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NEWS: Britain's Happy Hour ends with 'Martial Law'

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posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 04:29 PM
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Ive arrested so called 'yobs and chav who are comfortably middle class, in fact i would say 90% of them are either upper working or lower middle classes.




posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 05:08 PM
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Kriz_4 here is a good example of what I was talking about in my previous post regarding the reduction in Tavarns/Bars. Chicago is not where I live, but close enough to use as a good example to make my point. Ironic that this story would come up the same day we are talking about bars.


Chicago - The city that once boasted as many 7,600 taverns in the early 1900s has just over 1,300 today. Now Mayor Richard Daley is pushing an ordinance that would make it easier to close taverns
Daley Pushes Ordinance to Close Taverns



As I stated it is the same here and we are perhaps 1/8th the size of Chicago (educated guess on my part) I am not sure what Chicagos actual population is compared to Milwaukee. I think MKE is perhaps 1 mil or less and that again is an educated guess.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 05:17 PM
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How can you say that Muaddib? Youre not a human rights expert, you dont know what you are talking about...
/end sarcasm

Any way, I thought the term "yob" comes from "boy" backwards implying the inverse of what a "good" boy should be. They are unruly, disrespectful and foul.

Also to those that are blaming human rights for this behaviour are misguided. Not all the liberal aspects of our society are to blame for this kind of behaviour. Whats to blame is soley the lack of discipline given to our children.

I grew up in the 90's and I was never a yob or disrespectful. If it was the liberal society to blame then why did I not turn out that way? My parents taught me right and wrong and most importantly taught me manners. This was backed up with the occasional smack which NEVER DID ME ANY HARM. I feel the critical step to fixing these problems in the long term is to stop interfering in how parents raise their children and to teach children manners and social responsibilty right through primary and secondary education.

A zero tolerance policy on anti-social behaviour in schools is also needed. Not ending with the exclusion of students but with loss of privledges such as recess or missing out on "treats" that the good students should enjoy.

Those that want to see human rights removed to solve this problem are going way overboard and would damage our society on a scale that would eclipse yobs a thousand fold.

With regards to using the military to help end the anti-social behaviour that is running rampant in our society - I have no problem with it. If they are arresting these people they should be charged and given a court appearance. There is no problem, as far as I am concerned, with criminals being detained so long as they are given a chance to clear their names in a court of law.

[edit on 19/6/05 by subz]



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 06:21 PM
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This is far from martial law...
There is no curfew and its only in 20 towns.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 07:30 PM
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subz, you seem to be right about where Yob came from.

This sort of thing is a problem here in Ireland as well, it isn't as serious but its still is a problem.

I have no belief in this being the fault of the EU or human rights groups, it might be their fault that these things can't be tackled in a 'no questions asked' manner, but it is not their fault that these things are happening.

I don't go out to town anymore because of the amount of lairy louts that populate the streets every night of the week.

I think the problem stems from lack of respect, for everything not just authourity, the lack of community in some areas (high rise towers and council estates were not built with communities in mind, but just as somewhere to store people) and from parents who beleive their children can do no wrong.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 07:54 PM
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Firstly, this is a good idea. I'm not a fan of a Police State but at the present moment the Chav culture that has began to spread through people my age it a bit of a joke. It is now fine for people to go out Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday night, get drunk and get violent and the crack down is needed - however the pubs need to do something to stop this as well.

However, the main people who join this whole chav sub-culture are not poor people, they are not from lower class backgrounds. They tend to be Middle to Upper class children, due to the fact they can afford it. Spending £100 a week on alcohol isn't cheap and those lower class people that take the blame can't afford it. It's simple logical fact that you need money to be able to do something such as this.

Furthermore to blame this on the courts, lawyers, human rights, etc, is a joke. I'm a law student, I know the problems with this legal system in and out - better then most people here will ever know it. Human Rights are a good thing, prior to them being brought in, innocent people were being beaten, tortured, in some cases women got raped so the Police could gain a conviction.

The Courts, now although your idea that courts have gone soft is true in some-respects this is only in the Higher level of courts where a Jury Trial is going to be used, in the lower-courts where "Yobs" get "punished" Magistrates are more likely to give a conviction. Furthermore the idea of "Mandatory" sentances are helping to fill up the Prisons, due to the fact people get commited of a "minor" crime and are locked away for a "set" period of time - which doesn't even help the problem. Couple this with the fact of the high-re-offender rate, due to the fact Prison does not work especially for drinking and drug offences it only helps create more of a problem and more of a Youth Culture.

The real solution is:
  • Pubs becoming involved and punished for fights starting in their premisses.
  • Solving under-age drinking by punishing those found doing it, harder.
  • Non-Prison or ASBO orders, but community service*
  • Banning them from pubs and being able to buy alcohol.
* If you use community service and do it in a public place the humiliation of such an act will help stop them doing it. Imagine these "hard-core" Yobs being forced to wear pink-jump-suits while picking up rubbish in a town centre. In front of their friends and peers. It would ruin them and their "image" which is what they wish to use to make themselves seem "cool".



