Ordo Templii Orientis: Who the heck are these guys??

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
dh - you are spewing some serious non-sense in your posts - is your medication running low? I love it when Members of the Fundamentalist Christian CULTS oops... I mean "Churches" calling Free Thinkers who find Value in the PHILOSOPHY of Thelema & get together to discuss it -a "CULT"!

The Book of the Law says that all of your "Churches" & "Governments" are nothing but RESTRICTION! You are treating fellow Citizens like BABIES! I believe that the time will come that when the words "Freedom & Liberty" are mentioned then there better be actual Freedom & Liberty available to people in their lives - if not - well in that case just watch for the Revolution!

The basis of our Philosophy - The most Ideal for the 21st Century that WE WANT & are willing to Fight for is "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."!

Down with Tyrannical "Moralists"!


[edit on 19-6-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Well, mate, I do object to being kind of bundled in with Christian fundamentalists, although I will give some of the genuine fundamentalist self-styled 'Ministries' their due, they do believe in what they do and they do produce some good research into the activities of the fake 'Fundamentalists' who gather around the Bush regime Satanist sacrificers and bloodsuckers,genocidal annihilationists and mass murderers, and their backers and controllers, and this extends out through the Blair regime and other western and other client government systems
I personallyagree that churches and religion are restriction - more than that - total mind control systems
I'd never use a drop of the evil multinational drug cartel's medication (=neurotoxin) btw
The Christian system, a repetitive outgrowth of other more ancient religions is damned and finished
The deceptive controllers will use it however through its control of might and force to destroy other world religions before it goes down- Islam first
And what to replace? In the empty chasm of the mechanistic chance-occurrence world?
The UN and its Lucis Press - Alice Bailey, racist and fascist firebrand, with her immaculate and useful 7 ray theory informing certain branches of radionic theory- the UN with its 80% population reduction target
Madame Blavatsky with her Great White Brotherhood - these 4th dimension controllers, just off-limits to the 3D perception
Listen to the whisperings, OTO adherents - they are reprogramming your DNA/RNA
Crowley and his mate Winston and his feed into the Teutonic knights - spiritual support, like the Bush money trail, to both sides of the death-fraught argument - as it always is in most conflicts
'Do what thou wilt....' would be a great argument, given that the will of an individual doesn't cross that of other with psychopathic disregard
Of course, in this particular aspect of this space/time continuum, the do what thou wilt psychopathy is being used by both the established governments and their hidden backers and sequestered secret societies to screw the most of the goyim, the chattel, the cattle

[edit on 19-6-2005 by dh]

[edit on 19-6-2005 by dh]

Originally posted by dh

Listen to the whisperings, OTO adherents - they are reprogramming your DNA/RNA

That is one goofy statement.

Any more questions about the O.T.O. out there?

Originally posted by dh
The Christian system, a repetitive outgrowth of other more ancient religions is damned and finished
...
And what to replace? In the empty chasm of the mechanistic chance-occurrence world?
...
Madame Blavatsky with her Great White Brotherhood
...
Listen to the whisperings, OTO adherents - they are reprogramming your DNA/RNA
...
Of course, in this particular aspect of this space/time continuum, the do what thou wilt psychopathy is being used by both the established governments and their hidden backers and sequestered secret societies to screw the most of the goyim, the chattel, the cattle

I think it's time to call the pharmacy and ask for a refill...

Originally posted by HeirX
Hello all and 93

I am both a Mason and a member of the O.T.O.

If I can help clear up any misunderstandings it would be my pleasure.

I have a couple questions Amigo... I didn't think you could be a Mason in a regular Lodge and be an OTO member seeing as some believe OTO to be clandestine Masonry. There's a part in the 3rd degree that forbids joining a clandestine lodge.



The other one is how closely related to Thelema is Co- Masonry if any. Thanx

Originally posted by TgSoe
I have a couple questions Amigo... I didn't think you could be a Mason in a regular Lodge and be an OTO member seeing as some believe OTO to be clandestine Masonry. There's a part in the 3rd degree that forbids joining a clandestine lodge.

Freemasonry and the OTO are two separate organizations. As far as I know, OTO doesn't pretend to be masonic in any way and therefore cannot be cosidered a clandestine masonic organization. Just because OTO has copied symbols or rituals or what not doesn't mean anything. Lots of organizations have done that. Just about every fraternity in the world has taken something from Freemasonry. Doesn't mean that we are forbidden from joining them, because they do not try to pass themselves off as being masonic.

