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Can we finally settle this Chemtrail thing?

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posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 10:57 PM
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Well, this better work! You remember what happened last time when the absorption was supposd to take hold before liftoff.

I'm still getting the fallout from that little "accident".

[edit on 26-6-2005 by Off_The_Street]




posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 11:11 PM
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Chemtrails are an evil right wing conspiracy between air pressure and water vapor. The lines have been drawn. AP and WV will attack any time now. The possibility of further attacks by these evil co-conspirators is Severe. The Office of Chemtrail Security can only offer the following advice: Duck and Cover.


dh

posted on Jun, 27 2005 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by Off_The_Street
dh says:

[You see, dh, as the elevation increases the temperature drops; this is why you can see snow at Rocky Mountain National Park in July.

And as the temperature drops, the absolute amount of water required for saturation decreases dramatically, just like the amount of a solute like sugar to saturate a solvent like tap water decreases when the solvent is colder.



off-the-street's rampant sun-symbolist avatar also interests me


That's nice. It's always good for a person to be interested. However, we're talking about the "chem-trail" hoax. Why are you changing the subject?


Are you trying to present us with something?



[edit on 26-6-2005 by Off_The_Street]


First off, I'm trying to find out what your confidently expressed so-called science actually means. The volume, spread and maintenance of output is without doubt off kilter, but I've increasing doubts about what this phenomenon actually means, and don't necessarily acept that it derivation is from earthbound Newtonian physics, which is more feed to take the piss out of
As for going off-topic I don't believe I do
Those repeated interceptors have an agenda on their hands without a doubt, and their hands is what I'm probably playing into - apologies to the much respected Anok- who has always kept a straight line on the issues
Lol to OTS, apc etc - I like your little self-congratulatory slaps - some of us are not beyond taking the piss out ourselves, - as if the divisions were objective reality or something

No change of subject intended - just the same continuum


[edit on 27-6-2005 by dh]



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 11:39 AM
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Is it just me or is there something fishy about those flight paths?

Chemtrail or not, it seems rather expensive for jet aircraft to make an about face. I certainly hope this is not the same plane. Whew, maybe they need to do more pilot sobriety tests.


apc

posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by astrocreep
Is it just me or is there something fishy about those flight paths?

Chemtrail or not, it seems rather expensive for jet aircraft to make an about face. I certainly hope this is not the same plane. Whew, maybe they need to do more pilot sobriety tests.

Ahahaha oh comeon I know you know those are holding patterns

Although... you may be correct... Im sure plenty of pilots get wasted to ease their concerns regarding evil Arabs with nail clippers.



posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by apc

Ahahaha oh comeon I know you know those are holding patterns



They still look cool. Like highway skid marks. Ya look at them and think, "what the hell happened here?"

Actually, I once saw this kind of pattern no where near an airport and even saw a couple of the planes making the actual 180 degree turns. I wondered about that but it was not long after 9-11-01 so I figured they were being diverted.


dh

posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by astrocreep


Is it just me or is there something fishy about those flight paths?



You can't tell without seeing the progression of the trails, how they develop or disintegrate, what's on the ground that might be influencing for good or ill, whether there's any sylph intercession
Of course you think the latter idea nonsense, don't you


apc

posted on Jun, 28 2005 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by dh
You can't tell without seeing the progression of the trails, how they develop or disintegrate, what's on the ground that might be influencing for good or ill,

Huh? Are you trying to say there might be something on the ground causing the planes to turn around? Or are you trying to say the "spray" is for the purpose of dropping something over a specific target on the ground? The latter being something you know full well wouldn't work...



whether there's any sylph intercession
Of course you think the latter idea nonsense, don't you


Originally posted by apc
The last thing I would do is make the massively ignorant mistake of making claims I clearly have no way to support or justify.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by apc
The last thing I would do is make the massively ignorant mistake of making claims I clearly have no way to support or justify.




So why do you argue against chemtrails then?

You have no way to support or justify the non-existence of chemtrails.
I know that's trying to prove a negative but my point is the only thing you have is your science on contrails. Which we all agree with...LOL

Why does it seem so far fetched to you guys? Do you believe the government would never do such a thing? History shows that they have wanted to "own the weather" since WWII.

But I'm with you'll on the people getting sick and the fall-out on the ground stuff. I've heard the stories but not seen it for myself, so I keep an open mind.
Because far stranger things have happend, especialy when government is involved. And if you don't believe that you're living in La La Land...

AP&F...



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 03:53 AM
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Originally posted by ANOK
So why do you argue against chemtrails then?

There is not evidence for chemtrails, just a few of paranoid people who keep going on about them.



