Are UFOs , The Nephilim ?

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join

posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 09:32 PM
link   
I was scoffed at for believing in patrick herons comments about them.

www.raidersnewsupdate.com...

perhaps I put too much faith in him...maybe not

anyways , I'm not obsessed with them , but I did grow up with that info in the house. my father was the rabid ufo hound of the house.

he went to lots of mufon meetings and met dr hynek and even got spooked by some MIBs' after he suggested shooting one down...[ I guess they thought they had a recruit ]

but I'd say they were real , and they've been here all along, they didn't just come here to check us out ,it's more like, we're the invaders, who are a threat to their existence by mucking up the planet and by possibly exposing them to the public.

their purpose..I dunno, other than to survive...

what should we do ? well , other than keeping an eye peeled for one , not much , cuz our NRO and other lesser known agencies pretty much got all the bases covered.

why are they keeping quiet ? I think they agreed to it.

I also think that we are in the "end times"...it could be very soon, or a hundred years from now , dunno for sure. but I'd say there are gonna be more and more sightings, not sure what that signifies...just more activity.

I also found chuck missler to be quite informed on the subject

store.khouse.org...

for you very studious types who can't get enuf, and like a christian slant;

khouse.org...

so , what are your thoughts ?

[edit on 2-7-2005 by John bull 1]




posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 02:49 PM
link   
interesting, will read later



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:46 AM
link   
Hey Toasted !

Are you toasted yet ? lol

I am a Chuck Missler fan from way back. I Refer to him quit often. I think the guy is too smart for his own good ! He's Great ! He is out there thats for sure. But he does make sense. After about the third or fourth time around.

Like the B Letter Bible on the Koin site. It's been a great help to me for years. Helps me out especially on this site !

Do you know about these sites ?

www.equip.org
www.icr.org


Glad to see another researcher as myself

Truth



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 02:51 AM
link   
Well I said I would show up if you started a thread, so here I am.

I have just started to dig into your articles, but I did look a bit when you mentioned them that last time.

Can I disclaimer a bit. I know they do not really stop people from being offended but at least they show that is not my intent. For me to discuss this particular subject nothing can be really 'sacred'. By that I mean that any choice or data has to be evaluated, nothing excluded.

So when I start out by saying that the Bible records little history and that the Book of R is not about any end times. I know I am challenging things that have been said by people of note and trust.

Still my personal experience and research has lead me to both conclusions.

You see there was a time when people expected more from their religion, they expected enlightenment, to grow as people in a meaningful way. Back then the Book of R existed as part of those teachings. Deeper stuff, but all good and nice. But growing wise means learning how much you do not know, it means wanting to keep asking questions, forever.

So at some point the words were changed. They evolved, into something else.

Now like all religious texts there is some history in there, certain major cities did exist, certain Countries, and so on. But it is not a historical document and these settings serve as little more than anchors to put the otherwise total fiction of the stories in a real context.

So what this all means is that the foundation that the theory that Aliens are creatures associated with the Bible is shaky at best, and really just looking for a simple answer. A way to use faith, which has a proper place in society, to find answers to questions that are beyond faith's scope.



A.T
(-)




[edit on 6/17/05 by Alexander Tau]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 08:36 PM
link   
To: Alexander Tau


Just becuse you do not accept the Bible as Truth doesn't mean it isn't so !

Ignorance is no excuse !

On the contrary. Everyone that I have ever met that has studied the bible in it's totality would completley disagree with your mentality of the Word Of God.

The Book of Revelation not being a book of Prophecy ? Please explain your thoughts or ideas ?

I would like to know what your experience is in studying the Bible to make such wild accusations as the Bible not being true, Or not a valid book of History etc.....

How did you come to these conclusions ?

Truth



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 10:27 PM
link   
Happy to explain.

I have been a student of mankind for my entire 40+ years of life. When I study something I look at everything, I do not limit myself to people who believe any particular way.

When a religion is active people look at it one way, when it has past it's time they look at it another. When a religion is active and a person is a part of it they cannot easily look at what they are told with a critical eye, you have to accept some things on pure faith because no religion has ever had all the answers. If you expect too much you will be disappointed.

My studies have covered everything from the obscure to the popular.