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by cmdrpaddy
I don't go out to town anymore because of the amount of lairy louts that populate the streets every night of the week.


I hear ya Paddy, but you are talking soccer fans that love to fight, here when a bar fills up with guys in football shirts (I am talking the NFL AFL) we do not fight we just have a good time and there is nothing wrong with that.

But I would tend to agree with you if they always end up fighting that is not good.

Sorry could not resist responding to that since for some odd reason soccer fans love to fight for some reason. Why is that? Just curious and admitting my Ammerican ignorance when it comes to world Soccer.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
This is far from martial law...
There is no curfew and its only in 20 towns.


Not yet, but there will be possibly in up to 230 towns or more.


Military police and ordinary uniformed soldiers will help keep youths under control in up to 20 towns and cities near military barracks.

The strategy comes as police forces in more than 230 towns and cities begin a clampdown on disorderly behavior by alcohol-fuelled youngsters, in response to a Home Office survey showing a disturbing rise in youth crime.

Same link used in the base article posted



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by cmdrpaddy
I don't go out to town anymore because of the amount of lairy louts that populate the streets every night of the week.


I hear ya Paddy, but you are talking soccer fans that love to fight, here when a bar fills up with guys in football shirts (I am talking the NFL AFL) we do not fight we just have a good time and there is nothing wrong with that.

But I would tend to agree with you if they always end up fighting that is not good.

Sorry could not resist responding to that since for some odd reason soccer fans love to fight for some reason. Why is that? Just curious and admitting my Ammerican ignorance when it comes to world Soccer.

Think because religion is deeply involved in football...



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Think because religion is deeply involved in football...


Really? I find that rather odd since it is played world wide and so many religions would be involved. Strange for sure if that is the case.



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 03:13 AM
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Whew I thought I was reading the Daily Mail for instant ( - the Daily Mail is a tabloid newspaper well know for its right wing extremist views presented as if written by mr+Mrs concerned of Britain, even other newspapers left+right attack it !)

Britain has less crime now that it ever has but the balance of crime has changed. The streets are not lawless despite the impression given here and blamed on the EU (a moronic link!). Crime does exist to a high extent in certain areas (run-down areas and city centres) and there are 2 main and often related problems. First is binge drinking by all ages (not just youths although the majority) at the weekend and the violence that often ensues. Second is the youth gangs that congregate around street corners who don't do anything truly illegal (like mugging, grand theft etc) but are more anti-social such as intimidation of passers-by and neighbourhoods, vandalism, graffiti etc. These gangs/groups of youths are called yobs, neds and/or chavs. They have an attitude that the police can't touch them, which to an extent is true. It's not the EU (despite the obvious politiking going on here) but the inability to charge youths the same as adults. Combined with the lack of severity of the crime. Do you lock someone up for swearing and threatening a passer-by when the only evidence is a silent security camera ? There are youths who like to dress the same as the yobs/neds and what happens when a "normal" person gives them verbal abuse ? Which of the previous two situations did you see on the camera ? Tricky!

It does not help when the police themselves behave like the very same yobs/neds. There is deep distrust of a police force that will trump up charges of breach of the peace against law abiding citizens who just happen to in the way of a pissed off copper (I know of a 55 year old man in this situation, luckily a neighbour witnessed everything). There was a recent case of a youth arrested and threatened by the police in the back of the car. According to journalists, present in the court room, everybodys jaws dropped when the recorded phone evidence was produced and played. The police didn't know the young lad had recorded everything. Without that recording the youth would have been fined/jailed.

Thank god we have EU human rights legislation otherwise the police would be even worse! Lack of respect is an issue which starts in the home and there are far too many parents who don't know how to be parents. There is also far too many PC people who object to all countermeasures such as ASBO's. These PC people live in "nice" homes away from the trouble.



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 03:36 AM
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delete (sorry)

[edit on 20-6-2005 by 7th_Chakra]



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 03:53 AM
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There is not going to be Martial Law, the article has been misinterpreted.

The 20 towns that the military police are going to assist the regular police in are 'Army towns' - that is Army barracks situated in or very close by to the towns.

What has sparked the Military police going into towns is that some squaddies were being targetted by 'Yobs' because they are seen to have quite a lot of money and the squaddies were getting mugged.

Its like in the movies - where you see the Navy seamen land go into town and get drunk, cause fights and the MP's are called in. Thats all the article is about

........more media hype!!

Spacemunkey

[edit on 20-6-2005 by spacemunkey]



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 04:18 AM
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The problem isn't limited to Britain alone, take a walk around pretty much any town or city in mainland Europe and you'll find young hobbledehoys dressed the same and acting the same as our delightful youths.

