It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Gitmo: 5 Star Resort

page: 8
0
<< 5  6  7    9  10 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 02:47 PM
link   
They are not POW's......

Allow me to provide some concise and unbiased review of the current situation. I suggest everyone read this before commenting:

U.S. Treatment of Prisoners in Iraq: Selected Legal Issues




posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 03:03 PM
link   
.
WashingtonPost: US Behind Secret Transfer of Terror Suspects

Since Sept. 11, the U.S. government has secretly transported dozens of people suspected of links to terrorists to countries other than the United States, bypassing extradition procedures and legal formalities, according to Western diplomats and intelligence sources. The suspects have been taken to countries, including Egypt and Jordan, whose intelligence services have close ties to the CIA and where they can be subjected to interrogation tactics -- including torture and threats to families -- that are illegal in the United States, the sources said. In some cases, U.S. intelligence agents remain closely involved in the interrogation, the sources said.


For the record to intimidate terror suspects the US soldiers or others dressed as Egyptian secret police, because they are so feared in the Middle East that the threat of them alone will get many people to break.

Death Sentence without a trial

Also in 1998, CIA officers working with Albanian police seized five members of Egyptian Islamic Jihad who were allegedly planning to bomb the U.S. Embassy in Tirana, Albania's capital.
After three days of interrogation, the five men were flown to Egypt aboard a plane that was chartered by the CIA; two were put to death.


The CIA grabs people from foreign governments with no procedures at all,

"The CIA asked us to find this guy and hand him over," the senior Indonesian official said. "We did what they wanted."


What is really the worst about these kind of actions is the US's implicit aproval of brutal torture and murder by these Middle East police state, legitimizing both these police states and their barbaric methods.

Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas.
.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 03:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by CaptainJailew
I think that is a blanket statement regarding the intentions of "liberals" or people attacking Guantanamo.


I didn't say a thing about liberals, nor did I intend to say anything catagorically about opponents of the war or critics of the prisons. I am simply asserting that I find it interesting that the sudden outrage over our POW camps is coming from a certain group of people in the media who have been clearly growing impatient with the slow progress of their campaign against the war. These people weren't outraged when we used the exact same rules under Clinton for handling those we captured in Kosovo and Somalia, so it stands to reason that this fresh outrage is actually a fresh tactic in their opposition to the war, rather than the product of a fresh abuse (because as I mentioned, there is nothing new about the tactics they are so upset about suddenly).


I personally think it is wrong to treat human beings who haven't been accused of a crime like criminals.


That's just it. They aren't criminals and they aren't being treated like criminals. Criminals can only be held so long before they must be charged or released. Criminals get civilian trials.
These people are enemy guerilla soldiers- POWs if you will, although in the technical sense they do not fall under the Geneva convention because they are neither a nationalized nor uniformed force, nor do they all bear their arms openly as is required. POWs can be held until the war is over, and they get a review board, like the tribunals they go before annually at Gitmo.

We are generally playing by the rules. The most vehement outrage over these so-called prison scandals is coming from politically biased news sources who have been ACHING for such a scandal, even to the point that there have been failed attempts to FAKE scandals. People who are genuinely concerned about human rights tend to be at least a little less vehement on this issue, because although we may not be in keeping with every letter of the law, we are in fact doing our best to abide by the spirit of the law, more so than we do even in our highschools and in the training of our own military, as I have pointed out.

[quoteThis is not about the Iraq war to me, it is about treating humans as humans should be treated, torture them once convicted, kill them, whatever. As you said, it is war, but lets figure out who the enemy is first.

We're doing that. That's what the tribunals are for. We have released people. A few of the people we released ended up right back on the battlefield and were captured again.

If anything we are being too lenient down there. I know a girl with a bit of a meanstreak- if we really wanted to win this war we'd send her down there in tight leather with a few of her favorite toys and every real muslim in that camp would spill his guts in 30 seconds for fear of damnation, and the rest of them would spill their guts 30 minutes later for fear of her. She's a lot better looking than Lindie England too- not that I consider that a great accomplishment.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 09:43 AM
link   
FlyersFan:

The Security Council was bought
off with billions stolen by Saddam from the Iraqi people.


Um, I'm not even going to bother refuting ANY of your wild claims, since you appear to be paranoid or delusional or something.

