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Scientology a Cult?

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posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 07:23 PM
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I was just watching Entertainment Tonight where they had an interview with Tom Cruise (famous actor person, in case you didn't already know who he is) where he proclaimed openly his belief in Scientology. Now maybe this is due to the tabloid nature of the show, however the points brought up in the vid-article-interview-thingy (whatever you want to call a tabloid interview) lead me to believe that Scientology could be 'cultish' in it's very makeup and practice. I am looking for other opinions/facts/knowledge regarding scientology and it's validity as a religion, a cult, or a leftist rich folks' version of atheism. To quote my old college roommate, "Wha'd'y'all think it works like?"

Seriously, Scientology is recognized as a religious (non-profit, governmentally protected) entity, however it seems to accept all religions into it's fold while at the same time claiming independence from these other religions. At first, while watching the piece, I thought "Okay, that kind of makes sense," but then I thought "Wait a minute, you can't have a Jewish Christian because Jewish religion does not accept Jesus Christ as their Savior," and you can't have a "Christian Muslim because, well, which is it, Jesus or Mohammed?"

Anyone out there who can shed some light on this interesting topic, please let me know what you think (meaning as In Your Opinion) and know (meaning as in Your Personal or Researched First-Hand Knowledge). However, please identify whether it is a 'think' or 'know' idea. Good luck, have fun!





posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 07:35 PM
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yes its a cult and its creator commited suicide with a 45 handgun to the head......

The end seems promising for those people.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 08:12 PM
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Good Catch !!

Tom has been an active member of Scientology for many years now. I am sure that the collection plate just loves him. John Travolta and the fat chick from the movie "Look whos talking ?" and cheers is also into Sceintology along with her husband.

I have always heard that when a giving member wants to leave the church they will do what they can to destroy you personally.

Oh yeah- This cult targets MONEY !!!

Like the robertfenix said L Ron Hubbard of Dianetics took his own life !

What Savior !!!! lol

Their teachings are based on Secular Humanism.

And you are absolutely correct. You cannot be a Christian Scientologist just like you cannot be a Christian Mason. The teachings go completly against eachother.

Have Fun Researching !
Truth !



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 08:16 PM
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There seem to be many negative aspects of Scientology... if you're looking for that perspective, this is a great site:

www.xenu.net...

They have a link to the unauthorized biography of Hubbard on there, which is a great read.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 08:19 PM
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The difference between a Church and a Cult is demographics..pure and simple.

Cults just get a bad name because they are smaller....



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
The difference between a Church and a Cult is demographics..pure and simple.

Cults just get a bad name because they are smaller....


Hey Stumason,

Can you please explain Demographics ?



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 08:28 PM
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Churches have lots and lots of members,

ie Roman Catholic Church = 1 billion been around for ages, ingrained in society and accpeted in Officialdom

Cult is more likely to be from a few up to maybe a few thousand, and not officially recognised and people will regard it as strnage because it is new.

But essentially, I was referring to size of the Church/cult, as the other things will slot into place if it gets big enough.

EDIT: the 2001 census in the UK proves my point. If more than 50,000 people (or something) claimed to be a Jedi, the Government would be forced to conceed it as an official religion. I put Jedi


[edit on 17/6/05 by stumason]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
The difference between a Church and a Cult is demographics..pure and simple.

Cults just get a bad name because they are smaller....


Scientology has officially registered itself as a church, and has over 300,000 followers worldwide, although they claim to have many more. It is not small by any means, but it is indeed a cult. They attempt to disconnect you from your family and all people who are against the church, they are completely against psychology and structured medical care, and when member cannot pay for his lessons, they ask the member to sign a contract volunteering to work for one billion years!

My best friend's cousin disappeared and we had to do research to try and find her. She rarely communicates with her family and, when she does, all she does is try to persuade her family to join Scientology. And forget about quitting. They have filed more lawsuits than any other organization in history. They destroy people through legal means, as well as financially.

VERY SCARY PEOPLE.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
Churches have lots and lots of members,

ie Roman Catholic Church = 1 billion been around for ages, ingrained in society and accpeted in Officialdom

Cult is more likely to be from a few up to maybe a few thousand, and not officially recognised and people will regard it as strnage because it is new.

But essentially, I was referring to size of the Church/cult, as the other things will slot into place if it gets big enough.

EDIT: the 2001 census in the UK proves my point. If more than 50,000 people (or something) claimed to be a Jedi, the Government would be forced to conceed it as an official religion. I put Jedi


[edit on 17/6/05 by stumason]



Well Noted Thanks !!!

Note: The amount of people does not distinguish the difference between a cult and a church ?

It might be a statistic that is true but has no designation.

Truth !





posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by Truthisoutthere
You cannot be a Christian Scientologist just like you cannot be a Christian Mason. The teachings go completly against eachother.


