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America's Wars: A Complete Sham

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posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 06:19 PM
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First of all, thousands dead on 9/11 pales in comparision to the over 115,000 Iraqi civilians killed since our invasion of their home country, who had nothing to do with 9/11; they were just unlucky about living on huge oil fields. Next, every war in American history has been a sham:

1) The American Revolution was based on grossely exxaggerated propaganda. The British actually treated us very well. The event that the propaganda was madly based on had only 6 people killed. And, we attacked the British troops first with rocks and ice : www.usfca.edu... . It wasn't a massacre at all.

2) The war of 1812 happened after a communications failure.

3) The Civil War was obviously our fault.

4) The Spanish-American war was based on the idea that the Spanish sunk an American ship for no reason. It later turned out that out that the ship, the Maine, was sunk by a malfunction in the ship. www.americaslibrary.gov... After the war, we didn't have to annex their territories either. We could have let them all become independent.

5) World War I was based on Germany sinking American cruise-liners with submarines. Guess what? We were shipping arms (bombs, etc.) to Britain on those cruise-liners. Germany had every right to attack those and we weren't remaining neutral. We were siding with Britain then because of economic interests (Before war we were neutral, 50% exports to britain 50% to Germany aka same to each country, during war Britain --> blockaded Germany and then the ratios were cut to mostly Britain and very little to Germany. Then we started becoming friends with Britain. We fought World War I on ECONOMIC INTERESTS. MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WERE DRAFTED AND DIED FOR DOLLARS. People trying to spread the truth were locked up by a government agency created then called the Committee on Public Information (CPI) whose purpose was to censor the press and squash protests.

6) Citizen interference and government sponsered propaganda led to American involvement (though not by military troops) in the Spanish American War. Which did not threaten us. But our government supported it anyways with money and propaganda.

7) We could have remained neutral in WWII. Going to war with Japan did not mean we had to go to war with Germany. And, it wasn't a moral thing either because we didn't know about the concentration camps then. And, they didn't exist then either. Also, FDR had been planning to get America involved in WWII for over 10 years. He started by forcing the Japanese to engage us by denying them oil then using that as an excuse to get involved in Europe. We didn't even fight the Japanese until years later. www.amconmag.com...

8) After WWII, it was decided that the fate of Korea would be decided by an election by the Korean people. The election would be held by the U.N. After the communist candidate won the election (through U.S assassinations and sabotage), the U.S declared the U.N election invalid and then blamed the war on Koreans attacking U.S troops in South Korea.

9) The event that the president used as justification for hte Vietnam War, the Gulf of Tonkin in reality never happened. It was said that a U.S. ship were just observing fighting in Vietnam and Vietnameze gunboats fired on the U.S. ship. We later learned, after the war of course, that the U.S. ship was not just observing but firing on Vietnameze positions and at the Vietnameze gunboats. The Vietnameze, not wanting a conflict with the U.S.A, didn't even fire back with their gunboats as self defense. President Johnon's estate grew by over 6,800% during this war.

10) We gave Iraq permission to invade Kuwait before Desert Storm. www.whatreallyhappened.com...

11) We had navy seals in Afghanistan on either september 9th or 13th, one of the two( We had a navy seals commando guy come into our school to give a propaganda presentation of the war on terror with us in 8th grade. im in 11th grade now. i think he said stuff he shouldnt have said) Either way, not enough time for Afghanistan to repond to our demands that they give us OBL. Our war was very premature. BTW We now have a very nice oil pipeline there!

12) There is very strong evidence of the Iraq War being a huge sham now, even only after 2 or 3 years and while we are still at war! Stuff like this didn't even come out for a decade accross the public mainstream after Vietnam! Who only knows what we'll find out a decade from now. Downing street memo: www.downingstreetmemo.com...