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by dh
While Crowley may have some had connections into the Thule society, his recorded intonations of rite give us an almost exact voice-double of Churchill

Exact? Crowley has a very nasally sound Churchill didn't have. listen for yourself www.rawilsonfans.com...

www.rawilsonfans.com...





[edit on 6/18/2005 by Cug]

Pentagrams? I rest my case

[edit on 19-6-2005 by dh]

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by dh

Listen to the whisperings, OTO adherents - they are reprogramming your DNA/RNA

That is one goofy statement.

Any more questions about the O.T.O. out there?

It's goofy as hell but about correct
The liquid crystal nature of your DNA picks up the bio-acoustics of your riyual and the intent, the colour, the belief sysrem
It's not so goofy
It's all in there

[edit on 19-6-2005 by dh]

[
This is a blank post
WAs only repetitive
Apologies

[edit on 19-6-2005 by dh]

Originally posted by dh
Pentagrams? I rest my case

That's a pitifully weak case.

Originally posted by sebatwerk

Freemasonry and the OTO are two separate organizations. As far as I know, OTO doesn't pretend to be masonic in any way and therefore cannot be cosidered a clandestine masonic organization. Just because OTO has copied symbols or rituals or what not doesn't mean anything. Lots of organizations have done that. Just about every fraternity in the world has taken something from Freemasonry. Doesn't mean that we are forbidden from joining them, because they do not try to pass themselves off as being masonic.

Here are some quotes from Hymenaeus Beta the head of the O.T.O. published in the Magical Link Vol IX No. 1 (The Offical O.T.O. newsletter)

Crowley quickly realized that the post-Yarker era meant change. He was not rebellious by reflex, at least where old British institutions were concerned. He undoubtedly believed O.T.O. had authority from Yarker to work the Antient and Primitive Rite's equivalent to the Craft degrees in England, but once made aware of the issue of regularity when having his own French masonic credentials declined,he was not defiant and on his own made changes to the O.T.O. to avoid conflict. He inserted notices into the last number of The Equinox to the effect that the O.T.O.did not infringe upon the just privileges of the Grand Lodge of England.

During WWI Crowley worked slightly revised English Craft rituals in America,but despite the absence of a central Grand Lodge, he met with objections frommasonic authorities. He then rewrote the O.T.O. rituals for I°- III°so that they no longer resembled Craft masonry degrees in language, theme or intent.

The situation with the O.T.O. and masonry today is somewhat different than in Crowley's time, but the spirit of fraternity and respect is the same. We have taken several steps to avoid even the appearance of infringement on masonic privileges. An increasing number of O.T.O. members are masons-many having taken their initiations in masonic lodge with The Book of the Law as the volume of the sacred law. These members feel no conflict with their masonic vows in being members of O.T.O.

The O.T.O. is evolving, and will in time become grow away from its masonic roots,as we have our own unique emphasis and mission. It is however vital that we first educate ourselves thoroughly in our doctrinal origins so that we do not, in our ignorance, change or abandon ideas and values we do not yet understand.-H.B.

I also believe that even if Crowley managed to hook up the "real" Masons he would not of lasted long. His bi-sexuality would of ended up excluding him on moral grounds (remember this was in the early 1900's, nowadays this might not happen).

I don’t see any connection with Co- Masonry.

Originally posted by dh
Pentagrams? I rest my case

You rest your case?? what the hell did you prove? That the O.T.O. are involved in the occult? Well Duhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I use pentagrams (in both directions) Hexagrams, I stand around in funny clothes, waving wands, knifes, swords while speaking in a strange languages calling on angels, demons, and gods to do my bidding. Nobody ever denied that, so it took no great work on your case to prove that!

Originally posted by Cug
Crowley quickly realized that the post-Yarker era meant change. He was not rebellious by reflex, at least where old British institutions were concerned. He undoubtedly believed O.T.O. had authority from Yarker to work the Antient and Primitive Rite's equivalent to the Craft degrees in England, but once made aware of the issue of regularity when having his own French masonic credentials declined,he was not defiant and on his own made changes to the O.T.O. to avoid conflict. He inserted notices into the last number of The Equinox to the effect that the O.T.O.did not infringe upon the just privileges of the Grand Lodge of England.

