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Ordo Templii Orientis: Who the heck are these guys??

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posted on Jun, 30 2005 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by Cug
Oh thanks for clearing things up HeirX



Really no problem at all. My pleasure.


TG- sounds like you've done a lot of personal study. It reminds me of what drew me to the OTO in the first place. I too studied book after book and after a while I felt that I was just swimming in information without the least idea of what to do. At some point we have to take all the thoughts and put them into action. This is when I warmed to the idea of joining a (dare I say it) group. I figured after a while that all paths lead to Rome so I just needed to pick one. Lucky for me the OTO resonated and away I went.

Do you have a daily personal practice? If so, what is it?




posted on Jun, 30 2005 @ 02:06 PM
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TgSoe - Psychedelic Mushrooms are pretty Powerful! I would not recommend them unless you are sure that you are ready for a Wild Ride! It is an extremely Consciousness Expanding Trip with Vivid Visual & Auditory Hallucinations (DEF stronger than '___' if you ask me) - you definitely need to be in an Environment that you are Comfortable in when you do them!

Maybe we are getting off topic here - after all this thread is not about Crowley & Drugs - it is about the
Ordo Templii Orientis:

www.meta-religion.com...


[edit on 30-6-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 30-6-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]


Cug

posted on Jun, 30 2005 @ 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by TgSoe

Well I'm not sure I understand the Tarot yet but I do know the hebrew alphabet by heart . I read that the hebrew alphabet is the names of gods. Eliphas Levi said if a man were in prison with nothing more than the Tarot and new how to use it in a short time he could speak on all subjects knowledgeably.


That is very true, as the old saying goes a picture is worth a thousand words. Now that I think about it you could say the same about some of Crowley’s works like Knox om pax. What Crowley is doing is creating a picture with words (he was a poet after all) it is up to you to interpret the picture he created.


I found a Killer site a while back and they have so much of this stuff there for free the author even tells how to make mushrooms. Which I have never tryed any aren't they illegal?


Personally I don’t care for mind altering substances, so I don’t have a comment about the mushroom thing.

But I do like killer sites.
I don’t know if you ran across these but here are a few more.

www.hermetic.com... They have almost all of the important Crowley works here along with several other great sections like The Invisible Basilica of Sabazius (Sabazius is the head of the US OTO), The Magick and Mysticism of Bill Heidrick (Mr Heidrick is the former Treasuer of the OTO), The Exposed Adytum of Dionysos Thriambos has some great stuff on the Gnostic Mass.

www.hermetics.org... has a ton of books online. The eBooks section is great.

If you want to buy some great books, pretty much everything from Lon Milo DuQuette is a must buy IMHO.

Here is a link to a site that has a mp3 of an interview he did on coast to coast am (art bell) 50mb but it’s pretty interesting (even if Barbara Simpson did the interview)


Cug

posted on Jun, 30 2005 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by Toelint

Actually, I've heard more than one Rabbi refer to Kaballah as "Fast Food" for the soul. A lot of ritual but little substance. I suppose the one thing that turns me off about Kaballah is the celebrity speakers who have jumped on the Religious Wagon.

Gotta love that Madonna. Yeah, THAT'S who I want telling me how to catch the "A" train to Heaven!



He would be referring to the new age Kaballah Center people. I'd say fast food for the soul is a pretty good description of them.

I might as well note that a traditional rabbi would also look down on the form of Qabalah used in the various Hermetic groups as it’s not the same as the traditional teachings.



posted on Jun, 30 2005 @ 04:59 PM
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Sorry guys, I have to point out #16 of the T&C:

16.) Discussion of illegal activities such as drug use, drug paraphernalia, hacking, etc. are strictly forbidden



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 05:06 AM
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Originally posted by HeirX

Originally posted by Cug
Oh thanks for clearing things up HeirX



Really no problem at all. My pleasure.


TG- sounds like you've done a lot of personal study. It reminds me of what drew me to the OTO in the first place. I too studied book after book and after a while I felt that I was just swimming in information without the least idea of what to do. At some point we have to take all the thoughts and put them into action. This is when I warmed to the idea of joining a (dare I say it) group. I figured after a while that all paths lead to Rome so I just needed to pick one. Lucky for me the OTO resonated and away I went.

Do you have a daily personal practice? If so, what is it?



Yeah I read every spare minute I get book after book after book. The OTO appeals to me but I'm just not certain yet. Its not to far to drive to Atlanta from my house so theres definitely one close by. I'm probably 30 minutes away. Far as daily practice goes I was doing a lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram every day for a while and I found so many different variations of it I decided the one I was doing probably wasn't a valid one. Perhaps several work who knows?