Just becuse you do not accept the Bible as Truth doesn't mean it isn't so !


I do not tell people what to believe, what I suggest is that they go and look for themselves. Not everyone who studies the Bible as a historical event has an axe to grind, many just wish to determine the truth.

What I will do is say what I believe, and let you judge both me and my words. Most people, with time, come to feel I am fair and honest in my judgements.




On the contrary. Everyone that I have ever met that has studied the bible in it's totality would completley disagree with your mentality of the Word Of God.


Ok, and how many of those are not Christians? How many are objective observers? To say people who already believe in the book support it means little.

No one should argue that there is nothing good in the Bible, or that it has not helped to guide the very foundations of our Society. Those actions come from using religion in it's proper place, to guide people into better behavior.




The Book of Revelation not being a book of Prophecy ? Please explain your thoughts or ideas ?


Read the history of the religion, it is out there just waiting for you to look. Originally those texts which we call the Book of R where very mystical and used for deep study. My readings of some of the original words are somewhat impressive, they show an understanding of eastern style thought which is surprising for the time.

The problem with any book that exists for a long time is simple, Translation. If you are translating a book today you will many times find yourself searching out a native source for some explaination. What does this phrase mean in this context? Language is so tied to the people of the times that without that sort of support you are going to make some mistakes.

Along the way, with each step, the people in power have made their little additions. One of the most famous, and documented, cases comes when in the form of the King James version. There are letters from the King that say 'lets strengthen the work ethic' as we make our new bible.

In plain black and white, let's rewrite the holy book so that it does a better job for what we want, control.

You can prove this happened for yourself if you are willing to look.

Another example is all the Devil stuff, that is not original to the New Testiment either. There was a Council, they decided that the message of Peace and Love was not spreading well enough. They were tired of the tree-hugging pagans as well. So they took the pagan diety Pan, who is all about love and fun, and yes, sex, and turned him into a fallen angel.

Do you realize how little is actually in the Bible today about the Devil? Take out the Book of R and what do you have, a few lines? Compare that with how much priests talk about the Devil and you will see how successful the concept was. 90% of what people say they know about the Devil comes from fiction, all the war in heaven, falling into the pit etc. Fiction, written as satire on the government at the time.

But what was written as fiction works, people love it so you do not see Priests standing up and saying 'now people none of that stuff is official'.

But if this book is the holy word of God, then how can all these pesky humans make all these changes (and not a one for good reasons) and get away with it?

The story of the Book of R is similar. The original is so powerful they could not just delete it, so words were changed. You can trace the whole 'end of the world' intrepretation to a single man not that many years ago. Before that you either find nothing about the Book of R, or you find the original truth, it is part of a path to enlightenment.

This is what I have found in years of study, most pre-internet. Today the work can be done in a much shorter time. This is how I reached the conclusions I have and the data is there for anyone who wishes to look.

So I am sorry, but when anyone asks 'are aliens really fallen angels' or any variation, I have to respond 'no'. This is not a statement on the good, or evil, of a religion, it is a statement of logic and study.



A.T
(-)


[edit on 6/17/05 by Alexander Tau]



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 01:12 PM
link   
Hey Alex-

You sound fair and honest in your thinking but don't know if you are being honest and fair with yourself when researching both sides of the spectrum of the validity of the bible.

Thanks again for your reply- One Question,

Have you personally read the bible in it's totality and studied it in greek and in hebrew ?

Just asking because you mentioned that your sources are primarily internet driven. There is so much crap on the internet that you have found going against the bible that is putting doubt in your head. Remember the Internet is not pro-Christian. So with that said you know and I know what the majority of the angels presented on the internet actually are. For the most part they go against christianity.

Have you happen to have read any pro-books by any scholors or authors ? Proving the validity of the bible ? If so, can you please name the titles and authors for my own research.

If you are genuine about your research you have to study both sides and of course read the source for yourself in it's totality. I don't claim to be a scholar or anything near that. But I can say that I have had many years of research and involvement in the study of aplogetics and proving the validity of the bible.

I would like to make a couple of recommendations that are a MUST when researching the validity of Gods word. No matter what satan has tried to do through mans distortion does NOT take away the validity and power of Gods Word.

Very imformative Apologetics site with authors etc......

www.infidels.org...

