Question "Is any of this stuff made in Israel?" Answer Fine of 6000 $

The purpose of this thread was to discuss the topic raised by ColdAnger.
Re-read the thread from the beginning.

This thread has been derailed.

The inability of some members to disassociate any topic subject that involves Israel from the conflict in the Middle East has been exploited.

Congratulations you have fallen into the trap.

Members,either dismayed or bored of reading the same regurgitated arguments,will only feel that those here who argue for the Palestinian cause are rightly considered prejudiced.

A little more focus and self control would not go amiss.

Of course,that is only my opinion.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
I could care less if a couple of nutty Jews wanna think god likes me better then everyone else, and everyone else should lick thier boot.

You seem to be using a different deffinition of zionism than the rest of us. Try to keep up.

Originally posted by Mycroft

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi

To a certain point, yes. But given the fundamentally racist beliefs of the israeli far-right, this sadly also implies maintining jewish superiority in Israel, hence race-based discrimination and ultimately deportation of palestinians. And you can't justify that.

[Edited on 13-8-2003 by Mokuhadzushi]

So if it were not for these things would you find Zionism acceptable?

First of all, it isnt up to me to finally judge a national ideology, except if that ideology infringes my universalist beliefs. The will of claiming a safe homeland for the Jews, after all the diatribe, is the most natural thing in the world. I feel that any people deserve their homeland if they wish so, including the palestinians...But it isnt up to Israel to decide where the palestinian homeland is. It wasnt up to Hitler either to decide where the jewish homeland would be. Of course, the situation in Israel is currently messed up, but deportation (BTW. do you agree that this is the logical consequence of Sharon's policies?) must be avoided, for the good of humanity. Peaceful solutions can be found and have already been found, a sad political murder attests this.

I think it's natural for people of a common origin, of common traditions to "stick together" when living in diaspora. It's a natural gregarious reflex and a widely observed phenomenon. So i have no problem with what could be called influence or lobbyism here or there, since in the end, it's articulation of the will of taxpayers and voters (The part of it which is articulation of financial power is of course ugly, but not essential here and now). However, i think many of these people just aren't conscious that they are really supporting extremists like Sharon, who openly disowns what good and civilization many other jews stand for.

Any people who, as John Bull suggested, would find that my opinions are pro-palestinian-biased are warmly invited to take place at this open table and should have their say.




[Edited on 14-8-2003 by Mokuhadzushi]

Originally posted by John bull 1
The purpose of this thread was to discuss the topic raised by ColdAnger.
Re-read the thread from the beginning.

This thread has been derailed.

The inability of some members to disassociate any topic subject that involves Israel from the conflict in the Middle East has been exploited.

Congratulations you have fallen into the trap.

Members,either dismayed or bored of reading the same regurgitated arguments,will only feel that those here who argue for the Palestinian cause are rightly considered prejudiced.

A little more focus and self control would not go amiss.

Of course,that is only my opinion.

Sorry but i disagree, the thread talks about how the law covers Israel to the public, they do it so much that this company got fined for saying just that the product was coming from Israel. This is just insane, obviously there should be a reason for protect SO MUCH a country?
Or that there are too much connections in the power of that country to have those kind of "privileges".
Otherwise JB1 how do you explain it?
And not only that, if you think about this little article just shows who pulls the strings right? And of course, let�s be honest, you all know the AID that Israel gets per year from america, plus protection, plus privacy, plus plus plus, and my question is, why help so much a little tiny country while the rest of the world is exploting?
Not only that, after what i know about the federal reserve, the american situation with the debt of 7 trillion $ that the citizenship has to pay (i guess u already pay almost 50% of your income in fed taxes and normal taxes) but is not enough, they want more, and part of it goes to this, and all for what?
That the question you should ask jb1, all is connected nothing happens by accident
Anyway the problem of open a thread regarding Jews-Zionists-Israel always gives troubles for everybody, tipical disscussion comes and it�s almost impossible to keep up the normal rhythm.

I�d like to have a normal disscussion like adults, and so on, but sometimes some get crazy blaming and insulting, and breaks the pace...

JB1 is a brit, like me (except i support a decent football team )

but the fact that he is a british taxpayer doesn't mean that he is uninvolved. the uk doesnt aid israel as much as the US but it still DOES.

Hence why in another thread I laughed when Leveler suggested that Europe has nothing ti do with Zionist NWO.

I dont believe this thread has been derailed. The whole point was to show extreme US Bias towards Israel, and favoprtism and special treatment denied other countries. And when discussing this thread, Zionism must come up because thats whats writing the policies in washington to do this.

Zionism: a small group of jews who think they are better than everyone else, and the concerns of a Jewish state override all others in the world, at the expense of everyone else. I dont see what other definition there is!

Originally posted by John bull 1


The inability of some members to disassociate any topic subject that involves Israel from the conflict in the Middle East has been exploited.

What do you think that the motives for posting this thread in the first place were then?

Get real. There would be no big deal and it would be no topic at all if the country in question weren't Israel.
This subject wouldn't have been commented on because it isn't interesting in the slightest.

A level playing field in business is what most normal people would expect to see. It's not a conspiratorial matter - IT'S ABOUT WHAT'S FAIR.
The anti-semites took this subject so they could twist it around and use it for their own agenda of hate.

Try and disassociate all you like and bury your moderating head in the sand.
This thread was derailed the moment it was posted and that was the author's intention. Just as it is in the vast majority of his posts.
Yes, they'll tell you that they're reasonable and not racist - but no reasonable and non racist person would have bothered making a thread in the first place debasing such a trivial matter as levelling the playing field for fair trade.

for throwing some light on the subject point to those (no names) who insist on saying someone MUST be a racist if they feel that israel gets away with murder (and they do, literally)

Originally posted by Leveller
The anti-semites took this subject so they could twist it around and use it for their own agenda of hate.

