, even though you thought they were too light to do any damage? Well, one MAJOR assumption missing here, who ever BUILT A BUILDING like a house of cards? With a little glue or tape, a house of cards would be find, so its not really the 'be-all, end-all' in examples.
A Bomber flew in the Empire State Building at the end of WWII. To make that clear, the tallest building in the World at the time was crashed into by a plane carrying enough fuel to cross the Atlantic. Yet only three floors burned, and the building did not come close to collapsing... I guess they were using regular gasoline, or something?
Terrorists are willingly or unwittingly working for intelligence agencies, terrorist activity is 'bought'.
Originally posted by mbkennel
It's well known that the strength of steel decreases significantly when it is heated.
It got very very hot for a significant length of time.
Why do buildings go "straight down" when demolished by expert explosives? Because of gravity. The collapse is not because of explosives, but because of gravity.
And when the internal support columns are all evenly heated past their load limits, as would happen in a huge, intense fire, the same thing would happen. Remember, there is also "dynamic" loading, as in when one part collapses the weight hits the other part, which now collapses from the instantaneous shock because it also is barely at its load limit thanks to the fire.
People seem to think that they would "fall over" in one direction or another naturally.
Why? They go straight down because there's no reason to go any other direction.
Special effects in movies are designed to look cool, not be scientifically accurate.
They were built so that the forces are 'straight down' so that they could stay up. They weigh about the same everywhere in their cross section. They're very heavy and from a long way away you can't see any random side to side fluctuation during the collapse.
It's just physics.
If large buildings caught on fire so violently we'd see it happening more often, but fortunately it doesn't.
Silverstein was a commercial investor who wanted to make money on his buildings with rents. There's no way the collapse and insurance payoffs on this is anywhere near as profitable as if it had continued as a commercial concern. He'd be getting rents for four years on now, and he'd still have the building.
Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Just because I think terrorists were responsible for 9/11, I believe evverything the gov tells me? Get real.
Originally posted by Zaphod58
There is no way that I can see for WTC 7 to be in the middile of this collapse and NOT take damage from it.
Here's damage to the side of the building. I have no idea what the page it's posted on says, but here's the pic.
I just saw my first picture of the "pod" that the planes were "carrying" when they hit the WTC, it's called a "wheel well". If you ever look at a plane that's flying with the landing gear retracted, they ALL have that shape under the wings. Well ok, not ALL. Some have the gear out under the wings, but any plane like that 767 that has the gear under the fuselage, has that shape under it.
[edit on 22-6-2005 by Zaphod58]
Firehouse: Other people tell me that there were a lot of firefighters in the street who were visible, and they put out traffic cones to mark them off?
Hayden: Yeah. There was enough there and we were marking off. There were a lot of damaged apparatus there that were covered. We tried to get searches in those areas. By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.
Firehouse:Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.
Boyle: A little north of Vesey I said, we’ll go down, let’s see what’s going on. A couple of the other officers and I were going to see what was going on. We were told to go to Greenwich and Vesey and see what’s going on. So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good.
But they had a hoseline operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too. Then we received an order from Fellini, we’re going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn’t look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn’t really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I’m standing next to said, that building doesn’t look straight. So I’m standing there. I’m looking at the building. It didn’t look right, but, well, we’ll go in, we’ll see.
So we gathered up rollups and most of us had masks at that time. We headed toward 7. And just around we were about a hundred yards away and Butch Brandies came running up. He said forget it, nobody’s going into 7, there’s creaking, there are noises coming out of there, so we just stopped. And probably about 10 minutes after that, Visconti, he was on West Street, and I guess he had another report of further damage either in some basements and things like that, so Visconti said nobody goes into 7, so that was the final thing and that was abandoned.
Firehouse:When you looked at the south side, how close were you to the base of that side?
Boyle: I was standing right next to the building, probably right next to it.
Firehouse:When you had fire on the 20 floors, was it in one window or many?
Boyle: There was a huge gaping hole and it was scattered throughout there. It was a huge hole. I would say it was probably about a third of it, right in the middle of it. And so after Visconti came down and said nobody goes in 7, we said all right, we’ll head back to the command post. We lost touch with him. I never saw him again that day.
We ended up getting back to the command post at Broadway and Vesey. By that time, there were probably 50 officers standing in a row. And I was like, I’m not going to stand on another line like that. So we came down with Fox. I knew Fox was somewhere. So we found out that Fox was over at Cortlandt and Church. They were putting a tower ladder into operation, so we made our way over to there. We ended up helping.
They had no pressure at all off of any of the hydrants from Broadway. He was asking if there was any way that we could do anything at Broadway or West. From Broadway to West westward toward Church Street there was no pressure at all. We spotted one of the squads up on Cortlandt over by Broadway and he was hooked up to a hydrant, and it was running. There was nobody there. I don’t know which squad it was, but you know they were in there. We were just sitting there, so we stretched the line off of him. We relayed it to 274, who relayed it to another engine down the street and eventually we got more pressure. I think it was 22 Truck on Church and Cortlandt and they were operating to number 5.
We did that for a little while. It took a while to get the hose there because there was a White Plains company helping us and they had some different fittings. So we got water to 22, but then that’s when they said all right, number 7 is coming down, shut everything down. I don’t know what time that was. It was all just a blur.
Firehouse: Did they shut the tower lines and remove them from there?
Boyle: No, just left them. Everything was left where it was. Just shut everything down, moved everybody back.
Firehouse: Could you see building 7 again from there?
Boyle: Seven, no. You got a half block away, you couldn’t see it, couldn’t see a damn thing. All we heard was they were worried about it coming down, everybody back away. We ran into the people running around for water for the eyes because everybody’s eyes were burned and I don’t know who they were. I think it was the doctor and some other people. They were just running around, washing people’s eyes out.
We were there about an hour or so until number 7 came down and everything was black again.
Originally posted by Barcs
ThatsJustWierd: You're entire post was full of flaws. You claimed there was no evidence of explosions. Did you watch the news that day. EVERY CHANNEL reported explosions before the collapse.
You also said that there was no proof of what silverstien said, well that's already been disproven.
You even said there are hardly any buildings that catch fire or there would be more collapses. You couldn't be further from the truth.
The Windsor building in madrid, spain burned for nearly 2 days. That is MUCH more damaged than building 7. and look! No collapse! The structure remained intact.
I've watched it over and over and over. There were no explosions. I encourage you to watch it again. If there were explosions, the building would NOT have collapsed the way it did.
When you have a plane crash, with a large fire like this you will have secondary explosions. Not everything in a plane that can explode does in a crash always, unless it's a nose dive or into a mountain and everything goes up at once. There were puddles of fuel on other floors, as the fire reached them they could sound like explosions in some cases. There could have been offices that went up with a bang.... There were things in the building that could have sounded like explosives, without BEING explosives.