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Originally posted by sebatwerk
Originally posted by HeirX
93 Cug and congrats on your upcoming Initiation. I will be happy to learn how things work out and if I can be of any assistance, let me know.
What does "93" mean?
Originally posted by sebatwerk
Originally posted by HeirX
93 Cug and congrats on your upcoming Initiation. I will be happy to learn how things work out and if I can be of any assistance, let me know.
What does "93" mean?
Originally posted by Cug
Then why did the Nazi's put the head of the German O.T.O. in a prison camp?
Why didn’t the Nazi's follow ANY of the basic precepts of Thelema?
Why didn't the British Government arrest Crowley during WWII
Why did the American Government allow a officer in the Army to correspond and visit with Crowley?
Why did they allow an O.T.O. to work in a top secret environment?
As nice as wikipedia is, it's not the definitive source of information. Anyone can edit anything on there. I can make a wikipedia article about how the ATS poster dh is really a small green vase.. that wont make it true.
Originally posted by dh
Well, you're all sun-worshippers
Reversed we have the black sun
Originally posted by Cug
Seb, from another post bqasicly it's shorthand for the Thelemic greeting.
...
93
93 93/93 means
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
Love is the law, love under will
Originally posted by Cug
Originally posted by dh
Well, you're all sun-worshippers
Reversed we have the black sun
What is with this reversing stuff?
You are a God worshiper
Reversed we have Satan. thus you are a Satan worshiper!
The American government imported Nazis at the end of the war - why wouldn't a Masonic government communicate with one of theirs?
Originally posted by The Axeman
Originally posted by Toelint
A visit to BOTH websites left me feeling VERY uneasy. Hey, I'm NOT joking! This is the VERY FIRST TIME reading about a secret society gave me the spooks.
May I ask what it is exactly that made you feel uneasy?
I have been looking into OTO, but admittedly I haven't looked much further than their main website yet. I read the ritual for the Gnostic Mass, and I didn't see anything that really made me uneasy. I have to say that this is the kind of stuff that would make fundamentalist Christians load their britches though.
I am interested just what freaked you out so much?
Just Me74: I wouldn't call them wanna-be's, but from what I have seen and read they do closely resemble Golden Dawn Orders and such.
Why are people so freaked out by occultism? If it's not for you, fine, but is there really any reason to get all bent out of shape?
Actually I was going to start a thread in a similar vein, but I think instead I'll see where this one goes. Hopefully we can keep the trolling down to a dull roar and get some good info exchange going on.
[edit on 6/16/05 by The Axeman]
Originally posted by Toelint
Here is the link to their bodies page. from here, you can link to practically any lodge in the U.S. The Salt Lake City lodge link also has a "team photo" page. Maybe THIS is what spooked me so much.
oto-usa.org...
Originally posted by sebatwerk
Ah, I get it. So it's like a greeting then. I have seen the "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" someplace before, I think an OTO website, but I didn't know it was a greeting.
Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente
Well not really. The "Golden Dawn" was a Hermetic Order
(actually it is the "Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn").
Aleister Crowley Channeled the "Book of the Law" in 1904.
Later on he became Head of the O.T.O. (Co-Incidentally he was also a Leading Member of the "Golden Dawn") & re-wrote the "Gnostic Mass" & the Initiation Rituals to conform to the Law of Thelema (i.e. "Do What Thou Will Shall be the Whole of the Law" & "Love is the Law - Love under Will"). The older Orders provided Crowley with a Template to work with.
Originally posted by Cug
As a Thelemite I'm going to be picky on the quote of the Law of Thelema. It's "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" and "Love is the law, love under will."
Originally posted by defcon5
I can see now were masonry gets the flag of being satanic/Luciferian, since it’s rooted in this, Cabala, and Gnosticism. While I understand that perhaps the god, gods or goddesses, of this religion do not hold the same name of Satan or Lucifer, any Christian is going to look at this as being exactly that.
Though your religion may allow a Christian to be a part of it, “as long as they can fulfill their organizational role”, no true Christian would ever be able to accept the dogmas of this religion and keep true Christian beliefs intact. The point I am making is that by whatever name you call it, or the gods of it, it is diametrically opposed to the message of Christianity.
