*Applauds Skadi_the_Evil_Elf* I liked your post, especially "idiot frenchman" but my feelings on them are a different issue.

Hmm. Q.7 shows the front of the building before it colapsed. A 747 at 250-600 would demolish a building, surely?

I've been to the pentagon, and I was told that there was no way on earth that a plane could ever attack it, it's the most secure building ON the earth. This was in 1983, surely missile systems are far more advanced now?

I dunno. I've seen an f-16 hit a concrete wall and leave nothing larget than a few grains of sand. Perhaps it was totally smashed to tiny pieces. Odd that there's no bodies, though.

I don't remember any witnesses in the news saying they saw a plane in washington, can others verify this?

STEE,

I think the difference in skepticism between the WTC crashes and the Pentagon crash is in the video, first there are frames missing from the Pentagon video...why? Second, you clearly see the planes crash into the WTC...you see nothing of the sort in the Pentagon video.

I don't believe everythign people say they see. People see a lot of things they're told to. Don't dismiss it because your friend's wife said she heard the rumble of a plane (pretty ambiguous statement). I'm not dismissing anythign until I see it.

Skadi,

Fine this site is crap and we all are crazy and stupid........THEN LEAVE!!!!!!!

Don't waste your damn time blabbering your brilliant deductions of how wrong we all are, cause nobody is listening.

At this point all those who can't see it, are either part of it, or too stupid to even matter. Either way, you're worthless.

You show me how a damn 757 can some how not be anywhere at all, even while they're still putting out the flames and I'll listen to ya, or even show me what you have as proof.....You seem to be such a expert to disprove the security cam, photos, the fact that the eye witnesses can't be verified, and all that......Ok, well what the hell do you have to back it up genius???? Show your proof!!!!

FU*KING RETARD!!!!!!!! Actually, I may even choose to agree with ya about this site being lame....Cause there si a growing number of people like you....

What?,it's like you think that the human body is more durable than an aircraft,I have seen a crashed plane left for a loss in oklahoma,it had body marks on the instrument panel,but the plane still remained intact for the most part,if the plane disintegrated,you can be sure that the bodies fared far worse,and then add fire,they were reduced to something like margarine.
I expect that itty bitty pieces were found,but nothing the untrained eye would see as human body parts,especially from the pics we have available.

Mojo, you brain farting twinkie, i ddnt say ATS was stupid, i was referring to the idiot site that claims the pentagon was hit with a missile and no planes were used was beyond retardation. Do you know how to read, you vegetable? Even a 5 year old could have come to that conclusion.

You are proof that American's remedial education has been sadly neglected, sigh.

if I thought ATS was stupid, I wouldnt be on this site.

Chill out, guys. Arguing doesn't help.

uNBaLaNCeD, you may be right, I'm not an expert. However, every documentary I have seen about commercial airplane crashes has produced bodies.

Hitting a wall head-on may be the difference in this incident, thanks for reminding me of that.

I think I remember hearing that the frames of the video are missing because the camera was a networked web-cam type device which was monitoring the area around the inner security gates. This is the reason it's not fmv (full-motion video).

Skadi

I am truely a @$$ for being so mean about the way I presented my post, but I still can't figure out exactally which way your view point is headed.

You may just be speaking of the peticular site and it's evidence it's using. But you are saying the bottom line is that a plane hit the pentagon. But there is nothing that is showing me any sign of a damn plane. It isn't going to just vaporize!! Even if the whole front of it is under the rubble, there should still be 2 wings and an entire back end. Even in pieces scattered around or something. A 757 is a big damn plane. It's not like a little twin engine or something!!! Was it removed somehow??? Even though it's on fire just like the building and they are still putting it out??? You usually put the fires out before you haul the whole thing away don't you?? That much plane cannot hit hard enough, especially from the fact that it was flying so low to explode into dust!!

I don't know where the plane is either. All I know is the story given by our gov. is that a 757 crashed there. Yet no black box, scant media coverage, and no visible evidence except for a few little pieces inside the rubble. So that means the story doesn't jive.