Unless you care to back up this wildly hilarious claim.

ferretman:

no matter what faulty intelligence there was, or no UN approval......Saddam violated his cease-fire agreement from the 1990-1991 Gulf War. That gives the US the right of overthrowing Saddam, invasion, and freeing 26 million people from a tyrant. How did Saddam violate the cease-fire agreement? Even though it has been repeated time and time and time and time again......it will be repeated again....briefly.......violation of 17 UN resolutions, constant attacks on US and British air planes patrolling the no-fly zones, illegal oil sales, being uncooperative with UN weapons inspections....etc.........


Yeah, how DARE the Iraqis shoot at planes that are patrolling and bombing their sovereign territory, huh? There were bombing runs almost EVERY DAY
, and killed THOUSANDS of Iraqis.

www.ccmep.org...


"If you want to be very cynical then you say what has in fact resulted from these zones is death and destruction," says Hans von Sponeck, the coordinator of the UN Humanitarian Program in Iraq from 1998-2000. "On average, during the time I was in Iraq, there were bombing incidents every 3 days. The casualties were in the very areas that they allegedly established to protect people. How, at a 10,000-meter height, can you protect a Shi'ite population? That is a fantasy. The cruel reality is that people are dying as a result of these no-fly zones."

In 1999, von Sponeck began compiling what he called "Air Strike Reports" on the US and British attacks. He submitted these every three months to the Security Council and Secretary General Kofi Annan. He says that in 1999 alone, there were 132 bombings that caused civilian "casualties."

"The number of people killed were 120, the number of people hurt, 442," von Sponeck said. "That's only in the year 1999."


As for violation of UN resolutions, um, Israel has violated over 93 Resolutions, I don't see any bombing runs or regime change going on there. Ditto for Libya, Syria, China and North Korea.

skippy:

"Every single detainee currently being held at Guantanamo Bay has received a hearing before a military tribunal. Every one.


Good point. However, these secret military tribunals have been ruled ILLEGAL by federal judges. Who cares what FrontpageMag's resident looney has to say about them.

www.washingtonpost.com...


U.S. District Judge Joyce Hens Green said that the approximately 550 men held as "enemy combatants" are entitled to the advice of lawyers and to confront the evidence against them in those proceedings. But, she found, the Defense Department has largely denied them these "most basic fundamental rights" during the reviews conducted at Guantanamo Bay, in the name of protecting the United States from terrorism.



TheVagabond:

The weather at Gitmo right now is a heck of a lot better than the weather where I grew up (Palm Springs). The food sounds a hell of a lot better than anything I got in school or in the USMC. The respect for religious freedom is INFINITELY greater than anything I saw in school.


Were you shackled when you went out for recess? Did they interrogate you? Were you kept away from your family and friends and had absolutley no outside contact with anyone other than prison guards for over 3 years? Were you kept in a cage outdoors, like a dog, exposed to the elements for 23 hours a day? Were you restricted from talking to anyone on the outside? Were you allowed to use the bathroom under the watchful eye of a foreign soldier who had a rifle trained on you?

You're not serious, right?


These people are enemy guerilla soldiers- POWs if you will, although in the technical sense they do not fall under the Geneva convention because they are neither a nationalized nor uniformed force, nor do they all bear their arms openly as is required.


POWs! Enemy guerrila soldiers defending their COUNTRY, their HOMES, their FAMILIES! Do they all watch CNN and read up on all the latest political news coming out of the White House? No, a lot of them hear that the Americans are coming and they're gonna kill us all so grab a rifle and defend yourself. Do you think the media they get is reasonable? Didn't they see their country bombed and starved for 12 years by their so-called "liberators"? You might have forgotten all this, but they still remember burying the 500,000 children that the sanctions killed.

These are not all people who are 100% up to speed on the intricacies of international law. They see soldiers shooting their countrymen, they hear the summons to fight, and they do.

What would you do in their situation? Lay down your arms and surrender to your invaders?


If anything we are being too lenient down there.


Wow, color me surprised that you would demonstrate such a lack of compassion and understanding.

For every person in Gitmo, there are 10,000 people worldwide that this is adding fuel to their anti-American fire.

