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In the end, who is right?

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posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 12:51 AM
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A simple general topic, but really covers all aspects of the belief in E.T. life.

When covering topics of UFO's and aliens, everyone with a sighting seems to have a different story to tell. Now thats fine because UFO's, like automobiles, may come in different shapes and forms. When we talk about alien contact things tend to change.

We can agree that there are possibly multiple kinds of aliens, greys etc and thats alright.

But the stories are filled with contradictions to other peoples accounts.

Say one person mentions that aliens are helpful and kind, while others say they are mean and malicious. Well really which one is it?

This is just one example in the realm. We could go on and on.

1- Ufos Exist 2-Ufos don't exist
1-Something alien crashed 2-A weather balloon crashed

etc, etc.


Someone is lieing.

If one person claims they exist and another claims they don't, well someone is a liar.

In the end I think you understand where I am going with this.

Who really is telliing the truth?

Lets take the biggest example. Governments vs the Common man.

1-Governments say they dont exist
2-Man says they may exist


Man wants to believe but has no proof. Do you really think they are lieing?

Now this stems back to the first encounter on earth, the first man with language to spread the tale.

If the first tale is a lie perhaps the whole thing is sham. Is it that hard to believe? We have been on many many years. If they are coming (aliens) then where is the rock solid proof?

Do you really think the government can hide every single UFO that crashes, lands etc?

In the end you have a 50 percent chance of being right. Either they exist or they dont.

Stories dont hold up in a skeptic world.


I want to believe trust me, but im starting to think that they don't exist.

Prove me wrong.







posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:32 AM
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well i aint gonna prove you wrong, cause in a way, you are right. but perhaps both sides are true. aliens could be good and bad, i mean there are good and bad people right? that's why i believe this holds true for them aswell.

you could use the first argument for anything, like god and the bible for example. two people could debate for an eternity on the matter. what i believe matters is self experience. that's the only way you could agree without a doubt that that's the way it is.

people lie all the time, about everything. as to who tells the truth, well i suppose that it all depends on the facts, and how you use logic to decern it, but sometimes then it doesn't even make sense. i guess that's when some people use faith.

the government could well be in on it, as there are plenty of odd stories of suspicion, and supposed facts by ex-military officers, and even everyday people. and vice versa, they could be right about it, there's plenty of facts to back that aswell.

all i can say is that you will never know for sure, until you experience it for yourself. and if you really want to believe, then you will search for it.

dfh out.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 02:02 AM
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Say one person mentions that aliens are helpful and kind, while others say they are mean and malicious. Well really which one is it?


'They' are different people, who act differently by not only race, but in most cases by individual nature, just like humans.




If one person claims they exist and another claims they don't, well someone is a liar.


You can only claim what you know, you can guess at what is 'not' true, but that is called speculation.

Lots of people lie, but lots of people tell the truth too. Everyone has to be lying, or mistaken, for UFOs not to be real. Everyone.

Personally I think the case for something intelligent besides us was settled many years ago, but I respect each person's right to come to their own conclusion.




Do you really think the government can hide every single UFO that crashes, lands etc?


There have been very few crashes, so yes they can be kept quiet. And it seems that most Races that visit also wish to keep it quiet. So sure, between the two of them they keep the information secret. Plenty of leaks, tons of documents and pictures exist, but they are drowned in the hoaxes and intentional disinformation.

The secrets about UFOs are not kept just because they could, they have lead to power over the Planet for my Country. Not the only thing, not by a long shot, but a powerful element. It is simple in that respect, knowledge is power, secret knowledge is an edge over all others.

The very fact that you possess absolute knowledge of life from elsewhere than on Earth would open your mind. If you know something is possible, somehow, you can, and will, look for it with a fair chance of success.

I think this game of cat and mouse with the information has reached an interesting stage myself. The power we now have globally to communicate and share data makes me see the whole planet as just ready for something to happen.

Public polls show we are well past the 50% for people who generally believe that life exists elsewhere.

A.T
(-)



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 02:25 AM
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I think you are on the right track.


At first, it's fun and exciting to consider all the possibilities. But after a while, reality sets in and you realize that for a global phenomenon there should be definitive proof all over the place. But, there simply isn't. The government stuff could account for maybe 2% of it, but where's the rest?

This line of thinking will get you back on track. Intelligent life elsewhere in the universe? Hmm, it's tough to say. The guys and gals at NASA (which, I might add, are the REAL experts on things cosmic--despite what some members of the UFO money making machine might lead you to believe) are working towards that everyday. But spacemen who visit the Earth frequently? I don't think so.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 03:06 AM
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Ask OJ!! He knows!



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:14 AM
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Say one person mentions that aliens are helpful and kind, while others say they are mean and malicious. Well really which one is it?


Are all humans helpful and kind, or are they mean and malicious?

I believe you have your answer...



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:28 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok


Say one person mentions that aliens are helpful and kind, while others say they are mean and malicious. Well really which one is it?


Are all humans helpful and kind, or are they mean and malicious?