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 05:15 AM
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Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente


Maybe we are getting off topic here - after all this thread is not about Crowley & Drugs - it is about the
Ordo Templii Orientis:

www.meta-religion.com...


I noticed a lot of OTO groups meet in the local Scottish rite building. Is the OTO really equivalent to the Scottish Rite?



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 05:19 AM
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Originally posted by Cug
I do like killer sites.
I don’t know if you ran across these but here are a few more.

www.hermetic.com... They have almost all of the important Crowley works here along with several other great sections like The Invisible Basilica of Sabazius (Sabazius is the head of the US OTO), The Magick and Mysticism of Bill Heidrick (Mr Heidrick is the former Treasuer of the OTO), The Exposed Adytum of Dionysos Thriambos has some great stuff on the Gnostic Mass.

www.hermetics.org... has a ton of books online. The eBooks section is great.

If you want to buy some great books, pretty much everything from Lon Milo DuQuette is a must buy IMHO.

Here is a link to a site that has a mp3 of an interview he did on coast to coast am (art bell) 50mb but it’s pretty interesting (even if Barbara Simpson did the interview)



Thanks for all those great links CUG actually I had not found those.


Cug

posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by TgSoe
I noticed a lot of OTO groups meet in the local Scottish rite building. Is the OTO really equivalent to the Scottish Rite?


No connection whatsoever. Quite a few Masonic halls will rent their space out.

Probably the most common meeting place for local O.T.O. bodies is in someone’s home. Reading the various O.T.O. lists online there seems to be a push starting to start supporting the local bodies more so they can afford to rent some 24/7 spaces to call their own.

This version of the LBRP will work fine. www.asiya.org...

[edit on 7/1/2005 by Cug]



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by TgSoe
Yeah I read every spare minute I get book after book after book. The OTO appeals to me but I'm just not certain yet. Its not to far to drive to Atlanta from my house so theres definitely one close by. I'm probably 30 minutes away. Far as daily practice goes I was doing a lesser banishing ritual of the pentagram every day for a while and I found so many different variations of it I decided the one I was doing probably wasn't a valid one. Perhaps several work who knows?


Well you sound like a Thelemite to me. This is a curse that befalls so many in the OTO. Viewed from the Tree of Life, all the reading reading reading is an exercise in Hod. Not to knock Hod, we must become aware in every sphere but Hod is not a resting place. The non-adept aspires to Tiphereth, the place of balance. One way to balance all this intellectualizing in Hod is to ACT. There is Science and there is Art.

Valid LBRP? That's Golden Dawn hogwash. The LBRP becomes 'valid' when it becomes truly your own and it becomes truly your own through diligent practice. The descriptive Kraig version Cug sent you is fine. Here is a routine that I suggest to new members in the OTO that are trying to put a daily practice together. Take my word for it, if you do this for six months, you will have a whole new vision and you'll get your ass out of those books.

LBRP- three times daily
Resh- at each quarter 4 times daily
Middle Pillar- at least once daily
Practice of Will at each meal
Relaxation exercises/and or Meditation
Daily Journal Entry

All Best....


Cug

posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by HeirX

LBRP- three times daily
Resh- at each quarter 4 times daily
Middle Pillar- at least once daily
Practice of Will at each meal
Relaxation exercises/and or Meditation
Daily Journal Entry


Good point, there comes a time to stop reading and start doing. The only thing I'd add is don't do the Middle Pillar before bedtime. It acts just like a few cups of coffee to me. Oh and I might throw in some basic yoga into the mix.



posted on Jul, 3 2005 @ 06:11 PM
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Originally posted by Cug


This version of the LBRP will work fine. www.asiya.org...

[edit on 7/1/2005 by Cug]



That one is a bit more indepth than the one I was using though it resembles it quite a bit. I'll give it a whirl. I like vibrating those names out man, I have sort of a low voice.



posted on Jul, 3 2005 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by HeirX
The descriptive Kraig version Cug sent you is fine. Here is a routine that I suggest to new members in the OTO that are trying to put a daily practice together. Take my word for it, if you do this for six months, you will have a whole new vision and you'll get your ass out of those books.

LBRP- three times daily
Resh- at each quarter 4 times daily
Middle Pillar- at least once daily
Practice of Will at each meal
Relaxation exercises/and or Meditation
Daily Journal Entry

All Best....



