NEWS: Teen Sent To Gay "Treatment" Camp Against His Will

Originally posted by BadMojo
Well, xmotex, IF that were true, then you might be correct. But I fear that, at this point, your fantasy of being able state that homosexuality is a "biological preprogram" is merely that. Good luck, but I wouldn't advise holding your breath.

To be honest I kind of understand slanks angry replies to your rather silly way of looking at things BadMojo.
Yes you are respectfull, and yes you are one of the first "being gay is a choice" ATSers that's capable of having a normal conversation, but when slank says it is not a choice, who are you to claim otherwise?

In the end BadMojo, you should be glad you were born straight, you should thank God for the priviledge of not having to deal with the religious nutcases that think being part of a heavily discriminized minority is a choice or a lifestyle. Untill you finally understand your own sexuality and your own unchangable desires, you may start to understand that gay people are actually exactly the same.

[edit on 20-6-2005 by Jakko]

interpid, I've already posted scripture regarding this issue. I would be glad to post more or show the same. But you said you don't want to see them. Please make up your mind...

Interesting topic so far.

While I feel the young man in question shouldn't be sent off to "Straight" Boot Camp, he should at least consider counseling. There is nothing wrong with two mature adults consenting to have a same sex relationship. Whatever rocks your boat and makes you happy, I say.

The thing is a 17 year old in the greater scheme of things is still waiting for the hormones to stop whizzing about. Ask any guy what is was like to be 17 years old and the fact that sex was pretty much all we thought about would be the norm.

If there was a way this young man could talk with others, including gay men about the lifestyle choice he is about to make. This would be infinitely better than having the corners cut off the square peg. I am not sure how I would react in the same situation as his parents. I hope I would be calm enough to sit down and talk things through with my child and make sure they are making the right choice.

As for gay agenda, remember how feminism was once the great demon that was going to destroy society. Homosexuality as a fad will die out also and the real homosexuals will have the benefit of a more open and tolerant society.

One problem I do see however, is that while there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, we live in an age where sexuality itself is promoted to everyone from a too young age. There are obviously serious consequences, and when society tries to warn young people on the dangers, physical, mental and spiritual of being overly promiscuous, we get shouted down. Especially so if we try to discourage young gay men from a dangerous lifestyle. It should be about their well-being rather than our spiritual mores being offended.

So my final comment on this young man is that I hope he doesn't let all this attention from the world get to his head and that when he makes his lifestyle choices he makes them for himself, with a clear head and not for the sake of either popularity or conformity.

In the end, if he turns out to be gay, best of luck to him, I hope he has a happy life.

Originally posted by xmotex
Since they'll never accept that homosexuality has a biological component even if it's proven beyond a doubt, I don't think it will become an issue.

Look at it this way: they can't admit that, it threatens their whole world view. So they will simply ignore anything that points to that. Theologically, they have to believe it's a conscious choice, anything else would be admitting that God programs people before birth for behavior God condemns, an unacceptable paradox.

The truth? The truth doesn't matter one little bit.
They have to believe in a fantasy world of black and white morality, of simple answers, because they can't cope with the ambiguities of the real world. It's scary having to decide what's right and wrong for yourself, it's much easier to pretend that someone has already written down all the answers.

[edit on 6/20/05 by xmotex]

You could also argue that they missread the bible and God doesn't forbid being gay, alot gets lost in translation and egos. pages.prodigy.net...

Originally posted by Intel5

You could also argue that they missread the bible and God doesn't forbid being gay, alot gets lost in translation and egos. pages.prodigy.net...

That's a great link intel.
Seems like the author really put a lot of time and effort into finding out the truth regarding this subject.

intel and jakko, that is a misinterpreted and blasphemous article.

A physical and spiritual covenant does not mean that they got married or had intercourse...e-gad. So, if I say that I love my very own brother with my soul that I am having intercourse with him. Do you love your father? Your friends? Highly inaccurate...

"Son-in-law a second time"- for a SECOND time you MAY be my son-in-law today. Note the emphasis...an issue of the author's misreading. For the second time in one day (he did not marry Merab) there was a chance that David MAY BE his son-in-law.

If you insist on me refuting the rest of the article, I will, but it is beginning to make me sick to my stomach...

Originally posted by BadMojo
intel and jakko, that is a misinterpreted and blasphemous article.

A physical and spiritual covenant does not mean that they got married or had intercourse...e-gad. So, if I say that I love my very own brother with my soul that I am having intercourse with him. Do you love your father? Your friends? Highly inaccurate...

