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NEWS: Britain's Happy Hour ends with 'Martial Law'

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posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 11:14 AM
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Britain's Home Secretary Charles Clarke has asked the military police to support police forces around the country in an all-out summer campaign against anti-social drunken and violent behavior by yobs, according to The Sunday Telegraph. The measures were prompted by a recent wave of violent incidents involving teenage gangs including the so called "happy slapping" craze, where teenagers attack their victim while filming the assault on a cell phone.
 



www.telegraph.co.uk
Ministers have ordered the Army on to the streets to join an all-out summer campaign against anti-social drunken and violent behaviour by yobs.

Military police and ordinary uniformed soldiers will help keep youths under control in up to 20 towns and cities near military barracks.

The strategy comes as police forces in more than 230 towns and cities begin a clampdown on disorderly behavior by alcohol-fuelled youngsters, in response to a Home Office survey showing a disturbing rise in youth crime.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Martial Law in Britain seems rather extreme to me, but it does appear that hoodies are not the only problem there, truly a bad situation if they are having this many problems with their youth and young adults.

What I would like to know are these individuals born in Britain or is this perhaps a result of recent immigrations from other countries?

Also could one of our British ATS members please explain what “yob” stands for?


Related News Links:
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[edit on 6/19/2005 by shots]




posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 11:36 AM
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Yob: ill try to explain as best as i can.

basically, a yob is a youth with 'pack animal tendencies. that hangs around in gangs, spitting, swearing often associated with drunken/drugged behaviour. They basically believe they can do anything, that the law cannot (and quite often cant) touch them. ive seen them brawling with police security. Attack people in the street at random the so called 'happy slapping'

im a security officer in a large shopping mall i see this all the time. ive been attacked myself so far not seriously and ive used my training to keep them away.

I would not blame immigration entirely but it is a factor. its more a question of generations of liberal attitudes which stem from WW2. ever since WW2 ended the Uk has become more and more a moral less society with generations of liberal abandon. This combined with a gradual softening of our laws plus the recent introduction of the European Govewrments Human Rights act which pretty much says that people can do pretty much as they please, it has generated a generation that feels they can do anything because the law wont stand up to them and the disapline in the home is non existant.

The UK has become the city that Lot fled from before God destroyed it. An American citizen on vacation over here once said of out girls. 'I cant tell who are the hookers and who are the good girls they all dress and behave like hoes! And sadly i agree.

What i fear is coming true, that civil disorder will become so bad that troops will be needed to restore dignaty and people like me will eventually be armed like my US colleagues.

its a bad situation over here.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 11:52 AM
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Reminds me of "A Clockwork Orange", the Stanley Kubric film, now if the british youth start hanging out in "milk bars" than the old island is in real trouble.


More a problem of social abandon than alcohol I think. Broken homes and poor future prospects more than alcohol as a factor. We are having the same problem in the mid-western US and part of it is that these kids have no supervision and no moral grounding at home. Giving them an arrest record instead of a safe place to hang out is kind of silly, besides if they are under the legal age then the parents should get in trouble as well, that would make some adults pay more attention to there kids.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 11:57 AM
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Thanks rustiswordz. So in essence what you are saying is YOB is a nickname given to discribe this kind of behaviour and actually is not an acronym as I thought.

Just curious as to why the police can not handle the situation, is there a shortage of Police?



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by shots
Just curious as to why the police can not handle the situation, is there a shortage of Police?


Both a shortage of police, and the fact that there a tens of thousands of them. The how 'Chav' generation of kids, the kids from lower social classes who hang about on streets. Many of them have no respect for anyone, espeically not people who are different to them. Dont get me wrong, the ones I know are nice people, but the ones you dont know, generally will just insult you or attempt to steal from you. They are officially the bane of our society.. and some schools are cram packed with them.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by shots
Thanks rustiswordz. So in essence what you are saying is YOB is a nickname given to discribe this kind of behaviour and actually is not an acronym as I thought.

Just curious as to why the police can not handle the situation, is there a shortage of Police?


No not really, our Police have been tied up with so much red tape over here.

For every arrest, there is 60. count em 60 pieces of paperwork that needs to be filled out. We are also bound by the Human rights act which gives defendants and criminals and their lewyers unpresidented rights 'all in the name of human rights' courts feel compelled to be lienient with criminals because we lack prison space and our glorious leaders wont fund more prisons.