The problem is exacerbated by a lack of discipline in schools (and teachers not having the support of the state to enforce it) and families that couldn't care less about their unruly broods.



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 06:21 AM
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Originally posted by 7th_Chakra

Originally posted by Crash
Chavs are people who dress full in clothes such as nike, adidos ect (Sports stuff) trackky bottems ect (like some Black people do)


Like some Black people do? like some Chinese people do? like some Spanish do. What makes Black people spring to mind for you? I live in the U.K by the way. Blacks wear sports gear as much as any other peoples.


What i mean by this is in relation to gang members such as cribs, bloods ect (some white people mimic them), thinking that they are some sort of gang member and start mimicing things such as "dress codes" for what they see on T.V, music videos, Games and other media platforms involving "street wise" (hoods, ect) also most people round here wear hoods and so or things that would be seen as "gangsta"

You call them White "Wannabes" (Whites who think/wannabe Black) which sums it up as a pretty good word! (thats what i mean by "Some Black People do" which i meant by what you see in steet gang films with black people in - what some white people act like and dress like here, they basicly just mimic it dress wise without knowing cos their mates do it, due to it being in the dress code, you also get a lot of people saying "Respect" which then is when you and they bang knuckles


Originally posted by 7th_Chakra

Anyone else in the U.K use the term 'Townie' to describe a yob?

[edit on 19-6-2005 by 7th_Chakra]


Yes, i have also heard "Townie" however i don't really use it myself

Hope this helps you understand what i mean, hopfully you was not offended



[edit on 20-6-2005 by Crash]



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 06:42 AM
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I think its a good idea. The Police spend millions a year trying to control these idiots to the detriment that they have less resources to spend on solving real crime.
The Red Caps are good at dealing with drunken squaddies, i know from personal experience, and they wont be fazed by a couple of spotty drunken kids drinking White Cider on a street corner. Although i doubt they will be able to smack them up the side of the head if they get too cocky as happened to me in Cyprus when i got so drunk i thought i could take on three of em, all that got me was a the aforementioned smack up the side of the head, 14 days in the clink with loss of pay and 1 month restriction of privileges.
But it would be nice if they could.



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 06:45 AM
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-points above to his post that actually shows a better way to end it-



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
-points above to his post that actually shows a better way to end it-


I agree with your post ( i was replying to the original story not to any post in particular ), there needs to be a Zero tolerance approach to this kind of thing. The law as it stands it much in the yobs favour, seeing as most of them are under 18 and cannot be prosecuted as adults. Making them do community service in pink jump suits is good but also i think they should be named and shamed in local Newspapers etc, that would make them think twice as their hard man image seems to mean a lot to them. And you can look very hard in a pink jump suit with your face in the paper now can you.



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by shots
Really? I find that rather odd since it is played world wide and so many religions would be involved. Strange for sure if that is the case.

Read up on celtic and rangers, those 2 are the best examples of religion getting involved..



posted on Jun, 20 2005 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by Crash

Originally posted by 7th_Chakra

Originally posted by Crash
Chavs are people who dress full in clothes such as nike, adidos ect (Sports stuff) trackky bottems ect (like some Black people do)


Like some Black people do? like some Chinese people do? like some Spanish do. What makes Black people spring to mind for you? I live in the U.K by the way. Blacks wear sports gear as much as any other peoples.


What i mean by this is in relation to gang members such as cribs, bloods ect (some white people mimic them), thinking that they are some sort of gang member and start mimicing things such as "dress codes" for what they see on T.V, music videos, Games and other media platforms involving "street wise" (hoods, ect) also most people round here wear hoods and so or things that would be seen as "gangsta"

You call them White "Wannabes" (Whites who think/wannabe Black) which sums it up as a pretty good word! (thats what i mean by "Some Black People do" which i meant by what you see in steet gang films with black people in - what some white people act like and dress like here, they basicly just mimic it dress wise without knowing cos their mates do it, due to it being in the dress code, you also get a lot of people saying "Respect" which then is when you and they bang knuckles


Originally posted by 7th_Chakra

Anyone else in the U.K use the term 'Townie' to describe a yob?

[edit on 19-6-2005 by 7th_Chakra]


Yes, i have also heard "Townie" however i don't really use it myself

Hope this helps you understand what i mean, hopfully you was not offended



[edit on 20-6-2005 by Crash]


No mate no offense taken. I understand what you mean now
, although down here skater/BMX guys wear hoodies as much as blacks, yobs etc. To your respect comment, touching knuckles has been done for years. My dad used to do it back in the the day, you could call it the blackmans handshake.
Lots of these actions and sayings were innocent when they came over along with the influx of black caribbeans in the 40 & 50.

Anyway, we might be going off track here.


[edit on 20-6-2005 by 7th_Chakra]



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