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Is the European Union Dead

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posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 03:55 PM
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Hey all, this is my first thread I've been a member for a few months now first of all I'd like to say this is the coolest site on the internet so many young people from all over the world debating on interesting issues, anyways I digress. The subject of this thread is the European Union dead,
personally I hope not. This may not be a view shared by alot of americans
on this site but I think a strong europe would be good for america and the world at large. But the recent events in europe the rejection of the european constitution by two founding members and yesterday the failure of the EU budgetary summit. I have two questions in regards to the future
of the European Union.

1. What is the future of europe i.e closer poltical union (United States of Europe) or looser trading partner ship.
2. Could the recent division actually lead to a split in europe, some nations
(France, Germany) seem to favor closer union while Britain and the Scandanavian countries favor a liberal trade partner ship.




posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 04:00 PM
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EU isn't dead. It's on the back-burner. There are still several other European countries, led by Germany, that approved and ratified the treaty for the EU constitution. Only France and the Netherlands opted out for awhile.

The EU advocates will try again, maybe next year.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 04:07 PM
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the eu advocates will try again, maybe next year

But will that change the result. I believe that the rejection of the constitution is a barometer of what people think of what the eu has
become. I corrupt unresponsive bureaucratic institution. Don't you think
the whole system should be rethought.

[edit on 18-6-2005 by danwild6]



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 06:19 PM
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I would also like to know if anyone has views on what Britain should do
mainly because in two weeks the UK takes over leadership of the EU
Presidency I know that there are alot of Brits on this site so I would like
to hear their point of view on what needs to be done to get the EU back
on track.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 06:48 PM
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I hate the EU, its just a bureaucratic nightmare full of corruption and Governments that make laws then decide to ignore them. Id be more than happy if the whole system fell apart, thats my view.It needs to go back to a trading zone and forget about making us into a new United States , it wont work.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 06:51 PM
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For as long as there is America there will not be a strong European Union.

The whole point of the E.U. is to compete with america... Did you really think that America was going to allow this to happen? They were just going to sit by as the Euro kicked the dollars ass? No Way!

Through Lots and lots of money thrown their agenda the American's will sway public opinion in your countries. To infact weeken, your country. American Power doesn't come from its people, it comes from its money and its propoganda ... and if that fails, there is always the military.

Germany remains strong because Germans have a strong Nationalistic View in opposition of American views.

A possible German-Franco Union ??? Why not? I can see the two nations being really good friends. Together they could take Europe, Economicly...So why bring in the other countries? To widen their power base and influence of course. Their 2 currencies would challenge the yen, but not the almighty dollar.

England, is the father of America...and as a good father will always remain a close friend to America. A strong EU would destroy the American Economy if it ever became the RESERVE CURRENCY.

Sorry Europeans, the E.U is dead. Now get ready to join us in WWIII against ASIA & RUSSIA Please!



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 07:02 PM
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I don't share the view that a united europe could ever truly threaten the US. It is true that the rise of the euro has kicked the dollar around but only
partially because as a major currency many nations would diversify their
hard assets. The main reason for the fall of the dollar is our own economic
policies. Policies that do nothing to rectify our budget and trade deficits.
As far as europe's military strength they really don't I believe have enough
of member countries subscribing to the idea to challenge the United States
militarily.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 07:10 PM
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It is only parts of the EU constitution that members have disagreed on. Once a constitution that all parties agree on has been decided it will be signed. However this is unlikely to happen.

So the EU will likely continue in its present state. The EU is working fairly well at the moment.

Tweaks need to be made to the EU, but a constitution is not a realistic, attainable or necessary goal.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 07:20 PM
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I agree, the voting system will have to be tweaked and someone is going
to have to budge on the budget (no pun intended) who it will be is anybodies guess. Hopefully Chirac will see the necessity of compromising
with Blair on the rebate and cap.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 07:28 PM
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Thats my point Chirac thinks hes some sort of God and wont compromise on anything that he thinks will not benefit France. EU waste of money , waste of every bodies time as no one will ever agree on anything. Lets go back to trading with Commonwealth Nations sod the Eu.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
For as long as there is America there will not be a strong European Union.

The whole point of the E.U. is to compete with america... Did you really think that America was going to allow this to happen? They were just going to sit by as the Euro kicked the dollars ass? No Way!


Do you have to be so egocentric? Not everything is about the US and the EU certainly falls into that category. Your government and the innate paranoia it breeds may lead you to believe that everything in the world revolves around opposing the US but the rest of us live in the global community.

The EU will adapt to the wishes of it's electorate. The votes in France and Holland will serve as a wake-up call and the discussions they breed will create an EU the member states populations will be comfortable with.

Personally, I can't stand the EU in it's current form and the rows going on at the moment just serve to highlight why it's such a bad idea. In any other arena what the pathetic french are doing would be called extortion. The EU is delicately poised right now, they either take the route of the french socialist model or the British free-trade model. The choice they make will determine the shape of the union for the foreseeable future.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 07:52 PM
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The EU is delicately poised right now, they will either take the french socialist model or the british free-trade model

But that poses another problem will all of the EU go along with one model
that is will the french and german ever accept the British model, not likely
IMHO or conversly will the Brits ever accept the French model with it's high
unemployment and massively wasteful civil service.

