Do we believe the truth?

I'm a solid believer that UFOs are of Extra-terrestrial origin, but it's always good to look at the other side of things for a little while. To open your mind further. Far too often do I find myself skipping the bits and pieces on the internet saying "Roswell explained" in favour of those that say "Roswell alien mystery grows deeper".

I found this interesting article.

One of the nation's (US) leading sponsors of UFO research and investigations, the Fund for UFO Research, has had a long-standing secret relationship with the CIA and the U.S. Intelligence community. Dr. Bruce Maccabee, an optics and laser specialist with the Naval Surface Weapons Laboratory near Washington, DC, one of the Fund's founders and members of the group's Executive Committee, has been
secretly meeting with CIA officials since 1979, briefing them about various UFO matters and investigators

Source

It's also interesting to note that even UFOlogists admit that only about 10% of sightings are genuine unidentifiable craft rather than astronomical phenomena or known aircraft ect...

UFO is a very general term, over-used and incorrectly used by most people. Including UFOlogists. This is one thing that debunkers dive straight in on. UFO in it's literal term means unidentified flying object. Which could be practically anything, not necessarily a craft piloted by an ET lifeform, which is what it is often used to mean. I do it, most people do. When talking about what they believe to be alien craft they say UFO, because it's common, everyone knows what you mean and it's easier than the alternatives, like ETV (Extra-Terrestrial Vehicle).

It is also true that many sleep disorders like Lucid dreaming, Sleep paralysis...ect could account for a lot of abduction reports. Attention seekers could account for another lot of reports, which leaves very few abduction reports that are believable or respectable.

So what is left for the believers to believe? What evidence is there, that I as a believer still hang on to and hails as evidence?

The building of the pyramids maybe? It's a pretty solid argument, but has become ridiculed due to the likes of Graham Hancock and especially Robert Bauval's need to cash in on it. It is also in a stalemate, neither the new age or the classic Egyptologists will give up. The classic Egyptologists are greater in number and influence and in publicity. So, we lose over there.

The Mars monuments have all been looked at, but again, arguments have been heavily damaged by cranky researchers involvement and by photos that seemingly rip away the mars face. Which leaves a few pyramids, which are much less impressive and without the Mars face would have been totally ignored.

What are we left with? Very little.

It is now I that must fall back on poorly constructed arguments like: The sheer number of photos, sightings, reports and abduction accounts. The Majestic 12 docs and worst of all the Drake equation, which only suggests that life exists somewhere else in the universe, not that it has actually visited here.

Do we believe in the truth (believers)? really? Are we just blind believers. I know that I still believe, even after all this.

Great thread!

its well written,

It's also interesting to note that even UFOlogists admit that only about 10% of sightings are genuine unidentifiable craft rather than astronomical phenomena or known aircraft ect...

This is very true, alot of UFOlogists say this

So what is left for the believers to believe? What evidence is there, that I as a believer still hang on to and hails as evidence?

I won't say 'Sadly, wery little', since it's more a question of credibility than solid, physical proof. Sightings are just that, sighting. Something some or someone saw. I'll just go ahead and label myself under that category. I saw something that I know to be not of this earth. Now, what options are left? 1: It was a mirage. 2: It was true. Hey, what happened, I already lost 50% credibility? Oh, ok. Let's look at my social status. I have no job and have none for the past 5 years, -15%. I'm basically societys waste. I'm on social welfare and that's looked down on in wichever part of the world you chose. What else then.. well, let's look at the circumstances. Noone else saw what I saw even though there was people around, -10% (given it was dark and a faint sighting since it was half invisible I might've exaggerated the number a little). That leaves me with roughly 38% credibilty. Now, if I were a renouned doctor, scientist or just someone famous that percentage would shoot right up. But in the end it doesn't, and we're all labeled into the 'Single person sighting, could be mirage' folder.

So on anonimous places like this forum, the only thing you can do is make an educated guess to what's considered real and not, and even then you're left with the mirage alternative. It's all about credibilty and probability, the rest is up to you.

Well, there are quite a lot of more cases that you didn't mention, I must say that or you don't know them or you forgot to mention them.
FOr an example, the Varginha incident, the current situation in Brasil, Roswell(take a look at Gazrok's research ), the Hill abduction case, between many others that didn't came to my mind.

Getting to your point, taking all the evidence apart, I would say that I believe, because I saw an UFO and am pretty sure it wasn't terrestrial, and of course the usual excuse: the Universe is just too big!

There's something going on, and I have the feeling thatwe're pretty close to find out what it is...

I think people keep missing the possiblity that UFO's or "aliens" could be from other dimentions and not just "outer space".

There are more than enough solid cases to convince me, and quite a few other people. This is one of those things where there are no easy answers and it takes a form of intellectual courage to make a stand.

Side comment: Lucid Dreaming is not a sleep disorder and could in no way be the source of abduction feelings. It takes a lot of work to be able to become Lucid (which means BTW that you 'wake up' inside the Dream, know it is a Dream and are most of your usual real world self) and the work helps you to understand yourself better. Self-delusion is one area that a person has less trouble with once they have done this work.

The role of skeptic, or non-believer (which should really be 2 classes, at least a skeptic is open to new possibilities) is the easy route. No one will laugh when you say there are no Aliens visiting earth. And on the day when real proof is finally here, all they have to say was 'I guess I was wrong' and who will care?

Personally I do not mind negative comments, I do not care if I am the butt of some persons jokes. The stand I have taken is logical and puts at least a little faith in humans, we do not all lie, we are not all glory-seekers, some of us spend our lives in search of Truth and accept what we find regardless of what it might mean to us personally.

To be on the other side means you must assume that all humans are either just dumb or want to make some cash off of the rest of us. I do not see the World, or humanity, in that dark light, and I do not think it is the truth.

I read an interview on the MJ-12 main document site. Done by an ex-police detective with a very old woman who worked on the Roswell base in 1947.

She proved via documentation that she was there. She then, over a long series of questions and comments verified that something not-of-this Earth was recovered back then.

This lady has survived bouts of cancer, she could barely see, but she was still standing up for causes that mean something to her. She was active in the community and fairly popular if I can read between the lines just a bit.

Is she a liar? Was she so brain-addled then and now that she is making things up? That is what people have said and I say 'shame on you, is nothing good in this world, does no one deserve our respect?'. She was outraged at a recient TV special and felt that we should not keep up this government-approved lie.



A.T
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Originally posted by Alexander Tau

Side comment: Lucid Dreaming is not a sleep disorder and could in no way be the source of abduction feelings.

I made a mistake, you're right. It's not a sleep disorder. Thanks for the correction

But it can be a source of abduction feelings. For instance, most abductees are un-able to remember the events that occured. As with most dreams, but lucid dreams are most often recalled under hypnoses (sp?).

I have a book about sleep disorders and dream states that may account for some abductions, I'll have a search for it.

Oh I agree that sleep disorders can be the source of abduction feelings. But lucid dreams recalled under hypno are a little different.

The reason that everyone does not Lucid Dream naturally is that it requires a fairly strong personality to handle the experience. So what occurs naturally can be terrifying because you are not prepared for it.

So in that sense I agree with you.

A.T
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