Ordo Templii Orientis: Who the heck are these guys??

LOL Cug, I could AMAZE you with all the stuff I DON'T know!

As for the quote...well...I found it at one of the O.T.O. websites.

Originally posted by HeirX

Originally posted by TgSoe

Originally posted by HeirX
Is the matter particular to the Baptist and Evangelist or is there something in the name John itself? Is there a relation to Jah? Jonah? ....and the many other Johns? Have you read Burn's version of John Barleycorn?

I have not read it but would like to,

TG---

Here goes:

John Barleycorn
Robert Burns

There was three kings into the east...
Three kings both great and high,
And they hae sworn a solemn oath
John Barleycorn should die.

Thats quite an interesting peice there Heirx. Harvest does come once a year doesn't it? I think that puts it in perspective wrather nicely.

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente

Ioannis - That is IT Cug! Thanx! Do you have any insight on the Occult connection/association/meaning to this name that you would like so share with us ATS heads? I find this stuff quite Fascinating!

Nope, all I have is some stuff that I felt relates to myself.

Originally posted by Toelint
LOL Cug, I could AMAZE you with all the stuff I DON'T know!

As for the quote...well...I found it at one of the O.T.O. websites.

Ahhh OK, what got me is that Liber Cordis Cincti Serpente is not one of the things someone who doesn’t know about Thelema or the O.T.O. would normally run across.

Are there any more O.T.O./Thelema/Crowley questions out there? I want to see if we can get a non-mason thread with a ton of posts.

Originally posted by Cug

Are there any more O.T.O./Thelema/Crowley questions out there? I want to see if we can get a non-mason thread with a ton of posts.

I read somewhere that Kings version of the Secret Rituals of the OTO were a piece of crap. I have read them and found them pretty interesting but was wondering if they are pretty much on target or not ??


I also read, can't remember where that all the stuff that is freely given over the internet will not be the real rituals used in initiation of a true secret society. It may resemble it but thats all. And why not? If they gave you everything over the web nobody would join.

Originally posted by TgSoe

I read somewhere that Kings version of the Secret Rituals of the OTO were a piece of crap. I have read them and found them pretty interesting but was wondering if they are pretty much on target or not ??

As I’m not yet a member I can’t be positive. But from what I have read the book is basically correct, but it does have errors. But for the most part these errors are small, a missing sentence or paragraph, editing errors, transcription errors that type of thing.

I also read, can't remember where that all the stuff that is freely given over the internet will not be the real rituals used in initiation of a true secret society. It may resemble it but thats all. And why not? If they gave you everything over the web nobody would join.

The O.T.O.’s initiation rituals are not giving out freely on the Internet. When they do get posted online the owners of the servers get a copyright letter demanding that they be removed. This does not happen as fast as say posting some scientology papers but it’s still pretty quick. In fact you can’t sell King’s book on eBay, poof and your listing is gone.

The rest of Crowley’s work you find on the net are more Thelemic than O.T.O. in nature. In fact O.T.O. members are the ones who typed up the books and put them online (well most were typed up in the old BBS days pre internet).

Originally posted by Cug
As I’m not yet a member I can’t be positive. But from what I have read the book is basically correct, but it does have errors. But for the most part these errors are small, a missing sentence or paragraph, editing errors, transcription errors that type of thing.

Here is an interesting read on Kings book....www.redflame93.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">
www.redflame93.com...

thats not the one I was refering to earlier but I'll see if I can find it.

Were you referring to Peter Koenig/Anthony Naylor's O.T.O. Rituals and Sex Magick?

That one is a cut and paste from Kings book with some corrections. Plus Koenig's err....... unique views of the O.T.O..

Originally posted by Cug
Were you referring to Peter Koenig/Anthony Naylor's O.T.O. Rituals and Sex Magick?

That one is a cut and paste from Kings book with some corrections. Plus Koenig's err....... unique views of the O.T.O..

Ah here it is, in that very article that I shared, a comit was made by Israel Regardie about the Secret Rituals of the OTO-

Regardie sent the following advice. "I finally got Francis King's book The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O. As far as I'm concerned it's a flop and I would say you have nothing to worry about on that score"




I personally enjoyed reading them but Israel had his own proffessional view on it I guess. I guess I'm just skeptical of everything you know I feel like there is a charlatan in every closet.

[edit on 27-6-2005 by TgSoe]

Weren't we talking about the OTO. I find the OTO fascinating. I enjoy reading Crowley but it is not my cup of tea. Why cannot someone just have that opinion and move on?

To start off with an argument that your system is wrong because it contradicts my system is ludicrous. We have to first assume that you beliefe system is right. This is the type of thinking that has created so much disharmony in our world, created fundamentalist extremist, and keeps us learning from each other.

Why would you join such a board as this to combat people about their believes?

Is Kabbalism really that dangerous? Someone told me the other day that its extremely dangerous and he wouldn't dare fool with it.

Just as dangerous as any other philosophical system I suppose. For a Christian I guess it could be “dangerous” because it has nothing to do with Christ.

Crowley was raised a Christian and had a disdain for it and became the greatest Satanist of all times so maybe its a good starting place LOL. I don't mind going to church man I don't agree with everything that goes on in there but I guess nobody can do everything just right to to please everybody. Some of your most talented musicians in the church are likely to be homosexual or atleast Bi-Sexual, and preachers just blast that lifestyle to hell. It just seems kind of counter- productive to me. If I didn't enjoy playing so much I would probably get mad and leave.