Mr. Truth:

I hate to change the subject of this thread, but I would like to ask of you that unless you are willing to back up your claim above, regarding Freemasonry, with facts, then stop making such absurd claims! I have shown you very clearly how Freemasonry's teaching descend straight from the Bible and therefore are 100% compatible, and you have done NOTHING to show otherwise. To keep making the same claim, which you know angers other members, without proving it makes you a troll. Please stop slamming Freemasonry with cheap shots, especially in threads that have nothing to do with it. Please stop being a troll.

* We now take you back to our regularly scheduled show in progress *



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by SimonColynAdrian

Anyone out there who can shed some light on this interesting topic, please let me know what you think (meaning as In Your Opinion) and know (meaning as in Your Personal or Researched First-Hand Knowledge). However, please identify whether it is a 'think' or 'know' idea. Good luck, have fun!



I was a Sea Org member for 5 years(I signed up for ONE BILLION YEARS), I worked at Celebrity Centre in Hollywood for 2 years. So I have first hand, personal experience......

Scientology can be a very hot topic on boards like this, but I notice that most of the people that post have no idea what they are talking about.
Most posters have never even been through the doors of a Scientology Church and only regurgitate what they have read in the media. (and most of that is false or sensationalized with exaggerated or lurid details)

And yes, it is a religion, and a valid religion. If you have any specific questions, I'll try to answer them as best I can. I'll watch this thread over the next few days and answer any questions that I have "first hand knowledge of".

One thing is, I have no experience with the church after LRH dropped his body. I left shortly after his memorial service. (the Scientologists were the only people in America that were happy to see the Challenger Shuttle explode, it took the church off the front page and out of the media at a very difficult time)



robertfenix: yes its a cult and its creator commited suicide with a 45 handgun to the head......

The end seems promising for those people.

robertfenix---- Back this up.... what is the source of the "45 handgun to the head"? What do you "know" about the Church of Scientology. What are your personal experiences with the church? Did you see the autopsy report? Were you there when he pulled the trigger?



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk

Mr. Truth:

I hate to change the subject of this thread, but I would like to ask of you that unless you are willing to back up your claim above, regarding Freemasonry, with facts, then stop making such absurd claims!


OK.... Tit For Tat, You back up the following---

Originally posted by sebatwerk: It is not small by any means, but it is indeed a cult. They attempt to disconnect you from your family and all people who are against the church, they are completely against psychology and structured medical care, and when member cannot pay for his lessons, they ask the member to sign a contract volunteering to work for one billion years!


A Minister at the Church of Scientology was the one person in the world that encouraged me to get back in touch with my parents, and I thank her for that.
One of the first lessons in Scientology is on the Dynamics of Life, and that includes strong ties to your family.
Some people just choose not to communicate with family members (for any number of reasons)
If an athiest chooses not to speak with an abusive father or an alcoholic mother, who do you blame? They are not in a cult or religion, but it still happens..................

I also did a lot of driving while working at Celebrity Center. I can tell you first hand, I have taken Scientologists to doctor appointments and to hospital emergency rooms when needed. (they do try a "touch assist" first, feel my finger etc...)



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:24 PM
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I suggest reading the book
Dianetics: The modern science to mental health.

It's a 500 page novel with a picture of a volcano on it. Not too expensive like in the proximity of 10 dollars canadian.


Cug

posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by anxietydisorder

I was a Sea Org member for 5 years(I signed up for ONE BILLION YEARS), I worked at Celebrity Centre in Hollywood for 2 years.


Off topic but.... this is what I like about ATS. In just about every subject in the secret societies forum, we can pull up someone so we can get both sides of the story.


Cug

posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by sebatwerk
My best friend's cousin disappeared and we had to do research to try and find her. She rarely communicates with her family and, when she does, all she does is try to persuade her family to join Scientology. And forget about quitting. They have filed more lawsuits than any other organization in history. They destroy people through legal means, as well as financially.

VERY SCARY PEOPLE.


Respectfully Seb, how is this statement any different than the “my friends brother who was a mason told him that they were evil” posts?

[edit on 6/17/2005 by Cug]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 11:59 PM
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Well, I can throw in something here.

I had two friends a few years back do some experimentation with scientology. They had no interest in joining the cult, but were interested in its recruiting methods.

Over the course of a few weeks they were invited back to the recruiting place, whatever it was, I dont remember, over and over again, and apparently it got stranger every time. I remember them telling me about a test the recruiters, or whatever you want to call them, performed on them. They put some kind of pressure sensitive devices in my friends' hands and they began saying different words to try and spark a reaction. Things such as wife, family, girlfriend, school, work,etc...I dont remember what the whole point of it all was though.

The last time they went in was when they were asked to speak to some "specialist" or something like that. They both put tacks in their shoes beforehand expecting the worst and low and behold they were right. Both of them were seperated and talked to two seperate people who apperently did some weird hypno therapy as they were calling it. Everytime my friends started to get tired theyd press their toe into the tack.