You have no way to support or justify the non-existence of chemtrails.
I know that's trying to prove a negative but my point is the only thing you have is your science on contrails. Which we all agree with...LOL

What is your point? You are asking him to prove a negative although you then admit this is wrong? Us skeptics "only" have our science. What have you guys got? Nothing.



Why does it seem so far fetched to you guys? Do you believe the government would never do such a thing?

Just because something is theorectically possible doesn't mean it is happening. What is far fetched anyway? Which particular chemtrail theory are you talking about? Weather modification? To poison people? Or my favourite - that the contrails are in some way alive and doing battle with creatures from Saturn (thankyou dh for this gem).



History shows that they have wanted to "own the weather" since WWII.

This is such a meaningless statement. Who is they? And what does "own the weather" mean?



Because far stranger things have happend, especialy when government is involved. And if you don't believe that you're living in La La Land...

And what makes you think that the government is invloved in whatever it is you think is going on? I think you have already bought up all the best real estate in La La land.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 05:47 AM
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Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
I think you have already bought up all the best real estate in La La land.



Well # me I didn't realise, so I guess because YOU think it's stupid then it obviously can't be happening?

Who are you!

I can understand you not believing to a point, with all the crazy theories going around. But they're just peoples theories. Just because I think something's going on does not mean I buy into those theories.
And crazy theories shouldn't close your mind to the possibility that something is going on.

I'm not gonna argue on the subject anymore, anything else I post on chem trails will be for discussion with other open minded people only...
Neither side at this point can win this argument, so what's the point in throwing # at each other?
It's obvious you guys care more about trying to sensor peoples thinking, by making them look stupid, than you are discussing subjects outside of what you normally discuss around your office water cooler.

Yeah the military, and other agencies of the government, have never sprayed chemicals on unsuspecting populations before


www.washingtonwatchdog.org...

home.iae.nl...

Testing on military members is real, look how many Gulf War Vets are now sick with unexplainable symptoms. I am a Gulf Vet myself and have the symptoms.

The latest drug found in "Gulf War guinea pigs" is squalene, an unapproved synthetic adjuvant compound believed to boost the effect of immunizations. Many Gulf War soldiers (including those who did not see action) who are suffering from "Gulf War syndrome" and were given inoculations during the war, have tested positive for squalene antibodies, proving that they were somehow exposed to this synthetic compound. There also appears to be a correlation between the level of squalene exposure and severity of "Gulf War syndrome" symptomology, such that more squalene = more illness.

www.whale.to...

Don't try to tell me the government wouldn't do experiments, such as spraying chemicals from aircraft.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
I think you have already bought up all the best real estate in La La land.



Well # me I didn't realise, so I guess because YOU think it's stupid then it obviously can't be happening?

Who are you!



Whoa, lets keep it civil, people. No need for this to turn into something from the mudpit. We should all be open to a reality that might not be in line with our OPINION. And, I doubt any of us has any personal stake (aside from health issues) in this one way or another so take it easy.

Look, on one hand we have no proof that this is going on. Thats going to have to be remedied before we cast it in stone.

On the other hand, we have a patent for the device to carry it out and a reccomendation made to do it to fight global warming.


That doesn't mean its actually being done but it means the potential exists.

So, I say both sides need to accept the points of the other.

These trails are easily explainable so long as they dicipate moderatly fast. Others require more explaination that may include none-conventional causes.



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by ANOK
Well # me I didn't realise, so I guess because YOU think it's stupid then it obviously can't be happening?

I don't think it is happening because there is no evidence it is happening. I think the US invading Iraq was stupid, but there is probably enough evidence to conclude it happened.



Yeah the military, and other agencies of the government, have never sprayed chemicals on unsuspecting populations before


They are currently spraying poisons over the people of Columbia in a (failed attempt) to eliminate the coca crop. And I'm sure they military have sprayed noxious chemicals on other occasions. I've never denied this, but what has it got to do with "chemtrails"?



Testing on military members is real, look how many Gulf War Vets are now sick with unexplainable symptoms. I am a Gulf Vet myself and have the symptoms.

The latest drug found in "Gulf War guinea pigs" is squalene, an unapproved synthetic adjuvant compound believed to boost the effect of immunizations. Many Gulf War soldiers (including those who did not see action) who are suffering from "Gulf War syndrome" and were given inoculations during the war, have tested positive for squalene antibodies, proving that they were somehow exposed to this synthetic compound. There also appears to be a correlation between the level of squalene exposure and severity of "Gulf War syndrome" symptomology, such that more squalene = more illness.

www.whale.to...


As usual there is no evidence to support "chemtrails" so you start presenting evidence on something else entirely, in this case Gulf War syndrome, hoping it will somehow prop up your other argument. It is totally irrelevant.


apc

posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 08:16 AM
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*itches furiously*

ACK, ANOK!!!