The UK was once the countries with an education disapline and judicial/police system the world envied. we are now a world wide laughing stock and it will end with anarchy.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by looking4truth


More a problem of social abandon than alcohol I think. Broken homes and poor future prospects more than alcohol as a factor. We are having the same problem in the mid-western US and part of it is that these kids have no supervision and no moral grounding at home. Giving them an arrest record instead of a safe place to hang out is kind of silly, besides if they are under the legal age then the parents should get in trouble as well, that would make some adults pay more attention to there kids.


I live in the MW and while I do see some behavior like this, it is not as you explain it here. Can you give men a general area?

One would think if their problems are the same, we would be hearing more stories like kids being handcuffed or told they could not talk to their mothers in Iraq which is not the case. We hear a lot of that here in the US but none from Britian and I find that odd.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 12:11 PM
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Its because they cant, under human rights laws a police officer can be arrested for assault just for arresting and man handling someone as the yob who caused the trouble in the first place.

Sounds stupid.

welcome to the European Union.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by Ishes
The how 'Chav' generation of kids, the kids from lower social classes who hang about on streets.


Again I have to show my American ignorance. Can you expand on the 'how Chav' generation? I have seen the phrase once or twice here on ATS but do not know exactly what it is.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 12:29 PM
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Chavs are people who dress full in clothes such as nike, adidos ect (Sports stuff) trackky bottems ect (like some Black people do) and hoods (however "hoodies" are not nesseserly chavs) Chav's also wear chains sometimes (so if your wearing a chain someone might call you a chav, even if you are not dresses as a chav)

However blacks wearing the same gear arn't considered Chavs, usually call them "G's" (Gangsta abriviation, even when they are not, its just equal to chav in black version, unless they are actually a gangster) unless they are hanging with a mianly white group, its only the whites that are considered chavs (well around here anyway)

(Chav is the gear/clothes that a person wears and also possibly the car they drive + if they wear any jewely and considered from the "lower social class" as the government or so puts it)

People here usually hang around in gangs, not nesserely just chavs (and if one person is hurt by another person, the rest will most likley go after that person, and in turn any of their mates/gang will retaliate)

Its the same as any culture, people hang around with friends, go to pub ect.

Its not as bad as it sounds

Also people believe that the police don't have much power at all to do anything, and theirfor decide that the "best" justice to do is to do it yourself
(The justice system is a joke, and the "Criminal" will be the one who most likely gets the less humiliation (such ass batter someone, they probly get 2 months community service). so people find it more reliable and to some extent more satisfactory if justice is "done" in the eye of the beholder (personally i would understand where a "revenge" attack would come from, and probly consider it a whole lot more efficent and satisfactory than anything an oppressed police force "would be allowed" to do)

However if someone says "safe" towards a character it usually means that "no more problems" for that paticular incident, such as go back to neutral, if both sides/people say "safe"(it means that if you had a problem with someone and you both said "safe" then you should NOT be expecting to get smashed up next time they/you are seen by them or you)

Also i don't like the use of "lower social class" it really angers people, Government goes on about equal opertunities and equality, then starts refering people towards their "classes"

Btw i would not consider myself a chav, however i do like to mix and match clothes wise (however its different styles, i like chains, and jeans ect, but never wear hoodies)

[edit on 19-6-2005 by Crash]



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by shots
One would think if their problems are the same, we would be hearing more stories like kids being handcuffed or told they could not talk to their mothers in Iraq which is not the case. We hear a lot of that here in the US but none from Britian and I find that odd.


I doubt that the stories are exactly the same but there are alot of similar problems. The UK is further down the liberal path than the US and therefore the limitations on use of force by police are alot tougher, for better or worse, so you don't get the "shocking" police abuse scandals that you do here. However, we are having some of the same social problems and both countries are finding dealing with them hard in the modern left-right culture debates. It's a shame too because the next generations are the ones to suffer. It's time to drop the political ideaologies and fix the problems, although that does sound niave and unlikely now that I've typed that.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by Crash

(Chav is the gear/clothes that a person wears and also possibly the car they drive + if they wear any jewely and considered from the "lower social class" as the government or so puts it)

Btw i would not consider myself a chav, however i do like to mix and match clothes wise (however its different styles, i like chains, and jeans ect, but never wear hoodies)

[edit on 19-6-2005 by Crash]


By the explaination sounds kind of like theyuppies/hippy's here in the late 60's early 70's. Kind of makes sense when you put it that way although here in the US they never got that far out of hand.

As I now understand this after reading some of the responses posted while I was doing my Honey Do list; this may or may not be a result of the EU right? If that is the case and if I were Britian I would tell them to thake their EU and shove it.