LEE STROBEL-One of many researchers that have become followers of Christ after trying to refute the validity of the Bible.

www.caseforacreator.com...

www.zondervan.com...

www.infidels.org...

Hope to hear back from you !
Truth !




posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 01:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
....
Now like all religious texts there is some history in there, certain major cities did exist, certain Countries, and so on. But it is not a historical document and these settings serve as little more than anchors to put the otherwise total fiction of the stories in a real context.

So what this all means is that the foundation that the theory that Aliens are creatures associated with the Bible is shaky at best, and really just looking for a simple answer. A way to use faith, which has a proper place in society, to find answers to questions that are beyond faith's scope.



A.T
(-)




[edit on 6/17/05 by Alexander Tau]



Hmmmmm,
Sounds like all that acid rain from the northern industrial belt found it's way to Indianapolis to me,....... Hope God isn't reading your internet posts
Banjo Guru



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 06:10 PM
link   


Have you personally read the bible in it's totality and studied it in greek and in hebrew ?


I read most of it, it is not exactly an easy read as you know, and yes I have studied all of the previous versions known to exist. I was doing the same for every religion or belief system so naturally I did not spend all my time on one book. The study of those other versions is the root of my feeling that the original work no longer is contained in the current versions of the Bible.




Just asking because you mentioned that your sources are primarily internet driven


You misread what I said, most of my research was 'pre-internet'. Now much of the material is available online for those who wish to do the same and not have to spend 10 years doing so.

I would not say the internet has a anti-Christian bias, what it has is a bias for Truth. Individuals not bound by a group or the need to conform are putting out what they think uncensored.




Have you happen to have read any pro-books by any scholors or authors ? Proving the validity of the bible ? If so, can you please name the titles and authors for my own research.


I read everything available on every subject I study. It has been a while, but go back a few years and if it was out and available I probably read it. Most of my work was through Libraries but I did get things other ways. If you are looking for sources on this I suggest taking a look at BTS here. Someone by the name of Isason (spelling?) has done some remarkable work, filled with names, dates, places, and every reference you could want.

While there are many, not all, on the negative side that make errors of logic or proceedure it is totally rampant on the positive side. Faith is supposed to substitute for logic I suppose but that does not work for me.




I would like to make a couple of recommendations that are a MUST when researching the validity of Gods word. No matter what satan has tried to do through mans distortion does NOT take away the validity and power of Gods Word.


It must be nice to believe that, but it is just untrue. Man wrote these words, and has been messing about with them ever since. Not one addition has been for the good of mankind, each and every one has been to strengthen control and to counter other schools of thought.

The real point of this thread is about Aliens and who they might be. All I am trying to say with all of this is that you cannot use the Bible to understand anything other than the Christian faith. It is not a record of history and most of what is there is based on perceptions that we do not accept today.

Do you ever think about the people of 100 CE? Do you realize what they believed about life. Except for simple things like making wine, or mudbricks, we know they knew next to nothing about how life really works.

This was before even the concept of Science existed.

So we know they were not very bright (compared to today of course) and we know that they did not understand all that much. But we trust what was written then to answer the Ultimate Questions? That is just beyond absurd, it is a child-like as they were.

I remember one book, still have it around somewhere. It is about Ezeqal (really misspelled there) and the possibility that what he reported on a space craft of some sort. I will grant that it is possible that this is the actual story of what happened, but I have seen some other suggestions that are not only more plausable but fit the text much better.

But even if you accept that the story is about a UFO, there is NOTHING there to learn. The person doing the 'reporting' has no basis for any sort of judgement so we cannot use that to learn anything except that UFOs have been visiting for sometime.

Today, after all our years of scientific acheivement, public schools, Colleges, and the like, the most frequent thing you will hear from skeptics is that the average person is not qualified to judge what they see in the sky. I am not in total agreement with this idea, but in many cases it is true.
For example someone was explaining to me something they saw, and they described a quick stop and then a direct upwards movement.

I said ok, sounds interesting, but have you ever heard of the Harrier (a VTOL plane in use my the US and GB)? The answer was 'no'. Does this mean what he saw was not a UFO, of course not. But what it does mean is that his knowledge of things that fly is limitied and that increases the odds that what he saw has a normal explaination.