I am not flaming it, or picking on it or anything else, I am simply stating that the message I have seen so far is to mock the Christian communion, and to teach people to choose their will and the law above all else.
It is funny to see now the way that Masons like Masonic light can feel Ok in recruiting Christians by playing name games by stating it’s not Satanic or Luciferian, while the two theologies can obviously not peacefully co-exist.
Although masonry is mainly a fraternity, it is based on several pagan religions, and they obviously lie on that factor, and while it may not be a religion unto itself, all its ritual, symbolism, etc is based on it. They keep these facts hidden until the initiate is already gone too far into the religion to understand what they have gotten themselves into.
Originally posted by defcon5
Originally posted by Cug
As a Thelemite I'm going to be picky on the quote of the Law of Thelema. It's "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" and "Love is the law, love under will."
I am somewhat curious as a Christian, and having a Christian’s view of the Law as opposed to Grace, what exactly is meant by this quote. Is it that you are to do whatever it is that pleases yourself first, according to your own will, which is to love yourself above all?
Please explain if I do not understand the quote correctly…
from: oto-usa.org...
The PRIEST:
Thou who art I, beyond all I am,
Who hast no nature and no name,
Who art, when all but thou are gone,
Thou, centre and secret of the Sun,
Thou, hidden spring of all things known
And unknown, Thou aloof, alone,
Thou, the true fire within the reed
Brooding and breeding, source and seed
Of life, love, liberty, and light,
Thou beyond speech and beyond sight,
Thee I invoke, my faint fresh fire
Kindling as mine intents aspire.
Thee I invoke, abiding one,
Thee, centre and secret of the Sun,
And that most holy mystery
Of which the vehicle am I.
Appear, most awful and most mild,
As it is lawful, in thy child!
The CHORUS:
For of the Father and the Son
The Holy Spirit is the norm;
Male-female, quintessential, one,
Man-being veiled in woman-form.
Glory and worship in the highest,
Thou Dove, mankind that deifiest,
Being that race, most royally run
To spring sunshine through winter storm.
Glory and worship be to Thee,
Sap of the world-ash, wonder-tree!
First Semichorus, MEN:
Glory to thee from gilded tomb!
Second Semichorus, WOMEN:
Glory to thee from waiting womb!
MEN:
Glory to Thee from earth unploughed!
WOMEN:
Glory to Thee from virgin vowed!
MEN:
Glory to Thee, true Unity
Of the eternal Trinity!
WOMEN:
Glory to Thee, thou sire and dam
And self of I am that I am!
MEN:
Glory to Thee, beyond all term,
Thy spring of sperm, thy seed and germ!
WOMEN:
Glory to Thee, eternal Sun,
Thou One in Three, Thou Three in One!
CHORUS:
Glory and worship unto Thee,
Sap of the world-ash, wonder-tree!
Originally posted by sebatwerk
dh: Please explain this statement:
The American government imported Nazis at the end of the war - why wouldn't a Masonic government communicate with one of theirs?
How can Freemasons be Nazis, when they were put in concentration camps by the Third Reich!?!?!? You're pathetic attempts at being a troll are laughable. You're not even a GOOD troll. You have failed to ever anger me, you're a little pip squeak that serves me for a good laugh. Keep it up -->
Originally posted by dh
Accusations of trolling aimed at ideas you dont agree with are troll in themselves, as are pipsqueak accusations
Here is a Guardian editorial comment that applies to you
*snip*
No doubt backed by secret society elites
They're all members of the network
Originally posted by defcon5
I can see now were masonry gets the flag of being satanic/Luciferian, since it’s rooted in this, Cabala, and Gnosticism. While I understand that perhaps the god, gods or goddesses, of this religion do not hold the same name of Satan or Lucifer, any Christian is going to look at this as being exactly that.
Originally posted by Cug
As a Thelemite I'm going to be picky on the quote of the Law of Thelema. It's "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" and "Love is the law, love under will."
I am somewhat curious as a Christian, and having a Christian’s view of the Law as opposed to Grace, what exactly is meant by this quote. Is it that you are to do whatever it is that pleases yourself first, according to your own will, which is to love yourself above all?