I believe you have your answer...


But you would somewhat think(well, I think so anyway) that they would have a common agenda, a common goal, so that they would maybe act the same way?
My two cents



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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Okay, I'll respond to this.

If your a hardcore YES or NO on either side, then your not right. If your in the middle, open to the possibility of anything, but only belive it with proof, then your right.

As for evidence and such, on the hardcore YES side the frequent arguement is, you do not understand because they use magic and spiritual advanced means and such, they don't leave physical proof.. what is physical? They travel through planes of existance.. etc etc. But they don't prove the existance of planes and stuff either, but say you don't have to, you just have to have faith, hug your spirit feather.. listen to your heart.. etc.

The hardcore NO side says that's way too weird. They will be exactly like us, and leave proof exactly like us, and act exactly like us.. besides how can they travel here? It's too far. That type of thinking is also wrong, your putting limitations on something that can not be limited.

There is never a real absolute, right or wrong.. but in this case the one who is open to the possibility of anything, but will only truley belive it unless we can prove it on OUR scientific level is right. If you think that way, you get a skeptic with an open mind, and stays clear of insanity.

Anything is possible, and you can belive in anything, but don't ACT as if you belive it unless you can prove it.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:47 AM
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My personal belief is that there is simply too much evidence to ignore it.
So, yes, I believe that there is SOMETHING to it, how much importance it holds I'm not sure of, but it seems pretty significant.
Wether we will ever know who is right or wrong in this life, I don't know, but hopefully



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:51 AM
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I agree with deaf fences hit. There isn't just one bad Alien or one good Alien. Just like humans!

If there were no Aliens/UFO's then why are there thousands of reports on such things. Yes you are going to get some that are bogas, but most of them are real. I think we all know that answer to this question:

Who is lying here?



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by Phood
My personal belief is that there is simply too much evidence to ignore it.
So, yes, I believe that there is SOMETHING to it, how much importance it holds I'm not sure of, but it seems pretty significant.
Wether we will ever know who is right or wrong in this life, I don't know, but hopefully


Oh don't ignore it. There is SOMETHING.

But in the end, you'll find out that neither is completley right.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 11:38 AM
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I don't understand why hard evidence should be everywhere?

1.) There is evidence that shows Governments confiscate, and hide Alien evidence.

2.)If no physical contact occurs, you can assume no evidence will be present.

In Forensics , there is the automatic assumption that trace evidence is left behind after all , or any contact.( Usually with regard to people , i.e. Walking into a room you would leave foot prints , hair, finger prints, fibers, etc.) However this is not always the case.

It is not possible IMO to carry these same assumptions into the UFO field.

1.) Aliens (if they exist) would be intelligent , would understand cross-contamination, would take measures to avoid this when possible. ( Un-like many of today’s criminals.)

2.) Many very credible sightings , close-encounters, do not involve physical contact , that would lead to hard evidence. ( Myself , Living underneath flight lanes heading in, and out of DF/W , see these flights everyday in the sky , and would not be able to hand over hard evidence that they exist(Passenger Jets).

Having experienced a Close - Encounter myself , I do not have hard evidence to prove it.

Sometimes I'm glad that I don't , what would happen to me then if I did?

What about my family?

Would the Government confiscate me ?



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by lost_shaman
I don't understand why hard evidence should be everywhere?

1.) Aliens (if they exist) would be intelligent , would understand cross-contamination, would take measures to avoid this when possible. ( Un-like many of today’s criminals.)



Hard Evidence should be presented, because without it the explanations of explaining what really happens are endless. If you see a light in the sky, it could be aliens, but it could be just about anything if you have no evidence.

Hallucinations
Angels
Spirits
Ghosts
Flashlight thrown out of a plane.
Intellegent Flying Flames
Magic Glowing Flying Monkeys
Giant Intellegent Onions that are in two dimensions at once, and reflecting a glare from the 57 suns in the other dimension.

It can be ANYTHING.

Also.. Why do you assume aliens HAVE to be intellgent? I know it has nothing to do with my previous arguement, I just thought that was a pretty close-minded remark. I mean.. they could be giant living molecules that have been preprogrammed to transport matter from a distant planet.. lol who knows.


Without evidence we can't prove much.

[edit on 17-6-2005 by Ksnazdnzon]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by Ksnazdnzon
Without evidence we can't prove much.


Yes, but we can still research!



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Dulcimer
A simple general topic, but really covers all aspects of the belief in E.T. life.

When covering topics of UFO's and aliens, everyone with a sighting seems to have a different story to tell. Now thats fine because UFO's, like automobiles, may come in different shapes and forms. When we talk about alien contact things tend to change.

We can agree that there are possibly multiple kinds of aliens, greys etc and thats alright.

But the stories are filled with contradictions to other peoples accounts.

Say one person mentions that aliens are helpful and kind, while others say they are mean and malicious. Well really which one is it?

This is just one example in the realm. We could go on and on.

1- Ufos Exist 2-Ufos don't exist
1-Something alien crashed 2-A weather balloon crashed

etc, etc.


