Originally posted by Zaphod58
the 15 series wasn't designed for close in dogfighting.
- Wow, talk about 'revisionism' at work?
Sorry but this is plain wrong.
The F15 series was all about dogfighting from the moment the design requirement went out.
It was precisely because this aspect of fighter design was found to be lacking in the F4 Phantom compared to the Mig 21 that USAF thinkers wanted it
brought back and taken to a level where the F15 (and for that matter the F14 and later the F16 & F18 etc) would dominate all current and all likely
In the same way that, earlier, some had claimed guns had lost their point but later were found to be very useful and of high value so a similar story
emerged regarding the dog-fighting fighter.
I suggest you look closely at the original FX requirements that brought about the F15 program if you don't know this.
more than anything, absolutely primarily and explicitly designed to be the most agile and capable dogfighter in the sky; right from the
Look at that wing and body, those 2 powerful motors; all designed to provide enormous lift and power - with great agility coming from such a huge
lighly loaded wing coupled with a thrust to weight ratio of over 1:1.
The fact that F15A onward (until the E varient) were all optimised 'fighters' should tell you all you need to know about the design intentions.
(First F15A flight 1972, F15A entered service 1976)
It was always designed for BVR work
- Yes, that too. Of course.....how could it not
have been designed for BVR work too?
But absolutely not
in the manner that, say, the Tornado ADV (the fighter varient) was optimised for BVR work with no real regard, or
requirement given the expected operating environment, for close in operations.
, and the E model was designed to be a "mud mover" that carried missiles to defend itself when necessary.
- The fact that the F15E was so late on in the scheme of things should be telling you something. (first flight 1986 entered service 1988)
The F15E was as much about the traditional old 'made in America' ethos as anything.
They could have bought Tornado (IDS attack varient) to replace their F111's but instead chose to have flight systems and software do their best to
turn a lightly wing loaded dogfighter into an attack plane (and did a pretty good job of it too, bar the ultra fast ultra low level stuff where
Tornado - or F111 for that matter - are still 'king') and I suppose they retained a degree of commonality with the earlier types.
I just would like to see how it does against something that was designed for close in A2A, so we could compare apples to apples.
- If a 2 seat training version of Typhoon (in other words not the single seater optimised fighter) 'mullered' a lightly loaded F15E I think we have
a good idea that we were seeing something very close to like for like.
It's pretty obvious that - if this story is true - the Typhoon would be handing the F15 pilot's a$$es back in a sling (accepting reasonably equal
But let's get real, this is only how it should be given the advances in tech and design between the two types.
[edit on 20-6-2005 by sminkeypinkey]