I was actually going to join up with these two guys and we were planning to dig a little deeper into all this but the hypno-therapy incident kind of scared us off from going to far into it.

True story, take it or leave it. They are a group to watch out for. I would NEVER let a friend or family member become involved with them.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by anxietydisorder
One thing is, I have no experience with the church after LRH dropped his body. I left shortly after his memorial service.


Did the reason you left the church have anything to do with the shift of power and the changes that were going on in the church at that time? Do you practice in the freezone? And if you don't mind me asking, how far had you progressed before you left the church?



And yes, it is a religion, and a valid religion

Sorry, another question. But you did offer. I know that there are people who use the techs but don't consider it to be their religion, while others say it is their religion. At what point does Scientology become your religion?



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by PlausibleDeniability

I remember them telling me about a test the recruiters, or whatever you want to call them, performed on them. They put some kind of pressure sensitive devices in my friends' hands and they began saying different words to try and spark a reaction. Things such as wife, family, girlfriend, school, work,etc...


Your friends were holding galvinized tin cans hooked up to an E-Meter. The words said by the auditor are from a list that was written by LRH (there are many lists) and each is designed to evoke different responses. And those resposes depend on the experiences of the person holding the cans.
If the auditor says the word "cat", and you had no tramatic or guilty feelings about cats, the auditor would get very little reading on the meter.
If the auditor says the word "girlfriend", and you had killed your last girlfriend, the auditor will see a reaction on the meter and know you had issues with that subject that needed to be dealt with.

You can think of this like the Catholic Church; they have a confessional, but the priest has to take you at your word. Not so with Scientology, the E-Meter will direct the auditor to any problem areas so that they can be addressed.

At no time were they under any kind of "weird hypno therapy", and they could have stood up and walked out at any time.............


They both put tacks in their shoes beforehand expecting the worst and low and behold they were right.

I've heard the thumb tack story before. It's been around for a while, and it's never first hand. It's always a friend or someone I knew etc........



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 02:20 AM
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Originally posted by anxietydisorder
A Minister at the Church of Scientology was the one person in the world that encouraged me to get back in touch with my parents, and I thank her for that.
One of the first lessons in Scientology is on the Dynamics of Life, and that includes strong ties to your family.
Some people just choose not to communicate with family members (for any number of reasons)


Does scientology persuade strong ties to your family, even if they are SPs??? A "S.P." is a SUPPRESSIVE PERSONALITY, or suppressive person, which is scientology talk (scientologists have a lot of their own slang) for someone who attempts to suppress a member's faith or interest in scientology. In other words, a SP is Scientology's way of referring to people who are against the "church" for any reason. Scientology is notorious for persuading members to avoid SPs at all costs, even if they are family.

Here is a link for Scientologists that explains SPs in [twisted] detail:
faq.scientology.org...
And this link has great information against Scientology:
www.suppressiveperson.org...

I remember my friend's sister getting calls from their cousin, in which the cousin, named Dawn, tried to convince Kellie that she was a SP and anti-social. She would then proceed to attempt to convince Kellie to go into the Scientology center to get this fixed. Kellie would refuse, and that's when Dawn would end the conversation. Even though nobody had heard from Dawn in a long time, all she wanted to talk about was Scientology.



I can tell you first hand, I have taken Scientologists to doctor appointments and to hospital emergency rooms when needed. (they do try a "touch assist" first, feel my finger etc...)


But a Scientologist receiving mental care is out of the question, correct?


[edit on 18-6-2005 by sebatwerk]



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 02:31 AM
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Originally posted by Duzey
Did the reason you left the church have anything to do with the shift of power and the changes that were going on in the church at that time? Do you practice in the freezone? And if you don't mind me asking, how far had you progressed before you left the church?

There were some very upset people after LRH left and the area that I worked (RFC or the Religious Freedom Crusade) had a vested interest in the future control of the Church. We dealt with the lawyers on one side and the body of the Church on the other. We were the people that put together the marches and rallies. We organized the demonstrations that marched around court houses and got the celebrities to the events to inspire the followers. We worked very close with the leadership of the Church and it was a time when lawsuits were more common than cockroaches. I don't want to come off like the rat that bailed on a sinking ship, but it was a good time to leave, for me.
As far as practicing in the "freezone": It will always be a part of my life. I learned some very valuable information that will always be incorporated into what I think and how I interact with the world, and I think I'm better for it.



Sorry, another question. But you did offer. I know that there are people who use the techs but don't consider it to be their religion, while others say it is their religion. At what point does Scientology become your religion?


I did offer, and you did ask, so............
The tech is what it is. And if you want to make it your religion it requires some faith, as it is with any religion. I walked away from Scientology not because I have no faith, I just couldn't confront the stark reality of my life at the time. It takes some big balls to sit down in that auditors chair and bare you sole to another person. The tech works, and I use it everyday, but it is not my religion.

[edit on 18-6-2005 by anxietydisorder]






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