It doesn't really matter if Chinese tanks are getting better, or the fact that now have aircraft carriers and better subs.

What they have now, and have always had, is a truly colossal force of dedicated and (now) well equipped troops.

With the obvious decline in recruiting numbers for the US forces, this should be our biggest concern, not the new laser on the Type 98G.

The PLA is where it's at.

The American military has missed recruiting goals before. A small decline is hardly a big deal. America kept an army of over 2 million during the Cold War. Our population only continues to grow along with our economy. Our military hardly has to worry about troop strength. What is seen now is a situation created by bad policy.

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer

Both. Without their satellites, they can no longer pose a true threat to anyone. They can not keep up with world powers.

Russia can become a huge raw material exporter. with the right planning they can lead the world in raw material exports. their large but old nuclear forces still pose a great threat to anyone in the world

Yea, and you know the people of Vietnam just forget about being invaded, and having people killed by the Chinese throughout the 80's because a few Chinese politicians came to talk to their politicians...

im talking about trade relations not how ordinary people feel. it wouldn't matter if they hate china or chiense government they still have large amount of trade with it.

America and Russia "cooperate" like that.

mongolia relies on china now because the gap left by the soviet union has not been filled by russia.

You seem to confuse the normal talks governments have as some great signs of friendship. Neither can ignore each other, that doesn't mean either likes each other.

i dont want a relationship happening between china i want trade. in a few years china is going to be indias largest trading partner.

It works that way in every nation...

no it doesn't. military projects get funded with the money the government sets aside for defence the chiense government sets aside defence money and R&D

No, but America will have fifth generation fighters within 10 years, and any conflict with Taiwan involves America.

yes america will get involed. but will they or how they will send F-22 squardons to help taiwan.

your risking millions of american jobs by attacking chinese soil. america sent carriers in 1996 becuases they knew china wouldn't attack now china has capbility to attack will they still send carriers?

[edit on 20-6-2005 by chinawhite]

Originally posted by Dallas

So, where might you stand on China and their business relationship with Canada and USA ?

Everything Iv'e seen sells for about half price of our goods, after freight and almost non-existant Customs Tariff charges..

Dallas

1980s 90s chian had almost a non existent middle class. now with chinas huge middle class throught to be around 200-300 million. america is going to be missing out when chinas people really blossom.

trade isn't one way.. china buys lots from america and canada to.

Russia can become a huge raw material exporter. with the right planning they can lead the world in raw material exports.

Now if only they could get the massive investments needed...

their large but old nuclear forces still pose a great threat to anyone in the world

Only to nations who don't have nukes.

im talking about trade relations not how ordinary people feel. it wouldn't matter if they hate china or chiense government they still have large amount of trade with it.

That doesn't translate into an economic block such as the EU.

mongolia relies on china now because the gap left by the soviet union has not been filled by russia

It depends what you mean. They export heavily to China, but they still import more from Russia. They also have a great deal of trade with America.

no it doesn't. military projects get funded with the money the government sets aside for defence the chiense government sets aside defence money and R&D

Um, what does that have to do with what you're saying? The private sector does huge amounts of development on its own in America. One can't just look at the total American budget and think that's all there is to it. Companies like Lockheed and Boeing are some of the largest in the world.

yes america will get involed. but will they or how they will send F-22 squardons to help taiwan.

The same way we'd send F-15's and F-16's.

your risking millions of american jobs by attacking chinese soil. america sent carriers in 1996 becuases they knew china wouldn't attack now china has capbility to attack will they still send carriers?

Yes. You pose no threat to our carriers. You think J-10's scare America?

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer
The USSR never had the ability to strike where they wanted to. Their navy was not capable of delivering large numbers of troops around the world, nor would their economy be able to support such a thing. Russia never had a navy that could match America's.

Russia was nothing more than an excuse for the military. Russia never could have launched a successful offensive war against a major Western power. Any war of attrition would have been impossible for Russia to win. America probably could have even invaded Russia successfully.

China is far worse then Russia because they have the ability to surpass America economically, which also gives them the ability to pass us militarily.

China is the only the true threat to American power left in this world.

i read something along the same lines as what you posted somewhere.

people say russia wasn't a superpower but a thrid world country with a large military. the russian threat was very hyped up. they posed a threat to european countries and not much else. russia would have easily crushed europe in any military engagment but would have with huge losses.

russia has never been known for a large navy and didn't have the resources to embark on a program to have a american style navy.

Perhap's your not aware of US technology. I'm personaly confident there is a flying machine which reaches Mach 8 in high atmosphere flight.