[edit on 18-6-2005 by danwild6]



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 08:01 PM
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I guess not everyone gets the memo...
European Union (EU) = New World Order

now, nobody wants NWO now do they?



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 08:02 PM
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The British will never accept the French and German way so the EU is a failed way of trying to make a United States of Europe.Anyway i hate them both , id sooner be part of America, at least we would get 24 , best tv show ever.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 08:12 PM
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So what happens next Bulldog does Britain lead a break away with the Scandanavian and possibly a large part of the new member nations in tow. Tony Blair takes over leadership of the EU early next month do you think he's going to try to find some way to get the constitution back on track or the will the EU budget be his top priority.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 08:27 PM
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No either the main two France and Germany accept that a reform of the way the money is allocated in the Eu is fair , then Britain will negotiate. The only way do get a fair deal is get rid of Chirac , hes whats called a delusion ed person.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 08:36 PM
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I agree that Chirac is the primary problem to a lesser extent Schroeder but he maybe out of office before the end of the year anyway and if Schroeder goes Chirac will have one less ally. I think the main reason that Chirac is being so difficult is it's a way to shift the spotlight from his defeat(probably the worst of his entire career)in the referendum and to stop losing ground further(Chirac is becoming increasingly unpopular in France due to the terrible shape of the French economy)in the opinion polls. He's had one government fall already if the new one falls he would probably have to resign.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 04:30 AM
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I agree that Chirac is the primary problem to a lesser extent Schroeder but he maybe out of office before the end of the year anyway and if Schroeder goes Chirac will have one less ally.


Most pundits seem to be agreed that Schroeder will lose the next election and Angela Merkel will take power. That would be good for Britain because she is pro-reform and has said she will help defend the rebate. Blair has actually already held talks with her. Hopefully we'll see an end to the Franco-German axis soon if she gets into power.



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by danwild6
I have two questions in regards to the future
of the European Union.

1. What is the future of europe i.e closer poltical union (United States of Europe) or looser trading partner ship.
2. Could the recent division actually lead to a split in europe, some nations
(France, Germany) seem to favor closer union while Britain and the Scandanavian countries favor a liberal trade partner ship.


- Actually you put 3 questions; your first was

Is the European Union Dead


- For which the answer is no.

As for the future? Well IMO the first thing is to rationally assess where we are and what has just happened.

For the anti-EU crowd they will eventually have to start to see and accept that these so-called 'constitution' votes prove beyond all doubt that the type of EU they have been 'warning' everyone about for the last couple of decades is not and never was going to happen.
Ever.

The dictating EU super-state is not on the cards and never actually was.
It could never have been because the people of Europe don't want one and never have wanted one.
These votes prove that.........and for as long as we remain free democratic countries that will always be so.
The idea that the EU could side-step this by secretly removing our democracy is just part of the anti-EU delusions.

On the 'other side of the street' the pro-EU people will have to see and accept that there has undoubtledly been a detachment between the people, their national govs and the EU.
Whereas the EU was once seen as 'the future' it is now seen as somewhat old and outdated.
Issues such as the CAP where just over 40% of the EU budget goes on farming must be faced up to and changed to rebalance our efforts to demonstrate a renewed relevance to more of the people within the EU.

I have no doubt that this will happen. The EU has it's faults and flaws (like all human endevours) but it's fundamental principles are so sound that IMO it is bound to survive.
This is a shock along the way for some and a perfectly normal, but long overdue, moment of realignment for others.
Such is the dynamism of political and economic events.

As for European 'splits'?
Europe has always had a 'core' pushing particular agendas.
But then again that 'core' has varied depending upon the issue itself.
Now we are 25 the old idea of a 'Franco-German alliance' running the show is becoming less and less true (or possible).
In any event this is simply part of the ebb and flow of normal politics, right now the German chancellor is close to the French, he is likely to go soon and be replaced with one closer to the British idea.
Similarly Chirac is to go in the not too distant future.
Things and the people involved - thankfully- change. It is the one certainty.

We shall have a period of reflection, hopefully one with informed comment and based upon the facts of the situation........as opposed to inaccurate slogans like those that attempt to portay the EU as "corrupt" (especially when the annual auditors report levels of waste and corruption in the EU as lower than in many of the sovereign nations states - people wishing to use this distortion usually point to the auditors refusal to 'sign off' the accounts; this is simply to either ignore or fail to understand why they are doing this. It has nothing to do with "corruption" and everything to do with the failure to implement certain accounting proceedures.....which is down to the ogv, not the EU).

......and as Bulldog 52 points out' he (like many of the British EU haters) would rather traitor the UK to mere US statehood as opposed to being a decision making partner with full voting rights in cooperative free and democratic EU.

No thanks.


[edit on 19-6-2005 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 12:13 PM
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Personally I think your right sminkey I think Schroeder will be replaced and hopefully so will Chirac in the not to distant future I actually think these two have been holding the EU back from drastic and necessary reforms with those two clowns out of office I can see things only getting better for the EU.




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