Thanks for the great explanation. I pretty much figured as much. Most organizations use ideas taken from Freemasonry and some, later on, have made efforts to depart from that. An example of this is the Mormon Church. They used to have rituals that borrowed VERY HEAVILY from masonic degrees, and later changed it.

'Do what thou wilt....' WOULD be a great argument, given that the will of an individual doesn't cross that of other with psychopathic disregard.

If you are of the viewpoint that destruction is necessary for change, and that destruction must be willed to be initiated, then your will is not compatible with what I will subject myself to.

Thus, when world leaders ever since WWII have plunged into war, there has been no moral high ground, as we have all come to slowly realize.

The Third Reich did win. They put on an extreme face so we wouldn't detect them in their subtle form, post-war. And most were happy to believe they were on the side of good, that Bombing Hiroshima was good!

Originally posted by akilles
'Do what thou wilt....' WOULD be a great argument, given that the will of an individual doesn't cross that of other with psychopathic disregard.

A persons True Will can not interfere with another persons Will, if it does someone is mistaken on what their True Will really is.


And then we have some more weird "Nazis won" talk that has nothing to do with the O.T.O

Somewhere along the line there is a Conflict of Will.

You see, these groups are meeting in secret, and they think of themselves as having a GROUP WILL.

Its no less true than an individual will to them, and thus, they are only doing what is 'natural' to them. They believe Man's progress must be filled with obstacles to test his character. That they need to play Anti-Hero, for the rise of Heroes to occur, if you want it put simply.

They are creating the mythology of modern man, for the era where both faith and knowledge will be shaken in humanity.

Akilles, really do you know anything about the O.T.O.? or Thelema? Who have you talked to? What have you read? Why do you think this?

The claims you are making are so far off from the way they actually are it’s not even funny.

Originally posted by akilles
And most were happy to believe they were on the side of good, that Bombing Hiroshima was good!

I don't know of anyone who believes that bombing Hiroshima was "good"; it was pretty horrible.... but then, so was the carpet bombing of Tokyo that killed over 200,000 people (more than Hiroshima) the week before. Nothing in war is really "good".

Quote: "'Do what thou wilt....' would be a great argument, given that the will of an Individual doesn't cross into *Psychopathic Disregard*."


I can't believe that I am going to do this but here it goes - I Agree with you!

However - Just because I am following my "TRUE WILL" doesn't mean that I just Disregard REASON & going to off on a "Psychopathic Killing Spree" just because I feel like doing it! A Real Thelemite would never do this – it is a sign of Weakness to use the Law of Thelema to try & justify every Petty Desire! We are talking more on the level of Destiny here instead!

I Balance my Practice of the "Law of Thelema" (Which is none other that the Divinely Granted Law of
*FREE-WILL* - which Christians like defcon5 will acknowledge that we were given - but usually don't ever use - they prefer to be in Sheep Mode instead) with the Scientifically Valid Law of "Cause & Effect" - i.e. also known as Karma! It is pretty powerful stuff when you combine the Powers of the Mind/Will & the Powers of the Spirit/Soul!

P.S. Take it easy on Akilles - he is still Learning - but I have Confidence in him! He just needs to get over his Phobia's!

Oh yeah Cug -

Quote: "I use Pentagrams (in both directions) Hexagrams, I stand around in funny clothes, waving wands, knifes, swords while speaking in a strange languages calling on angels, demons, and gods to do my bidding. Nobody ever denied that, so it took no great work on your case to prove that!"

That was HILLARIOUS - I started Laughing my A*s off when I read that!
Good One!

[edit on 20-6-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 20-6-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 20-6-2005 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Originally posted by JustMe74
I don't know of anyone who believes that bombing Hiroshima was "good"; it was pretty horrible.... but then, so was the carpet bombing of Tokyo that killed over 200,000 people (more than Hiroshima) the week before. Nothing in war is really "good".

I don't think that the bombing oh Hiroshima and Nagasaki was good... but I think it was BETTER than needless american lives being taken because of Japan's brutal guerrilla combat tactics.

Originally posted by Cug
Akilles, really do you know anything about the O.T.O.? or Thelema? Who have you talked to? What have you read? Why do you think this?

The claims you are making are so far off from the way they actually are it’s not even funny.

I see a familiar theme here... we used to ask him the SAME EXACT things about Freemasonry. Hmmmm... troll? I think so!

www.rawilsonfans.com...

That guy was a GENIUS - I Love it!