"Son-in-law a second time"- for a SECOND time you MAY be my son-in-law today. Note the emphasis...an issue of the author's misreading. For the second time in one day (he did not marry Merab) there was a chance that David MAY BE his son-in-law.

If you insist on me refuting the rest of the article, I will, but it is beginning to make me sick to my stomach...

covenant:
A binding agreement
Law:
.....A formal sealed agreement or contract.
==========
You have this with your family?

A bit of context morphing there? (referring to your sex with bro comment)

Misfit

edit = "referring" comment

[edit on 22-6-2005 by Misfit]

misfit, that was an arguement taken from the posted link. David made a covenant with Timothy and loved him as his own sould. The author pointed out that soul would be a combination of physical and spiritual, and that covenant would be marriage. Thus the author inferred that the two men had intercourse. (rough paraphrasing)

Quite wrong...

Originally posted by BadMojo
Quite wrong...

How is it quite wrong? When it comes to the bible, nothing is literal and all is left to interpretation. It's not like a text-book in black and white, it's a book that has to be decipher.

Misift

From google:

Covenant , meaning a solemn contract, is the customary word used to translate the Hebrew word berith (ברית, Tiberian Hebrew bər ṯ, Standard Hebrew bərit) as it is used in the Hebrew Bible.

soul-the immaterial part of a person; the actuating cause of an individual life

No mention of marriage or intercourse...apparently the author was not very good at decyphering. Besides, marriage is only used twice in the OT; neither pertaining to this.

[edit on 22-6-2005 by BadMojo]

Originally posted by BadMojo
intel and jakko, that is a misinterpreted and blasphemous article.

A physical and spiritual covenant does not mean that they got married or had intercourse...e-gad. So, if I say that I love my very own brother with my soul that I am having intercourse with him. Do you love your father? Your friends? Highly inaccurate...

Did you read the article?
The article does not even claim such things, it just explains what kind of covenants are possible, how it should have been translated in the first place, and why the current translations can be understood in multiple way.

"Son-in-law a second time"- for a SECOND time you MAY be my son-in-law today. Note the emphasis...an issue of the author's misreading. For the second time in one day (he did not marry Merab) there was a chance that David MAY BE his son-in-law.

And what exactly does that change then?

If you insist on me refuting the rest of the article, I will, but it is beginning to make me sick to my stomach...

That's pathetic.
The article is not badly written, and makes a lot of sense regarding a lot of points, if you're narrow mind can't handle a fresh few like this you should have stayed away from ATS to begin with.

People who have sex with the same sex is wrong, but mules are a-ok according to republicans...

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyways, don't see Wiccans, buddists, or athiests doing this. So, who has more morals.....

Originally posted by James the Lesser
People who have sex with the same sex is wrong, but mules are a-ok according to republicans...

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyways, don't see Wiccans, buddists, or athiests doing this. So, who has more morals.....

Shhh James.
Don't derail yet another thread, it's getting really old.

So basically this thread has come to the conclusion that, like in the case of BadMojo, ignorance in the form of static belief is just annoying. Anybody else have anything to add?

HSo, what has happened, has there been any more news, was he sent to this horror camp or what?




Oh and WOOT 1,000th post.

There has been a lot of news coverage of this story.
And a postcard campaign started by some folks at that myspace group.

Several of these "Ex-Gay" ministries actually admit that their treatments do not work.

And the AMA, APA, AAP, etc have all released statements saying that reparative therapy on its own is harmful, damaging and useless, as well as the fact that sexual orientation cannot be changed.





http://



www.myspace.com...

www.lookmarks.com...

Cheers!
chrometuna

Funny thing though, the parents send their kids to a fundamental camp to get rid of his gayness. fine, they're sending him to camp. The thing is, will this be the norm for people who resist the New World Order? Is what Alex Jones saying coming to past? Keep an eye on this topic. Imagine members of Skull and Bones ruling the planet and to reinforce the the belief, be sent to Bohemian grove? Wait it's already happening

[edit on 9-7-2005 by Japanese_American]

"I would rather you commit suicide than have you leave Love In Action wanting to return to the gay lifestyle. In a physical death you could still have a spiritual resurrection; whereas, returning to homosexuality you are yielding yourself to a spiritual death from which there is no recovery."

John Smid

A classic example of religion being distorted into an instrument of ignorance and fear.

"What is the cost?"