I don't believe the conspiracy 100% and the Gov. is obviously full of POO! Case closed. Take it down!!

Maybe you can't find every slug or shell casing but this many smoking guns reaks of Government coverup and total betrail! I'm sorry for being a pr!ck about it, but what does it take for people to get mad about this stuff.

Pearl Harbor, Gulf War, Military chemical tests on the public, Dubya's Crime Spree, Our so called justified war to get O'sama suddenly changed to Hussien, Bagdad deal (if true, haven't had time to study this one yet), and it just keeps coming. What does it take to get people upset about this. 9.5 million jobs shot to hell, economy in the crapper, possible police state.....This is even the stuff that can verified and if even turned out only partially true, is sick.....and I do mean sick!!! Do we need this kind of government....Hell I'll farm the land and haul water from the rivers and live in a community at this point, that's fine. At what point is the system easily currupt, even if some details are missing, to say enough is enough!!! Is it time to get mad when the boot of some drone soldier is using your skull for a foot rest?

Thanx seekerof, even though our american media I feel better about believing when it can also be verified by other 3rd parties as well.....I do appriciate the extra info....I'm going through it now....Have you got some pictures or anything obviously showing some kind of plane or a good chuck of plane wreckage?? News reports are nice, but they're not all that reliable anymore from either side. I'm starting to think nobody knows the facts about anything anymore. Perhaps the web is starting to trap the spiders now as well as the flies.

[Edited on 12-8-2003 by mOjOm]

Can you explain how a Boeing 757-200, weighing nearly 100 tons and travelling at a minimum speed of 250 miles an hour* only damaged the outside of the Pentagon?

Duh.
It was built in the hight of world war two as a hardened military command center.


It went through two major ring structures and killed alot of people.

Mojo.......

I believe totally that the gov played a big role in 9/11. Its just i can hardly believe anyone would believe that anything but a plane hit that building.

If it were a handful of witnesses, id say, maybe, something is up. But thousands saw the plane. Thousands of witnesses cant be wrong. Just like hundreds of people in Pennsylvania saw a second high speed jet chasing flight 93, yet the govornment claims it crashed on its own. Seismic stations in West Virginia picked up on the boom, a sonic boom. Mnay people still maintain thier story of a lightning fast white mystery jet, others saw another plane too, and other evodence points toward the military shooting it down.

The media isnt all inaccurate. I find comparing the stories of the mass media with actual data and facts, and then the story of the conspriacy theorists, between, is what lies the truth. like taking three filters, red, yellow, and blue, if you combine them all, you get white light. Thats how truth must eb decided.

A plane hit the pentagon, I dont doubt that. Im more concerned as to who really was flying that plane, why the pentagon, fully capable of defending itself, did not, why jets werent scrambled when this planbe was meandering its way back to dc after two planes already confirmed terrorists had hit, why the prez really didnt do anythign until after it was over, ect.

This guys site is misleading, it points your focus away from what should be looked at: all the extra surrounding info on the subject! Our military was capable of intercepting the Pentagon. The pentagon was more than capable of intercepting it. Yet nothign was done?

Jets could have intercepted the second plane that Hit the WTC. They may not have been able to stop the first. But they didnt. Why? Why werent they scrambled? It could have been done, intercepting and scrambling jets is a common practice that happened 67 times in 2001 before september 11. They cant tell us they were caught unaware, not used to this proceedure. It is commonly done. yet wasnt for this day.

They were told to stand down, or simply not dispatched at all.

But to me, the idea of missiles hitting the pentagion is as silly as suggesting that aliens with deathrays did it. Too many people, too many untrackable people, first eyewitness accounts, saw the plane hit.

mOjOm,
You asked if I have seen any other parts of the aircraft, etc......
And to be honest, no. Other than what has been provided in this thread and the links given.
I have searched for more but according to most reports, other than multitudes of scattered pieces, the engine being found and very few "inside of the Pentagon" pictures, I have found none.
Also, to be honest, I have stopped speculating on all this. My view has turned to the reason behind all this.