There you have it! America's Wars: A complete sham!




posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:12 PM
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found a problem with one of your points.

in ww2 you said we did not have to go to war with Germany

But after pearl, and we declared war on Japan

Germany and Italy declared war on the USA

so we were screwed into fighting all of the Axis, not just Japan

Germ declared war on us, not vice versa



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:36 PM
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Someone give me a oneliner here, k, cause I'm going to give one:

Selectovision 101, RedDragon. Comprende?




seekerof



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 11:36 PM
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What BS, this thread is design just to get a lot of mud throwing around, and anti american posts. All those war did not happen that way or the way. Anyone who wants to know the truth can research it for themselves. We don't need your objective and non partisan views here RedDragon.

This thread should be closed.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
What BS, this thread is design just to get a lot of mud throwing around, and anti american posts. All those war did not happen that way or the way. Anyone who wants to know the truth can research it for themselves. We don't need your objective and non partisan views here RedDragon.

This thread should be closed.




Is this an attempt at sarcasm? I don't get it Mr. Westpoint.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 12:32 PM
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Gee, only in the 11th grade, and he has solved history's greatest mysteries of US government covert action in its super secret campaign of world domination.

You're destined for greatness kid.......or a life of wallowing in your parents house, wondering why you don't have any friends.

It is quite amazing, that you blame 5 major conflicts of the last 100+ years, ALL on subversive actions of the USA. Shall we examine a little closer, with a clear mind? :

WWI was well on its way before the US became involved. Wilson was adament on keeping us out of another foriegn war...until Germany began her campaign of terror against maritime shipping. 3 years after hostilities began in Europe, the USA was forced to defend her liberty. US action in Europe brought an end to WWI...freeing Europe from anarchy and/or dictatorial existence.

While a catalyst for action, the destruction of the USS MAine was not the main reason for the US resolution for war against Spain. Spain recognised a state of war 4 days before the US declared war, and in fact started preperations for war before that. The ferver for action against Spain had been brewing for over 30 years already (since 1868), as the US tried to diplomatically force Spain to stop its aggressive annexation of Cuba, Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines. The US freed these area from a dictatorial and exploitive Spanish government.

WWII was already fully involved in Europe and the Pacific rim and China, by the aggressive, criminal, and murderous, Axis powers. The US was forced by Japan to finally declare war in order to protect its sovreignity. If conspiricy theorists can absolutely bring forth honest proof of Roosevelt "baiting" Japan into war, while Europe and Asia burned, I'll change my tune. The USA brought to bear her love of freedom against the Axis powers, and defeated them handily....freeing Europe once again from anarchy and/or a dictatorial existence.

Korea was invaded by a murderous, and aggressive communist force. The United Nations gathered together those nations willing to fight the spread of communism (until it went against its own agenda, of course). The USA, again, was able to muster the largest force of all nations, thus reloquating the Korean War as an "American" war. However, the USA drove the Korean communist forces to across the Yalu river into China, when China then became involved. Chinese communist forces, outnumbering UN forces by at least 6 to 1, pushed the Allies back to a perimeter around Pusan in southern Korea. General MacArthur rallied the UN, with a brilliant counter offensive which cut the communist forces in half, and completely cut off their supply. Rather than destroy the murderous aggressors, the UN stopped its forces from further violence, and negotiated a cease fire. We are STILL at a cease fire with North Korea....but we freed a nation from anarchy and/or a dictatorial existence.

Vietnam has been fending off invaders for thousands of years. The US became totally involved, when President Eisenhower sent in "advisors" to south Vietnam to help that nation from the aggressive and murderous communist government from the north. Due to UN intervention, and the subvertive action by the US press corp, the US government failed to fully prosecute the war against the north, nor better assimilate the south's forces. However, US training did allow the south's forces to contain the norths aggression until 1975. ...US action in Vietnam successfully contained communism to but a few areas in SEA, preventing a wholesale regional conversion to a murderous regime.....saving SEA from anarchy and/or a dictatorial existence.