Anything you get out of the Bible is a matter of interpretation, nothing is clear and obvious. It is possible to spin all sorts of ideas out of that book, most of which have nothing whatsoever to do with why they were written or what the stories are really about.


A.T
(-)

[edit on 6/18/05 by Alexander Tau]



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 12:00 PM
link   
Hey Alex,

I understand what you are saying in the fact where as the bible does or doesn't talk about UFO's in the book of Ezekial. That's real iffy and might even be stretching for that one. UFO’s are a whole other subject as we both agree.

On the otherhand you have seriously discounted the validity of the bible being Gods word. I am not sure if you have studied how the bible was put constructed and by whom and when ? But believe it or not it's continuity spreads throughout thousands of years and consistantly stands throughout attacks from anyman and will continue to do so.

I couldn’t help notice a statement where you said “Faith is supposed to substitute for logic I suppose but that does not work for me.”

Faith is not a substitution for Logic ? And never should be. Even as a Christian.

Have you happen to have studied the:

Heptadic Structure
The Vocabulary
Gemetria
Numerics

Of how the Bible was constructed ? This is only four scientific proofs of a Grand Design. There are many more.

It has been demonstrated that the numerics upon which the Bible is constructed proves design -- an elaborate design. And, where you have an elaborate design, you must have a sophisticated Designer. "The Bible numerics of the Scripture ... are only discovered by scientific and scholarly investigation: like the arithmetic of the musical scale of the human voice; like the arithmetic of the solar system; like the arithmetic arrangement of chemical atoms in the molecule. The discovery of this wonderful distribution of arithmetic in the phenomena of nature has been a great factor in the overthrow of atheism, which has been so complete that atheists are now rare; agnosticism being the present day refuge of the opposers of a God."

This same argument can be made against the proponents of Evolution. Science generally, and Genetics specifically, absolutely demolish the arguments of the proponents of Evolution. The ridiculous theory of Evolution simply will not stand up to any degree of honest investigation, whether slight or great. Truly, God will never allow himself to be without a powerful witness in the world.

In keeping on the subject of Grand Design did you happen to know that even the dimensions of the planets have this same mathematical design as the Word Of God And the intervals between the notes of the musical scale and the number of the vibrations of the air in Middle 'C' is designed in the exact same way ? Too many more things to list but I will provide you with a couple of links to ad to your library for your own research purposes.

Links are as follows:
www.cuttingedge.org...
www.khouse.org...

Have Fun-

Truth !



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 03:31 PM
link   
the other night , I surfed coasttocoastam and heard something related to this [ ufo/God thing ]

this guy...robert o dean ;

www.beyondzebra.com...

was on ;

www.coasttocoastam.com...

talking about his credentials and experience and that these UFO's have been monitoring us for thousands of years ,
he believes THEY are responsible for all the DIFFERENT religions around the world, and much much more.

FWIW , he verbally confirmed the existence of film of IKE and the Aliens meeting [ as described in coopers, "behold a pale horse" ]....[ I not sure what to make of that whole thing [ the meeting, like; real info , or disinfo.. ]].

and one of his final comments was, he still believed in God.


so the fallen angels thing...maybe or maybe not...but for my money, I too believe there are both [ God and UFO's ]

in the 1st part of the coast show , it was interesting to find out that the singer from grand funk railroad
had seen a ufo in 1968 in michigan , actually he woke the whole family to get up and witness it .

but at his moms urging he kept silent about it , til one day he was visiting someone at their office and he started to relate the whole story , when the secretary pops in , crying , and asks if she can say something...well it turns out that on that very same night farner witnessed the ufo so did this girl , it passed right over where she lived.

anyways she was very upset cuz she didn't know what it meant etc and farner did his best to calm her down. he figgerd God made them too, and he wasn't worried about what it all meant. it was quite interesting.


any thoughts ?



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 04:35 PM
link   
Originally posted by Alexander Tau

I do not tell people what to believe, what I suggest is that they go and look for themselves.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well go re-read your posts about what you stated in them . Yes you are going about it in a gentle way, but are still telling people what they should believe.