Someone is lieing.

If one person claims they exist and another claims they don't, well someone is a liar.


I think youre dealing in absolutes, and I dont believe we can do that in this area of discussions.

Remember, it's not a lie if the person saying whatever, believes it. There's plenty of things people believe, that just arent true....but they believe it, so they arent lying. (from their POV)



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by Ksnazdnzon

Hard Evidence should be presented, because without it the explanations of explaining what really happens are endless. If you see a light in the sky, it could be aliens, but it could be just about anything if you have no evidence.

Hallucinations
Angels
Spirits
Ghosts
Flashlight thrown out of a plane.
Intellegent Flying Flames
Magic Glowing Flying Monkeys
Giant Intellegent Onions that are in two dimensions at once, and reflecting a glare from the 57 suns in the other dimension.

It can be ANYTHING.

Also.. Why do you assume aliens HAVE to be intellgent? I know it has nothing to do with my previous arguement, I just thought that was a pretty close-minded remark. I mean.. they could be giant living molecules that have been preprogrammed to transport matter from a distant planet.. lol who knows.


Without evidence we can't prove much.

[edit on 17-6-2005 by Ksnazdnzon]


First , we have tons of " Soft" evidence , enough to make a conviction in a court of law!

I personally assume that intelligence is involved , my own experience suggests this.

Also , beyond that , to get here would require navigation, and planning, (i.e. life-support systems, bringing or making food along the way and supporting themselves while they are here), once here more navigation is required to get anywhere in particular.

All these things would suggest this would not be possible or feasible without intelligence.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by lost_shaman

Originally posted by Ksnazdnzon

Hard Evidence should be presented, because without it the explanations of explaining what really happens are endless. If you see a light in the sky, it could be aliens, but it could be just about anything if you have no evidence.

Hallucinations
Angels
Spirits
Ghosts
Flashlight thrown out of a plane.
Intellegent Flying Flames
Magic Glowing Flying Monkeys
Giant Intellegent Onions that are in two dimensions at once, and reflecting a glare from the 57 suns in the other dimension.

It can be ANYTHING.

Also.. Why do you assume aliens HAVE to be intellgent? I know it has nothing to do with my previous arguement, I just thought that was a pretty close-minded remark. I mean.. they could be giant living molecules that have been preprogrammed to transport matter from a distant planet.. lol who knows.


Without evidence we can't prove much.

[edit on 17-6-2005 by Ksnazdnzon]


Also , beyond that , to get here would require navigation, and planning, (i.e. life-support systems, bringing or making food along the way and supporting themselves while they are here), once here more navigation is required to get anywhere in particular.



So they can get here by means unimaginable and undiscovered by human science, but would still follow and act like a human in every other way? Right.

We can't apply any of our human ideas to aliens, we just have to figure out if they are here with concrete proof.

If we can't find that, doesn't mean they are not here.. but it means anything could be here. I mean I can't prove giant onions are controlling all your thoughts but it doesn't mean they are not doing it.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by Ksnazdnzon
So they can get here by means unimaginable and undiscovered by human science, but would still follow and act like a human in every other way? Right.

We can't apply any of our human ideas to aliens, we just have to figure out if they are here with concrete proof.

If we can't find that, doesn't mean they are not here.. but it means anything could be here. I mean I can't prove giant onions are controlling all your thoughts but it doesn't mean they are not doing it.


I have never applied Human atributes to Aliens.

If you assume that Physics as we know it , still applies to them , as it does to us, by that I mean Biological functions, then yes we would share some traits with Aliens.

Notice I did not say " Human Navigation" or " Human life-support systems" or " Human Food stuffs".



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:55 PM
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But you would somewhat think(well, I think so anyway) that they would have a common agenda, a common goal, so that they would maybe act the same way?
My two cents


Very true, and for all we know, they may not have different motivations/behaviors, etc. like we do....so it's all speculation....

We'll only know who's "right" when their existence is a recognized fact versus a theory.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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First , we have tons of " Soft" evidence , enough to make a conviction in a court of law!


Are you sure about this bit?

I've read myriad personal stories and anecdotes, theories and assumptions, but I've seen very, very little evidence - soft or hard. Help me out here?
Second hand information and lack of physical evidence would make a conviction very, very difficult....

I'm still sitting on the fence on this entire issue, though I'm yet to see compelling evidence of the existence of alien life forms, although it's not outwith the realms of possibility for such evidence, if it existed, to have been squirrelled away by (insert government/agency/other party).

It seems outlandish though, to think that nobody - ever, anywhere - has ever been able to sneak, steal, borrow, or otherwise obtain, this hard evidence and get it out there in the public eye.

I'd also be interested in the claim made earlier, that there's more than enough proof that governments have taken/stolen evidence of alien contact. What is this proof?


One other thing. It's flawed logic to think "millions of stories mean that there must be truth to it". Remember, millions of us also thought the earth was flat, because of various stories related to travels and theories related therein.

And of course, that turned out to be false.




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