The US intervened after Iraq, an aggressive dictatorship, invaded Kuwait with the intention of making her a territory. Along with a powerful coalition of the free worlds forces, the US pushed the Iraqi's out of Kuwait, destroyed much of the Iraqi military in place, and forced Saddam to negotiate for peace.... Thus freeing Kuwait from anarchy and/or a dictatorial existence.

Saddam refused to comply with 17 UN resolutions, failed to show the destruction of WMDs, failed to show destruction of his nuclear ambitions, and provided aid ,comfort, and training, to islamic terrorists around the world. The US, along with a powerful coalition, once again destroyed the Iraqi military in place, and is still destroying islamic terrorists that murder islamics out of hatred for freedom. The coalition will provide the means for the people of Iraq to establish the government that is controlled by the people alone....we are freeing the Iraqis from anarchy and/or a dictatorial existence.

Now, I know all you USA haters will try to tear apart my little essay. But you will not be able to change the real truth as I have repeated it. Alas, the conspiracy is out there, and it's all in your head



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 01:38 PM
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I think we had every right to declare independence from England.

Now with that in mind, it's amazing how tolerant we seem to have become over the past 200+ years. Some people think that we revolted over penny-ante stuff, and now look at the King George we're dealing with now!



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by Army
WWI was well on its way before the US became involved. Wilson was adament on keeping us out of another foriegn war...until Germany began her campaign of terror against maritime shipping. 3 years after hostilities began in Europe, the USA was forced to defend her liberty. US action in Europe brought an end to WWI...freeing Europe from anarchy and/or dictatorial existence.

Germany was a democracy back then and WWI changed little about dictatorships. The largest change was the replacement of the murderous rule of the czar with the murderous rule of the communists in Russia.



Originally posted by Army
Korea was invaded by a murderous, and aggressive communist force. The United Nations gathered together those nations willing to fight the spread of communism (until it went against its own agenda, of course).

The United Nations is an organization of nations, it is not a state on its own that takes initiatives. It was the US that gathered those nations together and only got the war approved by the UN by cleverly exploiting that the Soviet embassador was absent at the time of the vote or it never would have passed in the UN SC.



Originally posted by Army
General MacArthur rallied the UN, with a brilliant counter offensive which cut the communist forces in half, and completely cut off their supply. Rather than destroy the murderous aggressors, the UN stopped its forces from further violence, and negotiated a cease fire. We are STILL at a cease fire with North Korea....but we freed a nation from anarchy and/or a dictatorial existence.

Wrong, the war was stopped because it was becoming a stalemate and neither side gained much territory anymore. You didn't "free" any nation from anarchy or dictatorial existence as South Korea was a rightwing brutal dictatorship at the time. It's only in the long term that it appeared to be beneficial.



Originally posted by Army
Vietnam has been fending off invaders for thousands of years. The US became totally involved, when President Eisenhower sent in "advisors" to south Vietnam to help that nation from the aggressive and murderous communist government from the north. Due to UN intervention, and the subvertive action by the US press corp, the US government failed to fully prosecute the war against the north, nor better assimilate the south's forces.

South Vietnam was a dictatorship as well and Ho Chi Minh was contrary to Ngo Dinh Diem popular, to the point that the US feared that in a democratic election a socialist government would win. The attribution of the US loss to "UN intervention" is further ridiculous.



Originally posted by Army
The US intervened after Iraq, an aggressive dictatorship, invaded Kuwait with the intention of making her a territory. Along with a powerful coalition of the free worlds forces, the US pushed the Iraqi's out of Kuwait, destroyed much of the Iraqi military in place, and forced Saddam to negotiate for peace.... Thus freeing Kuwait from anarchy and/or a dictatorial existence.

Even more crap. You do seem to love the phrase "freeing countryxxx from anarchy and/or a dictatorial existence". Kuwait was and still is a dictatorship, that after the Gulf War was over proceeded with an ethnic cleansing campaign of around 300.000 Palestinians, a fact which never gained much attention in the US because US policy makers like to keep things simplified to the public: Iraqis bad guys, Kuwaitis good guys.