I would like to be able to do those rituals that many times a day but it would be a bit difficult with my job. Most of the time I'm buisier than a cat covereng up ****. LOL

Should I ever evoke an entity or something who can help me with this the first thing I need is more time, same money but more time. Or more money and time that would even be better.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 12:08 AM
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O.T.O and Golden Dawn and A.:.A.:.
From my understanding of these confused but related groups the O.T.O was the origional bunch of weirdos in 19th century Germany, a copy of whose various rituals was found in some masonic associated material by Mc Gregor Mathers in England. Somewhere on the material a name and address was found to which the English wannabe weirdos wrote and received authority to open a "temple" along similar lines. This subsequently became the Golden Dawn of which Al Crowley was a member at the begining of his "career". He fell out out with Mc Gregor Mathers and subsequently went do very much the same thing, using very much the same sort of rituals but apparently bonking more men and women than his previous pals had been willing to. He formed the A.:.A.:. or Argentum Astra and claimed to have higher authority than his former pals having recieved guidance from the "Secret Chiefs" of the "inner order", who always remain unknown and handily enough invisible. Such was the success of his new temple of Thelema (Meaning in Greek "will") that the Italian government expelled him and his male and female hareem from their house in Sicily. The A.:.A.:. claim that spme kind of higher inteligence dictated The Book of the Law to Crowley whilst he was on holiday in Egypt and that this book contains the new law for the new age basicaly saying that Christianity is an Osiris based religion in that Osiris like Christ dies and is then re-born and that the "new age" is a Horus age in Egyptian terms - Horus being the son of Osoris who revenges himself on his fathers murderers. It is th A.:.A.:. who eat the cakes of light and the recipe can be found in the book of the law - blood and other similar gory bits of nonesense. Crowley claimed to have made some of these cakes and had some unknown species of beetle come from them. The fact that most of the people involved in all these bits of mumbojumbo were ripped off by Crowley to feed his drug addiction does not seem to anybody to have dimmed his fame. The fact that he himself admits that most of his rituals were performed to aquire money is also overlooked. He in fact died a penniless heroin addict, so whatever he was doing it certainly didn't have the effect he desired. The only one of the lot who makes any sense to my mind is Israel Regardie who was also a member of the Golden Dawn and went on to practice a form Jungian psychotherapy. He argues that in a Jungian sense all this "magic" is essentialy identification with Jungian "archetypal forms" and as such when Crowley claims to have contact with a higher intelligence this is in fact just another facet of his psyche. In other words he was a schizo druggie. Scared? Don't be - he's dead and anybody who claims to follow him is basicaly just after making money out of his (in)famy or will doubtless end the way Crowley himself did.

Just as a post script I lived in the North of Scotland for several years and met and got to know the owner of Crowley - and Jimmy Pages - old house (Boleskine) where Crowley is said to have attempted the Sacred Magic of Abramelin. They reported that it was a very comfortable home and that nothing bizarre had ever happened during their time their, they won't alow many people there simply because most of the people who wished to visit were nutters... There's nowt stranger than the truth...


Cug

posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 04:04 PM
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Whew a bunch of misplaced facts with a few derogatory comments thrown in to show good taste.


Originally posted by Daeron
O.T.O and Golden Dawn and A.:.A.:.
From my understanding of these confused but related groups the O.T.O was the origional bunch of weirdos in 19th century Germany, a copy of whose various rituals was found in some masonic associated material by Mc Gregor Mathers in England.


The Golden Dawn did not get the rituals from the O.T.O. In fact the O.T.O. proper didn’t get going until after the Golden Dawn split up.



Such was the success of his new temple of Thelema (Meaning in Greek "will") that the Italian government expelled him and his male and female hareem from their house in Sicily.


Actually they only threw out Crowley, mostly based on news reports in a tabloid papers that would be akin to our modern day “Weekly World News” This is also where the term “The wickedest man in the world” came from.


It is th A.:.A.:. who eat the cakes of light and the recipe can be found in the book of the law - blood and other similar gory bits of nonesense.


The O.T.O. also. See the text of the Gnostic mass posted in this thread.


Crowley claimed to have made some of these cakes and had some unknown species of beetle come from them.


They do draw beetles. I didn’t get what Crowley found, but they were beetles.


The fact that he himself admits that most of his rituals were performed to aquire money is also overlooked.


That comes from the introduction of the book “Magical diaries of Aleister Crowley, Tunisia 1923” during this time his records show he preformed magical acts for Money 48 times out of 309. While money is number one of the list, it is in no way the majority of his work at the time.