I got my book Konx Om Pax the other day and am wondering why it was on the list of things to read??? I know $93.00 right they got me another sucker. Well I'm half way through with it so maybe it'll get better soon. Thus far it has major sucked. I have come to realise if the devil is in it, its more interesting, mention Baphomet a few times and you can't put it down why is that? The Ole Devil sure knows how to tempt us doesn't he. I wonder if someone has figured out that the Devil sells like sex sells?

Quote: "Crowley was raised a Christian and had a disdain for it and became the greatest Satanist of all times."

Correction - Crowley was raised by a very *STRICT FUNDAMENTALIST* Christian - Literal Bible Interpreter, Sex is Evil - Family!

Through-out the Span of his Life, Crowley was at any given point an: Atheist, Buddhist, Pagan (throw Satanist/Luciferian & Thelemite in here), Scientist, Artist, Occultist, BRILLIANT Writer/Poet,
Master Ritual/Ceremonial Magician, Master Qabalist & some (such as myself) would even venture to say *TRUE CHRISTIAN* (of the Rare & Truly Spiritual, Philosophical & Intellectual Variety)!

TgSoe - you made a BAD Selection my friend! May I suggest that you start with the Crowley Classics -> "Magick in Theory & Practice" - "Magick Without Tears" - "Perdurabo: The Life of Aleister Crowley" (Biography) & if you were willing to spend that much Mula - "Confessions" (Auto-Biography)!


[edit on 29-6-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 29-6-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Chapter 38, THE BOOK OF LIES, Aleister Crowely

LAMBSKIN

Cowan, skidoo!
Tyle!
Swear to hele all.
This is the mystery.
Life!
Mind is the traitor.
Slay mind.
Let the corpse of mind lie unburied on the edge of
the Great Sea!
Death!
This is the mystery.
Tyle!
Cowen, skidoo!

Originally posted by TgSoe

I got my book Konx Om Pax the other day and am wondering why it was on the list of things to read??? I know $93.00 right they got me another sucker. Well I'm half way through with it so maybe it'll get better soon. Thus far it has major sucked.

No one said reading Crowley was easy.

You really need a good understanding of the basics of Ceremonial Magick before you can really get anything out of Crowley’s more symbolic works like Konx om pax.

Take The Wake World for example Lola represents the soul, and the story is about the ascent of the soul using imagery from the Tarot. To get anywhere close to understanding it you have to understand the Tarot, the tree of life, and have a copy of 777 handy.

Anyway your not out any money, I’ll bet you could ebay it for more than you paid.

Oh thanks for clearing things up HeirX

Originally posted by Cug
Just as dangerous as any other philosophical system I suppose. For a Christian I guess it could be “dangerous” because it has nothing to do with Christ.

Actually, I've heard more than one Rabbi refer to Kaballah as "Fast Food" for the soul. A lot of ritual but little substance. I suppose the one thing that turns me off about Kaballah is the celebrity speakers who have jumped on the Religious Wagon.

Gotta love that Madonna. Yeah, THAT'S who I want telling me how to catch the "A" train to Heaven!

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente

TgSoe - you made a BAD Selection my friend! May I suggest that you start with the Crowley Classics -> "Magick in Theory & Practice" - "Magick Without Tears" - "Perdurabo: The Life of Aleister Crowley" (Biography) & if you were willing to spend that much Mula - "Confessions" (Auto-Biography)!

Well I only got the book cause it was on the list. I have read Magick in Theory & Practice. I wish I had the book though all I have is a stack of paper that I copied. I used to take about ten pages a day to work with me and read if I got a minute. I haven't read confessions though but would liek to.

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by TgSoe

I got my book Konx Om Pax the other day and am wondering why it was on the list of things to read??? I know $93.00 right they got me another sucker. Well I'm half way through with it so maybe it'll get better soon. Thus far it has major sucked.

No one said reading Crowley was easy.

You really need a good understanding of the basics of Ceremonial Magick before you can really get anything out of Crowley’s more symbolic works like Konx om pax.

Take The Wake World for example Lola represents the soul, and the story is about the ascent of the soul using imagery from the Tarot. To get anywhere close to understanding it you have to understand the Tarot, the tree of life, and have a copy of 777 handy.

Anyway your not out any money, I’ll bet you could ebay it for more than you paid.

Oh thanks for clearing things up HeirX

Well I'm not sure I understand the Tarot yet but I do know the hebrew alphabet by heart . I read that the hebrew alphabet is the names of gods. Eliphas Levi said if a man were in prison with nothing more than the Tarot and new how to use it in a short time he could speak on all subjects knowledgeably.


I found a Killer site a while back and they have so much of this stuff there for free the author even tells how to make mushrooms. Which I have never tryed any aren't they illegal?

www.rahoorkhuit.net...

Originally posted by HeirX
Chapter 38, THE BOOK OF LIES, Aleister Crowely

LAMBSKIN

Cowan, skidoo!
Tyle!
Swear to hele all.
This is the mystery.
Life!
Mind is the traitor.
Slay mind.
Let the corpse of mind lie unburied on the edge of
the Great Sea!
Death!
This is the mystery.
Tyle!
Cowen, skidoo!

What in the world does all that mean exactly?