Originally posted by Army
Saddam refused to comply with 17 UN resolutions, failed to show the destruction of WMDs, failed to show destruction of his nuclear ambitions, and provided aid ,comfort, and training, to islamic terrorists around the world. The US, along with a powerful coalition, once again destroyed the Iraqi military in place, and is still destroying islamic terrorists that murder islamics out of hatred for freedom.

Still more crap. Saddam succeeded to show the destruction of his nuclear ambitions, Iraq was declared nuclear free by the IAEA in 1998. Considering chemical and biological weapons, he did indeed fail to demonstrate they wre destroyed, as it appears now rather because he couldn't than because he didn't want to or kept things behind. Saddam also didn't provide aid, comfort and training to islamic terrorists from around the world, or not that it was worth mentioning. US allies like Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and others were and still are bigger providers of terrorists than Iraq. The coalition also isn't powerful, perhaps the UK has some significance but it pretty much ends right there.



Originally posted by Army
Now, I know all you USA haters will try to tear apart my little essay. But you will not be able to change the real truth as I have repeated it. Alas, the conspiracy is out there, and it's all in your head

Well, the real truth apart from a few obvious errors that is. :



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 02:16 PM
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Now, I know all you USA haters will try to tear apart my little essay. But you will not be able to change the real truth as I have repeated it. Alas, the conspiracy is out there, and it's all in your head


You have voted Army for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Right on, my friend! It's a shame that the radical, left wing hippies who already dominate our universities have since spread their venom to our public schools. Now their propaganda and conservative-hating ideology is being force-fed to America's youth at the tax payers' expense. It is this kind of revisionist history, that RedDragon is spewing, that is being taught to our children. Liberals are now trying to minimize the courage, valor and sacrifice that our fighting men and women displayed during these great conflicts. But we know the truth. We know that these wars were fought as a last resort, or as a direct response to an attack on freedom itself. It is up to us to tell our future generations the TRUE story of American history.

Parents- review your children's schoolwork! See what the Liberals are teaching them when you're not around. Make sure you tell them the truth. Do not allow them to be brainwashed. 49% of this nation has already fallen victim to the contageous mental dissorder that is Liberalism! The only vaccine for this is TRUTH and FACTS, both of which are ignored and/or twisted by the Left!

LET FREEDOM REIGN!!!!



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 02:26 PM
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Saddam also didn't provide aid, comfort and training to islamic terrorists from around the world, or not that it was worth mentioning.


Sure, let's just ignore the $25,000 given by Iraq to the families of every suicide bomber who blew himself and innocent men, women and children up in Israel. But I guess according to your logic, 25,000 USD to a Palestinian family isn't worth mentioning!

Iraq was rightfully invaded and its evil regime rightfully toppled simply because, on a daily basis, Iraq fired at Coalition jets patrolling the No-Fly Zone (a direct result of the agreement signed by Saddam in 1991) which in itself is an ACT OF WAR. How many kicks to the nuts do you liberals expect our nation to take before our will and our word are actually backed up with more than just idle threats?

I need not mention the hundreds of other reasons for our rightful invasion of Iraq, for it would be a fruitless effort as you have already fallen victim to the Liberal propaganda machine!



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 02:48 PM
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Originally posted by Rasputin13
Sure, let's just ignore the $25,000 given by Iraq to the families of every suicide bomber who blew himself and innocent men, women and children up in Israel. But I guess according to your logic, 25,000 USD to a Palestinian family isn't worth mentioning!

Or the 10,000 dollars the Saudi gave, which are never mentioned in the US press. By the way, that is just moral support, it doesn't buy terrorists any weapons, ammo, or explosives as by the time their families get it, they are DEAD.