Better start building more prisons, America. Soon you'll need to be packing them with your own "dissenters".


jako



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 10:00 AM
link   

Originally posted by Jakomo
As for violation of UN resolutions, um, Israel has violated over 93 Resolutions, I don't see any bombing runs or regime change going on there.


O yes! Here we go again. When all else fails in the Arab world. When everything goes to Hell in a hand-basket. You can always blame Israel.

"O my gosh! Did you hear about the Tsunami? I think the Israelis caused it."
"The Israelis are occupying the Golan Heights". (Cause you invaded them silly)
"The US is attacking Iraq. Let's shoot SCUDs at Israel"
"We have more wealth underground than the rest of the world combined....but Israel is uhm..doing something to make us whine."

Excuse me while I hurl.
As far as I know, Israel doesn't have anything to do with GITMO and they don't occupy any land in Cuba. Can we discuss the faults of an Arab country for once without involving bystanders? Somehow I doubt it.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 10:36 AM
link   
dbates:

You can always blame Israel.


Hey, feel free to explain to me how me saying that Israel has violated 93 Resolutions and gotten away scotfree is somehow BLAMING Israel for something.

I'm merely pointing out that the fact that Saddam violated 17 UN resolutions is a laughable reason to justify invasion when Israel violates more than 90. Turkey has violated a lot too, they are not on the invasion block as far as I know.


As far as I know, Israel doesn't have anything to do with GITMO and they don't occupy any land in Cuba.


Again, I never implied that it did. Try reading what I write instead of jumping off to wild conclusions.

jako



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 10:56 AM
link   
Like I said, it's a crutch to help minimize the Arab world's responsibility. If only this worked in the real world. That way when you are accused of robbing a bank you can just point to other people you believe are guilty of more severe crimes. As if that makes you less guilty.

I don't buy the bit about these guys in GITMO simply being poor farmers trying to defend their home land. Last time I check the World Trade Center wasn't in Afghanistan when it was attacked. Something else to think about. Why is the government spending so much money housing these guys in Cuba? They have to know something or we would just turn them loose and shoot them the next time we ran into them. Bullets are a cheap one-time expense.

I don't think that anyone here really thinks that GITMO is a place they would want to stay. It's just that in comparison to other prisons, they bend way over backward to cater to their wants and needs. The whole scenario is a good-cop bad-cop scene. They feed them what they want and give them copies of the Koran. "We're here to help you". Then the bad cops show up and drag you out of your cell and put you into a cold room with rock music blaring all night..."We're the bad cops." Physiological warfare at it's finest.

Again why all the effort to carry on this dog and pony show? Intelligence gathering. We want to know what they know.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 12:17 PM
link   
I love how everyone seems to think they know what goes in Gitmo, that it's glazed chicken and beach volleyball.

NOBODY is allowed there. The Red Cross had to promise not to divulge anything until they were allowed to go. Ditto for Amnesty International.

In your experience, if the government is hiding something from the public, is it usually good news?

If a military prison is closed to the ANY public scrutiny (and the UN is forbidden from visiting), would you think they are hiding it because:

a) fantastic things are going on there and they don't want to share

or

b) things that are best left hidden are happening there



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 12:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jakomo

I love how everyone seems to think they know what goes in Gitmo, that it's glazed chicken and beach volleyball.




That’s funny. You accuse everybody of speculating, and then try to explain yourself using speculation.

LOL



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 12:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jakomo
FlyersFan:

The Security Council was bought
off with billions stolen by Saddam from the Iraqi people.

I'm not even going to bother refuting ANY of your wild claims, since you appear to be paranoid or delusional or something.

You can't refute them because it's true ... and they aren't MY claims.
Where have you been? Planet Jakamo? Not much oxygen there eh?
Hello? Saddam stole billions from the Iraqis, bought his palaces and
sent $$$ to his accounts in Syria etc. etc. AND he paid off the UN Security
Council members with the stolen money. Heard of the OIL FOR FOOD
scam? So no Jakamo, I'm not paranoid or delusional .. but YOU are sorely
lacking in knowledge of current affairs and events.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 12:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jakomo
NOBODY is allowed there.

The UN didn't want to go.
www.atsnn.com...

Ditto for Amnesty International.