Like others that have answered your challenges...yes there is history in the bible... Faith also is not a form of "not believing facts"...It's something altogether different. Plus many theories that are accepted as fact in this world have been debated by the most brilliant minds to be only "facts" to the person holding on to them...thus rendering them mere theories to anyone outside their circle of reality.



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 05:58 PM
link   
hey Alexander Tau,

you my friend are dead on in your conclusions IMO of course. it was refereshing to see someone else that basically put into words what i too believe to be the more logical conclusion in relation to the bible, i also like your thoughts on all the other subjects you wrote about.



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 07:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by Alexander Tau
[I read everything available on every subject I study. It has been a while, but go back a few years and if it was out and available I probably read it. Most of my work was through Libraries but I did get things other ways.


Have you read the bible verse by verse interpreting words knowing whether written originally in Greek or Hebrew then searching for the true meaning? Ever heard of Strong's concordance?



Man wrote these words (the bible), and has been messing about with them ever since. Not one addition has been for the good of mankind, each and every one has been to strengthen control and to counter other schools of thought.


I don't mean to pick on you but I don't get it.. Did you get this form hearsay?? Are you talking OT or NT?-(above parenthesis mine)



The real point of this thread is about Aliens and who they might be. All I am trying to say with all of this is that you cannot use the Bible to understand anything other than the Christian faith. It is not a record of history and most of what is there is based on perceptions that we do not accept today.


Many people read the Koran, Bible, other inspired works, and can learn many things besides a type of faith...Who says the bible is based on perceptions we don't have today??? Speaking for your peer group or all people in general? Ever read proverbs?



Do you ever think about the people of 100 CE? Do you realize what they believed about life. Except for simple things like making wine, or mudbricks, we know they knew next to nothing about how life really works.
This was before even the concept of Science existed.
So we know they were not very bright (compared to today of course) and we know that they did not understand all that much. But we trust what was written then to answer the Ultimate Questions? That is just beyond absurd, it is a child-like as they were.



No, of course not, that's why religions evolve.



I remember one book, still have it around somewhere. It is about Ezeqal (really misspelled there) and the possibility that what he reported on a space craft of some sort. I will grant that it is possible that this is the actual story of what happened, but I have seen some other suggestions that are not only more plausable but fit the text much better.
But even if you accept that the story is about a UFO, there is NOTHING there to learn. The person doing the 'reporting' has no basis for any sort of judgement so we cannot use that to learn anything except that UFOs have been visiting for sometime.


Are you referring to Ezekiel?? That was in a post above on this thread-What about Moses, Enoch, Abraham, Sara, Isaiah, Jacob, John, Joshua and on and on...



Have you ever heard of the Harrier (a VTOL plane in use my the US and GB)? The answer was 'no'. Does this mean what he saw was not a UFO, of course not. But what it does mean is that his knowledge of things that fly is limitied and that increases the odds that what he saw has a normal explaination.


Harriers have been around a long time. They do not come to an abrupt halt then go vertical that fast.



Anything you get out of the Bible is a matter of interpretation, nothing is clear and obvious. It is possible to spin all sorts of ideas out of that book, most of which have nothing whatsoever to do with why they were written or what the stories are really about.


Funny I used to think the same thing..Please keep an open mind and dig deeper..you might like what you find...and not all that condemnation stuff, either

Ever notice how Aliens and Angels have similar traits???



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 07:53 PM
link   
Truthisoutthere,

I had thought this Thread was dead, but since you spent some time working up your reply I have done the same. I read through both links you provided. None of the subjects mentioned are new to me but they continue to evolve a bit.

Amazing to me, after years of denouncement of Numerology as a 'tool of the Devil' we have Christians using it to prove the Bible is more than words. And it is, it is composed, mostly, of Inspired words. The same sort of Inspiration that leads to novels, songs and all other religious texts.

Math is a construction we have created to use to help us describe how things work. It is some sort of surprise that as well look farther we discover connections, patterns if you will, in the Universe? Not to me.

Nature is all about flow, connection, interaction. The Planet orbit as they do because of the effect of all of them and the Sun together. This sets up a natural pattern with all sorts of layers.