Are there patents on the operation of a spray program to pump aluminum and barium dust into the atmosphere? Yes. Is it happening? Unlikely.. the radar screens say so atleast.

One should really take a gander at some of the other patents that are out there... you'll be much surprised at just what's been thought up, and how little of it is actually in practice.

If the existance of a patent is the only leg this issue is standing on... well...



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by astrocreep
Whoa, lets keep it civil, people. No need for this to turn into something from the mudpit. We should all be open to a reality that might not be in line with our OPINION. And, I doubt any of us has any personal stake (aside from health issues) in this one way or another so take it easy.

OK, fair enough. I've been doing all my typing with a grin on my face...



Look, on one hand we have no proof that this is going on.

And that pretty much sums this whole debacle up. All we do have is paranoia and certain people intentionally carrying out a hoax.



On the other hand, we have a patent for the device to carry it out and a reccomendation made to do it to fight global warming.

There isn't any patent for a machine that will create "chemtrails". There are patents for devices to arial spraying from planes, nobody is denying this.



So, I say both sides need to accept the points of the other.

But what are the points of the "believers"? That "contrails look different from when I was kid and I'm a bit paranoid therefore they are spraying chemicals". No, I won't accept that.



These trails are easily explainable so long as they dicipate moderatly fast. Others require more explaination that may include none-conventional causes.


I'm afraid you are wrong there. Contrails do not have a set "life-span", it purely depends on the atmospheric conditions. This is all explained by conventional science. OTS et al have gone into it on numerous threads, but you might like to read: www.abovetopsecret.com... which sets it out very clearly.



posted on Jun, 30 2005 @ 02:32 PM
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Search the chem trail sites: Samples have been collected and findings are being catologed, Have been for years.

All you have to do is go out to your car(hopefully is clean...
) , and look at all those tiny spider web looking things on your cars windows, antenas, mirrors etc.... Those arent spider webs, spider webs are pretty tuff and pretty sticky....These things evaperate most of the time the min you touch them or are repelled by your touch...Go ahead, check em out....


dh

posted on Jun, 30 2005 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by ANOK
I'm not gonna argue on the subject anymore, anything else I post on chem trails will be for discussion with other open minded people only...


Difficult ANOK, in ATS, anyway. The usual set of marauders jump in at the first opportunity and disrupt the thread with their corporate 'science'
It would be interesting what a thread of the open-minded and the enquiring looked like , without the band of motivated trashers


dh

posted on Jun, 30 2005 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
To poison people? Or my favourite - that the contrails are in some way alive and doing battle with creatures from Saturn (thankyou dh for this gem).

I think you have already bought up all the best real estate in La La land.




I don't know about Saturn exactly, FatherLukeDuke, though we are part of a living Solar System, all I'm in touch with are earth-bound energy systems, and sylphs are evident daily in the sky, as are many sky anomalies around my way. No more white-outs from your con-trails, my chemtrails
The dissipation observable on a day-to-day basis
With the assistance of ground operatives, naturally


apc

posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by Freedomrik
Search the chem trail sites: Samples have been collected and findings are being catologed, Have been for years.

Recheck those sites. Recheck these threads. Go ahead, contact the labs these samples were allegedly sent to. We already have. You can't confirm the data. You can't confirm the source. Therefore, you are basing your belief on trusting those who have made a fairly profitable career out of lying to gullible people on the Internet.



All you have to do is go out to your car(hopefully is clean...
) , and look at all those tiny spider web looking things on your cars windows, antenas, mirrors etc.... Those arent spider webs, spider webs are pretty tuff and pretty sticky....These things evaperate most of the time the min you touch them or are repelled by your touch...Go ahead, check em out....

Well... she was clean before all these awesome storms. But not once have I encountered a webbing that just disappeared instantly when touched, and I'll put money on neither have you. If you mean they rapidly break down, but are still there, well sir.. you could possibly have a mold problem.
But in all reality it seems you have been underexposed in the spider department. Or how about the mite department? Locusts? GRASSHOPPERS? Eight legged arachnids spinning intricate symmetrical marvels of high tensile silken mastery are not the only kind of 'webs' being spun by insects.



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 01:17 AM
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Originally posted by dh
It would be interesting what a thread of the open-minded and the enquiring looked like , without the band of motivated trashers


Yeah that'll never happen, 'cause I'm affraid the debunkers are succeeding in their mission of turning the sheeple and fence sitters off of even looking into chemtrails...

It's become a taboo subject, due to the fear of ridicule, through the efforts of our de-bunking friends.

I mean, who wants to be labelled one of the "crazy chemies" on ATS?


"The Earth is flat I tell you!"

AP&F...



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