Wish I could be of more help, but again, with multitudes of theories floating around, one has many to choose from.
Peace.

regards
seekerof

Thank, you for those links, Seekerof. My opinion will be less uninformed next time.

I've said this before in other threads.
I guess I'll say it again.

First of all, the section of the Pentagon that was hit had recently undergone a complete remodel. It was gutted, reinforced, and rebuilt.
How do I know this?
I worked at the Pentagon during this phase of renovation. As long as I borrowed a hardhat from one of the construction guys and wasn't in heels, I was free to wander about safer parts of the gutted section.
There wasn't much Morse Deisel could to to the exterior of the building because it was built like an above-ground bunker. They patched a few things here and there, sure, but the interior was where the work was done. The exterior didn't need anything major done.
It was completed shortly before 9/11 and they were readying the next phase.

And no bodies?
NO BODIES?
One of my good friends is a firefighter in the VA suburbs of DC. He was called for recovery duty at the Pentagon within hours of the tragedy.
Believe me, he may not have seen bodies, but he saw more body parts than he ever wanted to.
Bits of luggage, too. Recognizable articles of clothing, things like that.

I could smell burning jet feul ten miles away.

Next?
-B.

I was interested in this topic (third time around) to find out why there had been 32 member responses, and why mOjOm had picked up a 'warning'.

I get a picture of the second issue, but not the first.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the issue of 'missing plane - no crash into Pentagon' is a red herring for people investigating the serious corruption and fraud involved in covering up 9/11.

But people still get heated over it.

The member who said 'the people in the missing plane could be living under new identities, or could have been killed off' needs to be taken to one side by some Moderators and/or counsellors, for a brief review session. If s/he is not kidding, then there are some reasonable reality checking brain functions that the majority of members have, that this member lacks.

mOjOm, Skadi is one of the more credible individuals at ATS in examining, summarising and subjectively reporting on issues like this.

Your 'flaming' was probably naturally triggered off by having what you said dismissed outright, but the reality of what he said was as real this time around as the times this has been discussed at ATS before.

It is just too hard to track every single thread on 9/11 in order to present new or challenging information at ATS.

But this topic, to me, is yet another indication that with growing experience, members should check on the 'baseline' of information and arguments already here before venturing onto emotionally turbulent ground.

Right after the attacks there were pictures of the one of the engines sitting on the lawn.

It was that damn ATS mood bar!!! It just set me off!!

Naw, just kidding...I was actually already a bit on edge from a few other posts during that same time and was knee deep in other wonderful Bushish news sewage. It all starts to rush in like that feeling right before a drunken yack!

I do feel bad for snapping like that, as you know it's not really my normal style. I think I'll just sip my political news for a while cause the whole thing is getting so bad and yet I keep seeing all these "BUSHeep" everywhere still avoiding even the slightest bit of awakening. Post like "Well the War is illegal and all but I think we should be napalming the hell out of em!" or similar......I'm just thinking, huh?!?!?!

Plus I'm kinda ticked about Freemason getting banned and Illuminatic leaving. FM could be a bit tunnel visioned at times but I kinda enjoyed the debates. And Illum was just a cool guy.

Illuminatic left? Freemason banned, yet again? Damn. Hard to keep up.

Valhall

No, it wasn't an engine, and the photo hasn't been shown to be part of the plane at all.

Its probably a "no biggie" mOjOm.
I have been there too, but I my problem was I denied these things. Didn't want to see past the tragedy to see what was the real reasons....
I have had my go-rounds with a few in here and MA and I have had our go-rounds, quite a bit actually.....but again, hindsight is 20/20.

Conflicts and arguments are a nature of the beast....the internet and of our own understandings.
Don't sweat it.

regards
seekerof

planes DISENTIGRATE ON IMPACT!. only pices are gonna be found DUH! look at the value jet crash, or the TWA 800 carsh. or columbia for that matter. when thing crash they desintigrate.