Please leveller STOP being so, i am really starting to think that u have absolutely NOTHING interesting to say never. Is the only thing that you can keep saying?
Even if it is demostrated that NOBODY HERE IS ANTI SEMITE?
Sorry but your attitude is unbelievable...

There you are CA. i thought that the ground had opened and swallowed you whole!

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Zionism: a small group of jews who think they are better than everyone else, and the concerns of a Jewish state override all others in the world, at the expense of everyone else.

It's a shame that you feel the need to have an enemy.
An enemy that you can't even directly prove is interfering with your life. An enemy that you have granted amazing, illogical power to. An enemy that logic states does not exist in the form ort the potency with which you endow it.
Yeah sure, you have your suspicions. But at the end of the day, you can only guess and therefore all of your hatred is founded without proof.
But I guess you need somebody to blame when things aren't going your way.

If it wasn't "Zionists", it would be someone else. Scapegoats are always convenient. History has proven this to be so.

Try looking in the mirror. Try seeing reality as it really is and stop blaming others for your predicament - incidentally, a predicament that you are quite capable of altering if only you get off your butt and do something about it.
The only one responsible for the sad state of your life is YOU!!!

Stop looking for excuses. Start looking for your own solutions.


Daystar - You have a quote about reality in your sig. I suggest that you try to understand what the reality actually is.

Originally posted by CoLD aNGeR

Sorry but your attitude is unbelievable...

Touche!!!

I think Leveller just intends to stir up vehement reactions so that this thread which isnt "politically correct" to him gets deleted. Again accusing posters of antisemitism instead of engaging us on the grounds of our (or my) conviction, universalism, openly reveals that aim. shame on you Leveller.

Boycott is one of the possibilities a consumer has to voice his opinion on issues like exploitation of workers, children labour or racism in the originating countries. Anti-boycott laws are therefore designed to suppress opinion. Many people "buy american" and that isnt illegal. Even more, governemental officials lately spewed hate at France and Germany, encouraging boycott of French or German products and that wasnt illegal either, it was governement-warranted. So i must conclude that discrimination against israel is illegal while it is encouraged against Europe ? Strange. The issue is therefore related to consumer rights and civil liberties, to the Bush administration, and to US hegemonial schemes.



[Edited on 14-8-2003 by Mokuhadzushi]

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi
I think Leveller just intends to stir up vehement reactions so that this thread which isnt "politically correct" to him gets deleted.

You accuse me of something that is totally untrue.
I hope this thread stays here.

You know why?

Because there is one big difference between you, Skadi, CA and Daystar and myself.
You all hate.
I don't.

I SUGGEST THAT YOU GROW UP AND STOP SLAGGING PEOPLE OFF, YOU'RE GETTING BORING. AND THE FACT THAT YOU INSIST ON STALKING COLD AROUND THE BOARD SHOWS THAT YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LIFE. AS FOR MY SIG, IT IS NOT A STATEMENT BY ME, IT IS A QUESTION FOR IDIOTS SUCH AS YOURSELF TO PONDER. FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU ACTUALLY LEFT YOUR FISHBOWL FANTASY WORLD ONCE IN A WHILE, YOU WOULD REALISE THAT PEOPLE WHO DISLIKE ISRAEL AREN'T ALWAYS RACISTS.

ENOUGH SAID.

Excuse me Leveller , but i don't "hate" either. Take a deep breath and show me where in this thread you can find hate in my posts. If you are an Israel-supporter, i can understand that you want to defend your piece of beef. But do it on the grounds of the discussion. What you are doing is unjustly labelling the posters and refusing discussion. Where is that going ? If everyone did that we would be all insulting each other.

Originally posted by Daystar
I SUGGEST THAT YOU GROW UP AND STOP SLAGGING PEOPLE OFF, YOU'RE GETTING BORING. AND THE FACT THAT YOU INSIST ON STALKING COLD AROUND THE BOARD SHOWS THAT YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LIFE. AS FOR MY SIG, IT IS NOT A STATEMENT BY ME, IT IS A QUESTION FOR IDIOTS SUCH AS YOURSELF TO PONDER. FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU ACTUALLY LEFT YOUR FISHBOWL FANTASY WORLD ONCE IN A WHILE, YOU WOULD REALISE THAT PEOPLE WHO DISLIKE ISRAEL AREN'T ALWAYS RACISTS.

ENOUGH SAID.

LOL. Silly child. No need to shout.
And in reply to your accusation: I have placed my opinion in this thread. All I have seen you do is write "I agree with...". No opinion. No idea.

As for nothing to do with my life?
You don't know me and you never will. Judgement that you have based on the single fact that I disagree with CA and Moku.
I would suggest that because I don't hate as much as you do, I have a far, far better life.

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi
Excuse me Leveller , but i don't "hate" either.

You don't hate? I find that very hard to believe when I look at your posts.
Nearly every time you enter a subject it is to lay blame - whether rightly or wrongly. If you don't hate why try to justify murder for either side?
Are you honestly telling me you don't hate?

Leveller, you confound ethical issues with hate. Wait ... that could be the point .. when you say that you don't hate, do you instead mean that you have no ethics ?

your the child here. your obviously pro israel, blindly. like i said you seem to think we are racists, you say i dont know you? you dont know us. ooops, i think i heard a pin drop.

as for shouting jerkweed, you are obviously deaf to everyone elses opinions but your own