Or have I missed something here?



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by shots
As I now understand this after reading some of the responses posted while I was doing my Honey Do list; this may or may not be a result of the EU right? If that is the case and if I were Britian I would tell them to thake their EU and shove it.


Don't worry you would fit right in with the majority of "shove it" regarding the EU

Funny enough we follow the Rules more than the rest of Europe who created it

Its not all the EU's fault, however the "EU right" does add to the problems by "treating the victim like the criminal and vice versa" (that phrase has been thrown around here in the U.K many times) especially in certain newspapers

[edit on 19-6-2005 by Crash]



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by Crash
Chavs are people who dress full in clothes such as nike, adidos ect (Sports stuff) trackky bottems ect (like some Black people do)


Like some Black people do? like some Chinese people do? like some Spanish do. What makes Black people spring to mind for you? I live in the U.K by the way. Blacks wear sports gear as much as any other peoples.



However if someone says "safe" towards a character it usually means that "no more problems" for that paticular incident, such as go back to neutral, if both sides/people say "safe"(it means that if you had a problem with someone and you both said "safe" then you should NOT be expecting to get smashed up next time they/you are seen by them or you)
[edit on 19-6-2005 by Crash]


Safe has multiple meanings and it depends on the situation it is used. Most black terminology has multiple meaning depending on the situation. Safe can be:-
Greeting
Farewell
He/she is a good guy
No problem
say safe (take care)

Like most black terminology its taken up by 'wannabe' whites (want to be black) who then turn it into something different, often negetive. I have never heard Safe in the expression you described.

Just thought I would clear that up.

Anyone else in the U.K use the term 'Townie' to describe a yob?

In regards to the story. Let the crime get bad and the peoples will accept any solution you give, even soliders on the streets.

[edit on 19-6-2005 by 7th_Chakra]



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 02:46 PM
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The problem we have in the UK shots, is massive binge drinking. Every weekend millions hit the town centres and drink to excess. Fights, arguments and abuse are common. Bear in mind, this is both males and females who take part in this behaviour.

One of the problems is "happy hours" where drinks are stupidly cheap, people drink as much as they can in that short time.

Frankly there are not enough police, whether military is a good idea, I don't know. But I suspect not, there is little respect for police here and little respect for the military as a whole. I live near a major base for soldiers here. Often the young "squaddies" go out on the town, acting tough. The locals seem to take great pleasure putting them in their place.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 03:00 PM
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In the states we use 'townie' to talk about natives where we go to school. Like college kids in Maine or Massachussetts who live up on a hill refer to the people at the bottom as 'townies'. The fishermen and local market owners, the high school kids from town, that sort of thing.

As far as martial law...

Can of worms. I can't really make any predictions, but I certainly don't see much good coming out of it.

I think it's a sad state of affairs when a nation has to mobilize its armed forces against its own citizens.

One more thing, the chains...

In the states, at least in the places I've lived, wearing a chain is a challenge. It says, 'take this from me if you can', essentially. If you walk around with a few hundred dollars hanging off your neck, it's a testament to your ability to defend yourself, or your stupidity.

College kids and high schoolers from the suburbs used to come to my neighborhood on the north side of Chicago to buy drugs. They would walk around like they owned the place, unaware of just how much danger they were in. (The drug gangs had snipers, spotters, full freakin' battalions of soldiers lurking in underground garages) Unaffiliated suburbanites didn't last long.

I don't know how bad the situation is in England, but I'd guess the majority of their problems are still non-fatal stabbings and aggravated assault, robbery with a weapon, etc. The crime rate is disturbingly high, but it doesn't seem as brutal or as organized as the American urban crime I'm familiar with. Maybe that's a misperception, after all, I'm perceiving across the ocean here folks.


And no matter how bad it is, someone, somewhere, has it worse. Look at places like Brazil, or South Africa for Christ's sake! I mean, they've got it BAD! And when you compare..does the situation really warrant martial law? I don't think so, personally. However, I have a much higher baseline tolerance for chaos, it bothers everyone I've met a lot more. I think the general perception is that civilization is falling apart. Self fulfilling prophecy to say the least.


I think the inevitable progression is toward mass gang warfare in the streets, which will sort of take the bullseye off the innocent pedestrians (this sort of happened in America, when the gangs became more about profit and competition for resources/territory) maybe the Staffordshire Yobs Vs. the NorthUmberland Chavs, the London Hooligans Vs. the Manchester Gits, that sort of thing.
I get the sense people don't much mind when they kill each other, it's just when they molest uninvolved citizens...