He in fact died a penniless heroin addict, so whatever he was doing it certainly didn't have the effect he desired.


I have always wondered about people’s reaction to penniless? Does not having good money sense make one a bad person? Does having your way to make a living removed make you bad? Oh and the heroin was a prescribed drug… My dad was on HEAVY doses of morphine when he died, was my daddy bad?


The only one of the lot who makes any sense to my mind is Israel Regardie who was also a member of the Golden Dawn and went on to practice a form Jungian psychotherapy. He argues that in a Jungian sense all this "magic" is essentialy identification with Jungian "archetypal forms" and as such when Crowley claims to have contact with a higher intelligence this is in fact just another facet of his psyche. In other words he was a schizo druggie.


You need to read more Crowley.. Regardie was just using different words for the same things. And he said the Jungian therapy was a good addition to the practice of Magick, not a replacement.


Scared? Don't be - he's dead and anybody who claims to follow him is basicaly just after making money out of his (in)famy or will doubtless end the way Crowley himself did.


DUDE! Where’s my money?! I’m certainly a follower of his teachings.


Just as a post script I lived in the North of Scotland for several years and met and got to know the owner of Crowley - and Jimmy Pages - old house (Boleskine) where Crowley is said to have attempted the Sacred Magic of Abramelin. They reported that it was a very comfortable home and that nothing bizarre had ever happened during their time their, they won't alow many people there simply because most of the people who wished to visit were nutters... There's nowt stranger than the truth...


Well they did operate it as a bed and breakfast for some time. Anyway the “nutters” tend to be people fascinated with the “evil Crowley” not true followers of Thelema.


[edit on 7/5/2005 by Cug]


Cug

posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by TgSoe

I would like to be able to do those rituals that many times a day but it would be a bit difficult with my job. Most of the time I'm buisier than a cat covereng up ****. LOL

Should I ever evoke an entity or something who can help me with this the first thing I need is more time, same money but more time. Or more money and time that would even be better.


oops Sorry I missed your post. Anyway it really dosnt take that much time to do everything. 30-45 min spread out during the day.



posted on Jul, 5 2005 @ 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by TgSoe

I would like to be able to do those rituals that many times a day but it would be a bit difficult with my job. Most of the time I'm buisier than a cat covereng up ****. LOL

Should I ever evoke an entity or something who can help me with this the first thing I need is more time, same money but more time. Or more money and time that would even be better.


oops Sorry I missed your post. Anyway it really dosnt take that much time to do everything. 30-45 min spread out during the day.




Yeah the one ritual you do at each quarter-" Resh"- is not that long its basically just a paragraph for each quarter. I have all the pages printed out and am going to work on them. It looks like the Middle Pillar ritual will take the longest. Its suggested that you do a LBRP and LBRH before doing it so I could see where it could get lenthy. I will enjoy doing all that vibrating though I have sort of a deep resonating voice.


Did Crowley really write down every single ritual he ever did? I'd like to get my hands on that.


Cug

posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by TgSoe

Did Crowley really write down every single ritual he ever did? I'd like to get my hands on that.


Yep, It’s a standard practice for Ceremonial Magick. Note it is on HeirX’s list of daily practice.

As far as getting your hand on Crowley’s, not much has been published other than the book I mentioned, and it is not that detailed, things like Did X with XYZ for XXXX.

Other shorter examples of magical workings would be John St John, The Paris working, And The Vision and the Voice. You can find those here www.hermetic.com...



posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by TgSoe

Did Crowley really write down every single ritual he ever did? I'd like to get my hands on that.


Yep, It’s a standard practice for Ceremonial Magick. Note it is on HeirX’s list of daily practice.

As far as getting your hand on Crowley’s, not much has been published other than the book I mentioned, and it is not that detailed, things like Did X with XYZ for XXXX.

Other shorter examples of magical workings would be John St John, The Paris working, And The Vision and the Voice. You can find those here www.hermetic.com...





There was one intersting thing said in Konx Om Pax and that was that Aleister Crowley wrote 32 volumes in his lifetime. I think that is Phenomenal. He doesn't strike me as the looser type. If he could have lived longer he would probably be rich today off his writings.


dh

posted on Jul, 6 2005 @ 06:51 PM
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Of interest is Crowley's input into the Germanen order and his close relation with Winston Churchill, with whom he was soundalike
So spiritual order into both sides just as there was financial




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