Oh gawd .. someone tell me that he didn't
just complain because that radical left wing anti-
American group Amnesty International isn't visiting
GITMO.
yeah, they are a ticket. Ignoring
N.Korea, ignoring Saddam murdering hundreds of
thousands, ignoring everyone EXCEPT America
and calling for countries to arrest Bush if he travels
to their countries.

oh that would be FUNNY! That would make an
excellent movie .. made just like the Team America
southpark movie.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 01:22 PM
link   
Let's not forget the death they tried to cover-up at Abu Gharib. They tried to pack Manadel al-Jamadi in ice after they killed him. Hoping to hide the fact they killed him at Abu Gharib.

How many more deaths at Gitmo are being covered up, like at Abu Gharib?



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 01:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by curme
Let's not forget the death they tried to cover-up at Abu Gharib....How many more deaths at Gitmo are being covered up, like at Abu Gharib?


Um, what does Abu Gharib have to do with Gitmo? And what you say is 100% speculation and conjecture on your part substantiated by nothing.

[edit on 24-6-2005 by skippytjc]



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 01:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by skippytjc

Originally posted by curme
Let's not forget the death they tried to cover-up at Abu Gharib....How many more deaths at Gitmo are being covered up, like at Abu Gharib?


Um, what does Abu Gharib have to do with Gitmo? And what you say is 100% speculation and conjecture on your part substantiated by nothing.

[edit on 24-6-2005 by skippytjc]


Conjecture? I don't know if you keep up with current events, but the US investigated the incident. They cleared the Navy SEALS, blaming the death on the CIA ( Google News). The suspect was one of the 'ghost' prisoners. There, but not officially. If this can happen in one US prison camp, why not another? That is why we need transparency, oversight, and accountability at Gitmo. To ensure we aren't murdering people.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 02:02 PM
link   
Curme, the facts that you state in your last post seemed to indicate that all of those things are already in place. Otherwise how would you even know about who was abused, who did the abusing, and who was blamed?

It seems transparent to me. If it wasn't, we would be talking about something else. The fact that these things are coming into the light, investigations are being persued, and people are being punished seems to indicate to me that we are lights years ahead of the barbarians we are fighting............despite our shortcomings.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 02:24 PM
link   
Curne, the point I am making is that what happened in Abu happened in Abu. Your ASSUMPTION that it must also be happening at Gitmo shows your hate for America. Most people who arent blinded by hate, would assume it was an isolated incident, but people driven by hate and agendas want to believe that ALL jails and detention centers must be the same in America.

You see, in the USA you are innocent until proven guilty. And yes, Abu was a mess and people were punished for it. But Gitmo is just a place with some whiny criminals who are tought to claim abuse. There is no proof of torture there. Until its time to say they have done something, and prove it in court, they are clean as a whistle as far as I am concerned.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 03:13 PM
link   
Cheney chines in:

prisoners well treated, well fed and 'living in the tropics'...


Like a vacation spot.

The only thing negative I will say about Gitmo is that its the best propaganda machine the terrorists have to rally support. Its a tool for them, nothing more.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 03:24 PM
link   

radical left wing anti-American group Amnesty International


LOL man sometimes I love this place.

Whenever any organization is critical of the US' crimes (yes, crimes), they get branded as ANTI-American.

If the POPE chimed in about something critical of US policy, he would be branded as anti-American!

HAHA!



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 03:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jakomo


Whenever any organization is critical of the US' crimes (yes, crimes), they get branded as ANTI-American.



Which crimes? Source? Can you quote a criminal report or any court proceedings that outline the crimes? Thanks Jako



posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 08:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by Jakomo
Whenever any organization is critical of the US' crimes
(yes, crimes), they get branded as ANTI-American.


Actually, the real crime here is that Amnesty International
continues to call itself a human rights organization and that
it continues to accept donations under the false heading of such.

www.nationalreview.com...

www.frontpagemag.com...

www.thelawjournal.co.uk...

www.command-post.org...

www.rogerlsimon.com...

www.cabarfeidh.com...

www.myopiczeal.blogsome.com...

www.boortz.com...

Considering all of the above that I have posted (there are MANY more
facts out there about Amnesty International's dark intentions) OF COURSE
they wouldn't be invited to GITMO. That would be insane. Amnesty
International USED to be a wonderful organization that we supported
financially ... not any more.



[edit on 6/25/2005 by FlyersFan]




top topics



 
0
<< 5  6  7    9  10 >>

log in

join