Originally posted by Rasputin13
Iraq was rightfully invaded and its evil regime rightfully toppled simply because, on a daily basis, Iraq fired at Coalition jets patrolling the No-Fly Zone (a direct result of the agreement signed by Saddam in 1991) which in itself is an ACT OF WAR.

Correct, however, an act of war by the US as it illegally invades the airspace of a sovereign nation. You seem to be under the popular impression that the No Fly zones were instituted by the UN. Wrong, there is no such thing in any UN resolution, the no fly zones were installed by the US, UK and France (which stopped enforcing them somewhere in the 90s) without any legal basis. Iraq had every right to shoot at those planes.



Originally posted by Rasputin13
I need not mention the hundreds of other reasons for our rightful invasion of Iraq, for it would be a fruitless effort as you have already fallen victim to the Liberal propaganda machine!

I'd like to hear them.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 03:25 PM
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Or the 10,000 dollars the Saudi gave, which are never mentioned in the US press. By the way, that is just moral support, it doesn't buy terrorists any weapons, ammo, or explosives as by the time their families get it, they are DEAD.


Are you kidding? I'd say the promise of $25,000 to your family is an INCENTIVE for any poor Palestinian willing to blow himself up on his enemy's territory just to give his surviving family a better life. And the US media has reported heavily in the past on Saudi "terror telethons" and Saudi financing of Palestinian terrorists.




Correct, however, an act of war by the US as it illegally invades the airspace of a sovereign nation. You seem to be under the popular impression that the No Fly zones were instituted by the UN. Wrong, there is no such thing in any UN resolution, the no fly zones were installed by the US, UK and France (which stopped enforcing them somewhere in the 90s) without any legal basis. Iraq had every right to shoot at those planes.


You don't even know what you're talking about. Part of the agreement which ended the Gulf War and what would have been the subsequent invasion of Baghdad, was that Saddam was not allowed to carry out military overflights in the Southern Shiite area and the Northern Kurdish areas. He was restricted to only using helicopters. This was part of a signed AGREEMENT. Therefore, the patrolling of the No-Fly Zone and the enforcement of the above mentioned agreement was perfectly legal. At no point did I imply that this was any sort of UN resolution, so please don't put words in my mouth just so you can try and make a point. And just because the French stopped patrolling the No-Fly Zone in the 90's doesn't mean a thing. Bringing the French to a military engagement is like bringing an accordian hunting in Maine.

As for me giving you the hundreds of justifiable reasons for invading Iraq, it'd be a waste of my time and everyone else's as I've already stated. You have already been brainwashed by the Left to the point where you'll refuse to believe anything that doesn't support your cause or your liberal point of view. I can only pray that someday your condition will be cured and you will no longer favor brutal dictatorial regimes and their rape rooms and crimes against humanity. You ignore the fact that no one person has been responsible for the deaths of more Muslims in the last 25 years than Saddam Hussein himself. But keep defending his right to rule. It really makes ya look good.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by Rasputin13
Are you kidding? I'd say the promise of $25,000 to your family is an INCENTIVE for any poor Palestinian willing to blow himself up on his enemy's territory just to give his surviving family a better life. And the US media has reported heavily in the past on Saudi "terror telethons" and Saudi financing of Palestinian terrorists.

Money is pretty low on the motivation list of suicide bombers. The 9-11 terrorists weren't exactly poor bastards either. And you seem to forget that - even if it doesn't matter after the facts - Israel usually levels the homes of the families of suicide bombers, preferably with the belonging still inside, so it is questionable whether 25,000$ offsets any such damage. As far as the media coverage of Saudi Arabia supporting that just as much as Iraq, allow me to have my doubts on that.



Originally posted by Rasputin13
You don't even know what you're talking about. Part of the agreement which ended the Gulf War and what would have been the subsequent invasion of Baghdad, was that Saddam was not allowed to carry out military overflights in the Southern Shiite area and the Northern Kurdish areas. He was restricted to only using helicopters. This was part of a signed AGREEMENT. Therefore, the patrolling of the No-Fly Zone and the enforcement of the above mentioned agreement was perfectly legal.