A: The cost for the two-week commitment is $1,500 and the cost for the six-week commitment is $4,000.

www.asafeplace.org...

Gods help does not come cheap.

It is ironic that this organisation has adopted the name 'love in action'; maybe they should consider using 'bigots in action'?

My mother has said the worst things to me for three days straight... three days. I went numb. That's the only way I can get through this. I agree, if you're thinking that these posts might be dramatized.. but the proof of the programs ideas are sitting in the rules. I pray this blows over. I can't take this... noone can... not really, this kind of thing tears you apart emotionally. To introduce THIS subject... I'm not a suicidal person... really I'm not.. I think it's stupid - really. But.. I can't help it, no im not going to commit suicide, all I can think about is killing my mother and myself.

Zach

It might not be a coincidence that John Smid talks about suicide and then Zach mentions suicide in his last post, dated the 3rd. of June.

"I would rather you commit suicide than have you leave Love In Action wanting to return to the gay lifestyle.

John Smid

If this is their method of conversion on impressionable young minds, then it needs to be reported to the authorities.

[edit on 9-7-2005 by shanti23]

The Child Protective Services of tennessee launched an investigation into Love In Action, but then called off the investigation 3 days later, saying almost contradictally (Is that a word?) that they had called off the investigation AND "found no evidence of child abuse". (In tenn, it is VERY hard to prove emotional or mantal abuse, so if they didnt see kids getting beaten they probably HAVE to say they saw no abuse...on the other hand, Al Gore is still a major player in Tenn...and he has such a bad habit of sucking up to the religious right...almost worse then Dubya.)

But NOW, the Tenn regulatory board has launched an investigation in LIAr because they have NO license, and none of their staff is accredited in therapy, or treatment, and only ONLY of them is an "Addiction councilor" (Which basicly means he's sober and went through AA or NA)

John Smid, that whack-job that runs the place has only a high school diploma.

The Tenn regulatory board sent them a letter bascily saying "Cease and desist, because you are not licenses, now come in and apply for one, or quit altogether" Im sure that Smid's lawyers are franticly searching for a loop-hole, probably hoping to play on the "But were a CHURCH, and this is our MINISTRY" (However, their own promo material and website claims that they are a "treatment center" that treats "Broken addictive habits, drug addictions, porn addictions and homosexuality"...at $1500 bucks a week.)

I would bet that there is no way that the regulatory board would give them a license based on what they are doing, and if they DID get a license, then theyd have to meet and conform to the strict standards and accepted treatment and theraputic protocols of Tennessee....which their current activities would NOT pass muster on.

Zach has 3 more weeks to go, LIAr extended his stay as soon as the # hit the fan on the blogosphere and mainstream news. We are quite sure that Smid is franticly trying to "straighten Zach Out" in order to make him a poster child for HIS cause, and to save face.

That poor kid is going to be so confused, wrapped tight, brainwashed and head-spinning when he gets out that when Smid wheels him out in front of the camera, with his puppet strings and Pavlovian bells and whistles that the poor kid will probably roboticly say "Yes, master has cured me, I am walking with Jesus now, Im straight, praise the lord....please dont beat me massah, My name Toby"

Also, an Ex-Gay "treatment center" in England recently admitted that they have had a ZERO success rate, and that their program just doesnt work, and they have divorced themselves from the "Exodus" apperatus, and insterad have done an about-face and started helping Gay christians find acceptance and reconcile their sexuality AND their religious belifs. In other words, they are saying "Its OK to be Gay AND a christian, and our previous program did more harm then good".

NONE of these ex-gay programs have had any sort of success rate, and while they make all kinds of claims, there is never any real follow-up on their clients, and certainly nothing scientific or clinicly valid in determining what their clients do 6 weeks, 6 months or a year or two after treatment.

Its a politicized cash-cow for people like Smid.
I want to know if any insurance companies are shelling out cash for this "treatment".

At the very least, these centers should provide full-disclosure to the clients and their parents, and discuss, like ANY doctor or health proffessional alternative treatments and what the side-effect are...as well as their (lack of) success rate.

You cant even buy a can of peas without labels desacibing what is actually in the can, and certainly not even over the counter medicines without a 500 word essay about its effect, contents and side effects.
So why should a "treatment center" Like LIAr be any different?

Cheers!
chrometuna

Originally posted by BadMojo
Homosexuality is immoral...nuff said.

You're a moron, BadMojo.

nuff said.

[edit on 20-8-2005 by Wakizashi]

[edit on 20-8-2005 by Wakizashi]