In American cities that I've lived in, there's a sort of understanding between citizens and gangs. The gangs know they can usually get away with killing other gang members, or even killing their own. The cops don't care very much, the citizens don't notice half the time, and it's generally business as usual afterwards. When the gangs start killing citizens, or doing mass robberies, big stick ups, that sort of thing, community leaders get pressure, they pass it on to the politicians, and the politicians exert pressure on law enforcement to make a few examples.

Maybe it will work out the same way across the water, and the gangs will turn on each other, mostly out of necessity. One can only hope right?



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 03:17 PM
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you know, ....

if these kids were well fed and educated, you wouldn't have this problem but, of course, they're from, 'lower social classes', so they deserve they're 'Lot' in life.

the powers that be are increasing the class gap, instead of closing it. this earth already produces enough food that NOBODY has to go hungry, ever. the problem is overcentralisation of everything. this is being done by governments in conjuction with corporations. it is a plan. almost every single country is starting to see this kind of backlash against the new oligarchy. china, nine commentaries. america, buck fush. even israel just had they're orange thingy. for the first time, israeli police had to concentrate on the rising dissent of israeli mobs, instead of palestinian ones.

it's gonna get worse before it gets better.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 03:23 PM
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I can see a future in which cities are 'classed off' Section D, C, B, and A. Peoples will be put into class and not be allowed to travel into higher classes, but are allowed into lower ones. A is top class of course.

Together we will make a wonderful NWO!



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by Kriz_4
The problem we have in the UK shots, is massive binge drinking. Every weekend millions hit the town centres and drink to excess. Fights, arguments and abuse are common. Bear in mind, this is both males and females who take part in this behaviour.


Must either be a differance in cultures or my old age is getting to me. Here we have drinking and I am sure some of it is binge drinking, but for the most part, many drinkers here have cut down on their drinking because of the newer laws.

At one point in time I can recall parts of town that had an intersection with fours taverns/bars on each of the corners. That is no longer the case now you find bars concentrated in the downtown area but in town bars have reduced in great numbers for the past ten years again all because of the stricter driving laws. As an example where there once were 20 bars you are lucky to find five that are still in business.



One of the problems is "happy hours" where drinks are stupidly cheap, people drink as much as they can in that short time.


I can relate to that I love happy hours because of the price of drinks these days. Nothing better then getting two for one if you ask me.


But I do see what you are saying, I agree they could cause a problem especially with a younger crowd of people. When it comes to my generation it seems two is the limit when going out these days, again because of the stricter laws. In my case I am lucky,my wife does not drink except for rare occasions so I have my own driver whodoes not drink. That means if I want to tie one on can,so can my friends since our wives do not drink in excess. Makes for a win win situation here.



Frankly there are not enough police, whether military is a good idea, I don't know. But I suspect not, there is little respect for police here and little respect for the military as a whole. I live near a major base for soldiers here. Often the young "squaddies" go out on the town, acting tough. The locals seem to take great pleasure putting them in their place.


That was one of the main reasons for the test area last year as I understood it happened around military bases so they used that as a trial area and it worked.

I can only assume that in the UK/Britian the military police do not normally
patrol in towns near military bases right? I am not sure if they still do in the major cities, but years ago on Saturdays the Navy shore Patrol was always out in Chicago and Milwaukee on weekends. I never get into the downtown areas anymore at night so do not know if the still do or not. The same would apply near Army or Air Bases only then they are of course called MP's or AP's.

Truly a sad situation the way most of you have explained it. Hope someone somewhere can do something about it for you


[edit on 6/19/2005 by shots]



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by billybob
you know, ....

if these kids were well fed and educated, you wouldn't have this problem but, of course, they're from, 'lower social classes', so they deserve they're 'Lot' in life.
...............


There are rich kids who also do these things... It has nothing to do with people being poor. It is a problem with most kids nowadays. Freedom has
taken a new meaning, and most of our youth think freedom is anarchy.

Rustiswordz is right on what he says, humanitarian groups are pretty much the ones who have brought us these problems. When criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens all hell breaks lose. It was not the governments of the world who gave these rigths to criminals, and who changed the meaning of freedom, it was all the humanitarian groups going on a powertrip and making criminals not responsible for their own actions, but blaming society instead for the actions of criminals.

When you take the blame away from a person for whatever actions he/she does, that person believes he/she can do anything he/she wants, and the youth are the ones that are most susceptible to think they can do whatever they want with no regards for the consequences of their actions.


[edit on 19-6-2005 by Muaddib]



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