Incorrect. The restriction to helicopters only was a temporary agreement for as long as coalition troops were still in the country. No fly zones over the Kurdish and Shiite areas were never part of any US nor UN agreement with Iraq and were illegal. I further did not claim you said the no fly zones were part of a UN agreement, I did think you like many people had that impression. It appears you think of something else which is equally wrong.



Originally posted by Rasputin13
I can only pray that someday your condition will be cured and you will no longer favor brutal dictatorial regimes and their rape rooms and crimes against humanity.

Like Uzbekistan which the US favors, along with some other brutal dictatorial regimes? Say for example Saudi Arabia? As part of this huge PR operation, the US government was wailing about the deplorable situation of women in Afghanistan as one more reason why the Taliban should be ousted. Now you never hear a thing about the Afghan women anymore, yet their situation hasn't changed much in most of the country. Or for that matter you president's best friends Saudi Arabia, which hold the dubious honor of now being the country where women have the least rights. Don't give me your sanctimonious BS about the US being defender of human rights. Human rights are merely a public relations posterchild.

[edit on 18-6-2005 by Simon666]



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 07:51 PM
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First of all, thousands dead on 9/11 pales in comparision to the over 115,000 Iraqi civilians killed since our invasion of their home country, who had nothing to do with 9/11; they were just unlucky about living on huge oil fields. Next, every war in American history has been a sham:
Please address the following:
1. We go out of our way to minimize civillian losses. A lot of the 1600 of our dead was due to rules of engagement. A lot of people are dead to make sure innocents aren't killed.
2. There was no way we could beat Islamic terror and prevent future attacks 100% with Sadaam in power. Please explain how we defeat terrorism with Sadaam in power because I would sure like to hear it.
3. There are more lucrative oil deals in ANWAR, the Gulf of Mexico, Alberta and Venezuela then in Iraq. If Bush was oil mad, he would have taken these because he would make a lot more money with less risk.

As far as every war being a sham, I don't know what you are thinking. You deny the existence of concentration camps when Hitler and Reynard Heydrich admitted to designing them. Have you've ever meet a survivor of the Final Solution? Have you ever visited the sites of them?

And the Revolutionary War was unneccessary? I guess democracy is unneccessary too. I guess these human rights that you preach about whenever the US is to blame are unneccessary too.

And Simon666 is nit-picking over details. Sadaam trying to take over the Arab continent like Hitler in Europe is unacceptable. The 1990 war was a very just war. Kuwait was the lesser of two evils.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by Rasputin13



Now, I know all you USA haters will try to tear apart my little essay. But you will not be able to change the real truth as I have repeated it. Alas, the conspiracy is out there, and it's all in your head


You have voted Army for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Right on, my friend! It's a shame that the radical, left wing hippies who already dominate our universities have since spread their venom to our public schools. Now their propaganda and conservative-hating ideology is being force-fed to America's youth at the tax payers' expense. It is this kind of revisionist history, that RedDragon is spewing, that is being taught to our children. Liberals are now trying to minimize the courage, valor and sacrifice that our fighting men and women displayed during these great conflicts. But we know the truth. We know that these wars were fought as a last resort, or as a direct response to an attack on freedom itself. It is up to us to tell our future generations the TRUE story of American history.

Parents- review your children's schoolwork! See what the Liberals are teaching them when you're not around. Make sure you tell them the truth. Do not allow them to be brainwashed. 49% of this nation has already fallen victim to the contageous mental dissorder that is Liberalism! The only vaccine for this is TRUTH and FACTS, both of which are ignored and/or twisted by the Left!

LET FREEDOM REIGN!!!!


May I ask why you're propagating the left vs. right myth?