Undetected by aggressor radar until its all to late; by hitting multiple targets from under-radar detection - in just seconds of reaching the Country(s) of stupid aggression or wishfull thinking. Think about it. eg what's replaced the SR71?

No, really..the US could make a mess of any worldwide tardet from the machines the world does'nt know about and perhap's never will !

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas

Perhap's your not aware of US technology. I'm personaly confident there is a flying machine which reaches Mach 8 in high atmosphere flight.

Undetected by aggressor radar until its all to late; by hitting multiple targets from under-radar detection - in just seconds of reaching the Country(s) of stupid aggression or wishfull thinking. Think about it. eg what's replaced the SR71?

No, really..the US could make a mess of any worldwide tardet from the machines the world does'nt know about and perhap's never will !

Dallas

america is investing in a large amount of projects that will bear friut or will not... but china only has limited goals to design a 5th gen fighter. while america is designing many other projects.

no one hear is saying that china can match america in power projection.. im saying that china can defend their own airspace. thats a fact. they can't stop b-2 bombers but they are researching ways to defeat them

PS: to westpoint you mentioned that china doesn't have know-how to build 5th gen fighters...now ask yourself when america was designing their 5th gen fighters did they have any know how .....

Really don't expect that you would speak on behalf of other people than yourself.

I personally think China's done a great job in commerce since being handed back Hong Kong. I also feel China's an ever advancing country economically.

Lastly, I feel China could be doing a bunch more to stop North Korea from advancing into nuclear weapons and more nuclear weapons that could be sold to nations looking to become extinct.

But I also believe and have already voiced my views that the US should take away China's MFN status now. And Canada should too.

As for delivery of weapons, I think any aggressive nation should be awfully watchful of the US black power. As it's scary!

Dallas

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer


Now if only they could get the massive investments needed...

many countries are investing. mainly china and japan

Only to nations who don't have nukes.

are you talking about M.A.D

That doesn't translate into an economic block such as the EU.

i dont mean with vietnam and mongolia. i mean with south-east asian countries. im not to sure but china has free-trade pacts with all those countries.

It depends what you mean. They export heavily to China, but they still import more from Russia. They also have a great deal of trade with America.

for transportation and also exports. china imports something like 70-90% of mongolias goods.

Um, what does that have to do with what you're saying? The private sector does huge amounts of development on its own in America. One can't just look at the total American budget and think that's all there is to it. Companies like Lockheed and Boeing are some of the largest in the world.

you said that american R&D is larger than chinas whole defense budget. and i said what numbers are you refering to because china has a lot of out of budget projects.

The same way we'd send F-15's and F-16's.

how are they going to send F-15s

Yes. You pose no threat to our carriers. You think J-10's scare America?

not the j-10 but hundreds-thousands of land based anti-missile launchers. 1000s of obsolete aircraft usful for swarming attacks. 40 odd destroyers 70+ submarines. and over 300 4th generation fighters.

this is in a hypothetical attack.


america last time deployed 2 carriers in the taiwan strait.

Originally posted by Dallas

Really don't expect that you would speak on behalf of other people than yourself.

I personally think China's done a great job in commerce since being handed back Hong Kong. I also feel China's an ever advancing country economically.

Lastly, I feel China could be doing a bunch more to stop North Korea from advancing into nuclear weapons and more nuclear weapons that could be sold to nations looking to become extinct.

But I also believe and have already voiced my views that the US should take away China's MFN status now. And Canada should too.

As for delivery of weapons, I think any aggressive nation should be awfully watchful of the US black power. As it's scary!

Dallas

sorry for asking but who did i speak for? was it the mongolia vietnam thing?


china has huge hurdles to overcome before it even thinks about a military engament with america....theres feeding the population economic progress. ageing population. unstable frontier areas.

china doesn't want military engament. it is most prosperous when their is peace. but america is trying to force china into engament

according to the CIA america only exports 795billion and imports 1.476trillion.

corrected me if im wrong isn't that a 681billion trade deficit

many countries are investing. mainly china and japan

If you're talking about oil, then yea. That's about it, though.

are you talking about M.A.D

Yes.

for transportation and also exports. china imports something like 70-90% of mongolias goods.

Not even close. It's 50% at most.

you said that american R&D is larger than chinas whole defense budget. and i said what numbers are you refering to because china has a lot of out of budget projects.

Do you have any specifics?

how are they going to send F-15s

On our massive and numerous aircraft carriers.

not the j-10 but hundreds-thousands of land based anti-missile launchers. 1000s of obsolete aircraft usful for swarming attacks. 40 odd destroyers 70+ submarines. and over 300 4th generation fighters.