As the saying goes, even a blind pig can come up with an acorn every now and again. I'm a conservative, but I'm against the Iraq war. I'm not a neo-con.

The GOP has abandoned its conservative base and W is basically a closet liberal.

Something I'd like to ask the Bushies: Why do you hate America?



posted on Jun, 19 2005 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by RedWhiteandBlood
There was no way we could beat Islamic terror and prevent future attacks 100% with Sadaam in power. Please explain how we defeat terrorism with Sadaam in power because I would sure like to hear it.

First, it is Saddam, not Sadaam. Second, there is no way you can beat islamic terror and prevent future attacks full stop. There will always be islamic terrorists just like in a war against crime there will always be criminals. Third, the link of Iraq with terrorists was pretty small, you are aware I suppose that 15 of the 19 terrorists on 9-11 were Saudi and NONE were Iraqi? If we look at the nationalities of terrorists in Guantanamo Bay, there are further very little from the usual suspects Iran, Iraq and Syria, but a lot from regimes that the US has in its pocket. So in short, your assertion that there is no way to beat Islamic terror and prevent future attacks 100% with Saddam in power is plainly ridiculous.


Revealed: the nationalities of Guantanamo
WASHINGTON, Feb. 4 (UPI) -- At least 160 of the 650 detainees acknowledged by the Pentagon being held at the United States military base at Guantanamo, Cuba -- almost a quarter of the total -- are from Saudi Arabia, a special UPI survey can reveal.

In UPI's groundbreaking and detailed breakdown of the nationalities of the detainees, some arrested far from the 2001 battlefield of Afghanistan, the other top nationalities being held are Yemen with 85, Pakistan with 82, Jordan and Egypt, each with 30.


Notice that Iran, Iraq and Syria are nowhere to be found in the top 5 nationalities.



Originally posted by RedWhiteandBlood
There are more lucrative oil deals in ANWAR, the Gulf of Mexico, Alberta and Venezuela then in Iraq. If Bush was oil mad, he would have taken these because he would make a lot more money with less risk.

That wouldn't pass the democratic institutions in the US. Selling the Iraq war as part of a war easily passed as noone dared to vote against it for fear of looking unpatriotic and in support of terrorists.



Originally posted by RedWhiteandBlood
And Simon666 is nit-picking over details. Sadaam trying to take over the Arab continent like Hitler in Europe is unacceptable. The 1990 war was a very just war. Kuwait was the lesser of two evils.

Saddam did not try to take over the Arab continent. He just tried to take over Kuwait. The allegation of the US in the runup to the Gulf War that Iraq was preparing to invade Saudi Arabia was a scham as well designed to push Saudi Arabia into letting US troops on its soil. On a Russian satellite pic, there was no sign whatsoever of an Iraqi troop buildup near Saudi Arabia.

Further, Iraq - although legally they had no right whatsoever - had good reasons to move against Kuwait. It's not like he invaded Kuwait for the fun of it or to annoy the US. As a matter of fact Saddam even asked the US point of view to US embassador April Glaspie which gave Saddam the impression that the US wouldn't intervene. The reason for the invasion of Kuwait, was Kuwait's aggressive policy of economic warfare against Iraq, by three major actions:

1. Kuwait declared that the money it had given to Iraq to fight Iran, was a loan and not a gift, while Iraq had always assumed that the money Arab states like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait gave to fight Iran was a gift. Kuwait further sold this debt on the international market, which meant that Iraq had to pay it back in hard foreign currency.
2. Kuwait was stealing Iraq's own oil by slant drilling, you can be sure if Mexico tried to do the same with the US, there would be military action soon enough.
3. Kuwait was using this stolen Iraqi oil as well as its own oil to produce far above its OPEC quota. This brought the oil price down so much that Iraq's economy, already weak and recovering from the Iran Iraq war, went into a tailspin and Iraq couldn't possibly pay back its debt.

So please inform yourself so that you know what you talk about.




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