Carriers would never have to come in range of China's land-based defenses. The missiles are no threat. China could never deploy thousands of their aircraft. It would have enough trouble deploying just the few fourth generation planes it has. They aren't all in one area.

And sorry, but all of that is just easy shooting. A few carrier groups can carry a few hundred fighters, all at the very least equal if not superior to the Chinese planes. The average F-22 could probably pick off Chinese planes until it runs out of missiles. Then our carries have their own missiles to fire off.

corrected me if im wrong isn't that a 681billion trade deficit

It means absolutely nothing. It's just a figure people who don't understand what they're talking about throw around.

china doesn't want military engament. it is most prosperous when their is peace. but america is trying to force china into engament

If China were in the our position, they would want military engagement.

[edit on 20-6-2005 by Disturbed Deliverer]

Originally posted by Disturbed Deliverer


Do you have any specifics?.

space, missile imported weapons

On our massive and numerous aircraft carriers.

you cant launch f-15s off a carrier. (i think)

Carriers would never have to come in range of China's land-based defenses. The missiles are no threat. China could never deploy thousands of their aircraft. It would have enough trouble deploying just the few fourth generation planes it has. They aren't all in one area.

And sorry, but all of that is just easy shooting. A few carrier groups can carry a few hundred fighters, all at the very least equal if not superior to the Chinese planes. The average F-22 could probably pick off Chinese planes until it runs out of missiles. Then our carries have their own missiles to fire off.

why couldn't china deploy a thousand aircraft?

if war is decleared than america wouldn't put carriers near land based aircraft.

in 1996 they put them around 100-200km from chinas coast..

It means absolutely nothing. It's just a figure people who don't understand what they're talking about throw around.

i dont know thats why i asked why. if you export only 795billion and import 1.47trillion thats a trade deficit or does america make up the money from selling government bonds?

If China were in the our position, they would want military engagement.

[edit on 20-6-2005 by Disturbed Deliverer]

any proof of that?

I’m going to say that if china manages to deploy the 1000+ obsolete planes it would just be target practice. The 72 subs china has are not that good, only about 8 of them are capable of threatening our ships in blue water. The rest are obsolete or do not perform well in deep water. And the 40 destroys probably have a US attack sub trailing them every time they venture out in the pacific.

Sorry you were saying how we feel and on your last reply seems your speaking for China too?

Not trying to be rude but when someone denies the very thing they are still doing while reponding to my enquiry then I'll point it out so I can learn if I mis-read.

Anyway, China's a rich nation these days while the likes of United States and Canada employment sinks below the rice fields due to our own stupidness allowing China MFN status.

Where are they at now?, nine billion people making 20 cents an hour while both the US and Canada pays 4.00 for a shirt made in China and 35.00 for a cotton shirt made in North America.

Seems to me there is a deficet. And we in North America should find a way to copete with such low wages for labor sensitive items made in the far east.

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas

Sorry you were saying how we feel and on your last reply seems your speaking for China too?

Not trying to be rude but when someone denies the very thing they are still doing while reponding to my enquiry then I'll point it out so I can learn if I mis-read.

Anyway, China's a rich nation these days while the likes of United States and Canada employment sinks below the rice fields due to our own stupidness allowing China MFN status.

Where are they at now?, nine billion people making 20 cents an hour while both the US and Canada pays 4.00 for a shirt made in China and 35.00 for a cotton shirt made in North America.

Seems to me there is a deficet. And we in North America should find a way to copete with such low wages for labor sensitive items made in the far east.

Dallas

im speaking for china because thats the government foriegn policy. sorry for sounding like i own the place but im just saying what the government says.

that 20cents a hour is good pay for a chinese.. is china the only country that has a trade defict with america? i dont think so

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I’m going to say that if china manages to deploy the 1000+ obsolete planes it would just be target practice. The 72 subs china has are not that good, only about 8 of them are capable of threatening our ships in blue water. The rest are obsolete or do not perform well in deep water. And the 40 destroys probably have a US attack sub trailing them every time they venture out in the pacific.

You are completely right about china not capable of taking on america in blue-water. the situation im talking about is the one in 1996 when america sent 2 carriers into the taiwan strait. thats less than 200miles a the longest point. well with-in the cover of land-based aircraft.

this is not a chinese attack on pearl habour its american intervention into the taiwan strait. i can think of nnumerous reasons why china has no blue-water cablility you dont have to point them out

You are completely right about china not capable of taking on america in blue-water. the situation im talking about is the one in 1996 when america sent 2 carriers into the taiwan strait.

In 96 when the two carriers were sent through the Twain straight they were sent there as a show of force. You really don't think if a war with Taiwan broke out we would deny our carries into the Twain straight do you?