People have been analysing works via Numbers forever, and while what is found is interesting it is rarely more than that. If a work is really Inspired that means it is tapping into common thoughts and feelings that humans can relate to directly. A good novel takes on a life of it's own, the characters make sense and you can extrapolate from what is written to flesh out the words. The author does not say that Character X feels this way, but from his actions we can make that assumption and it fits with the rest of the story.

A bad novel on the other hand does not have this trait. A Character will do things that do not seem to fit with the rest of the story, or perhaps just the whole tale leaves us cold and it is forgotten as quickly as it is read.

The only way that the Numbers of the Bible prove anything is if you make the assumption that 'God' exists. Then you can look to understand the deeper layers that go along with that assumption. Without that belief you have nothing more than a work that shows some inspiration.

I have read similar analysis of the works of Shakespeare for example. All sorts of mysterious numbers and patterns to be found. It is just hard for me to place any sort of significance on that.



Mercury19,

I realize that even speaking here has an effect. This caused a conflict that I had to resolve because of my belief that everyone is entitled to believe what they wish. Normally I operate under my own form of Prime Directive that says I do not have the right to interfere with others unless asked. My years of study have given me tools I can use to convince people but first has to come the choice, from them, that they wish to listen.

These forums represent a grey area, on the one hand people ask questions so I have every right to answer. On the other they are not asking me with full awareness of what it may lead to either.

But in the end I decided that I have the right to speak, and if I am going to do so then I am only going to speak the Truth as I see it.

It is up to each person to weigh what I say and decide for themselves if it is correct. You might have noticed that few people wish to discuss these matters with me, and I respect their right to not do so. If a person is happy with their choices then they do not need me. If someone is not, if someone wishes to remove the years of forced programming they endured as a child, then I am available to help.

Few people choose a religion, most have the choice made for them by their Parents. If that works, great, but when it does not people find that it takes a lot of internal resolve to free themselves of that which they no longer believe.To change internal beliefs you have to 'push' back with a lot of 'emotional force'. I am such a force and I have experience helping people to find a belief structure that works for them.

One difference between me and many other people is that I have no need whatsoever to 'convert' anyone. Every student I have ever had has come away from their time with me with a unique and personal set of beliefs. While the general tone may be mine, the details belong to them. If I ever have a student who tries to simply emulate my beliefs I will take that as a sign that we have a lot more work to do.

So if I come upon a depressed person I will not take advantage of their state to convince them of anything. I will not offer 'salvation' if they give their life to me, I do not want their life. What I will do is help in a way that respects their beliefs. Later, when they are better able to think clearly, if they wish to discuss other subjects we can do so. I compare this with the digusting practice that leads to 'born-agains' and I think my way is better.


Cessna310,

Thanks for the support, always good to know that others agree with me even if they are mostly silent about it.



A.T
(-)



posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 08:06 PM
link   
Hey Toasted,

Thanks for the links ! Haven't looked at them yet but am looking forward to it. It's great conducting actual research in't it's entirity about any subject. It's the only way to make any conclusions for one self !

I believe that the God who created us could have created other beings what we call aliens. It's not impossible ! Besides even if it's not mentioned in the bible that wouldn't neccessarily mean that they simply don't exist. Another words maybe God didn't mention this to as as humans because we live in two different dimensions and that would only confuse us even more ? Another words maybe he created a whole other planet in another solar system with different types of beings ? Who knows ? Maybe they too are on a spiritual journey as we are.

I wonder if they have Free Will too ? Maybe they even have their own Holy Scriptures that point to our same God ?


Overload ! I must stop myself ! Could go on for days just thinking about that kind of stuff !


I think that God probably didn't want to mention this to us because it could become another hinderance and we as humnas have way too many hinderances in our lives anyway. It's hard enough to say on the right path without all the other temptations and deceptions that we all go through on a daily basis.

Could an alien that God created come into our solar system ? I believe so. If they are traveling at lite speads and faster they could possibly cross into our dimension. Maybe one did. The one at Roswell ? Who knows ? God !

Fun to think about but don't spend much time in this as I would rather research the God whom Created us and this Universe and the Spiritual bond between God and his children. There was a Grand design and the more I study different subjects as psychology, biology and physics it just becomes all the more apparent that there is no other answer !

Every man is on his own quest but it will all end in the same place. As we are all human and have a soul that will continue after our fleshly death.

Take it easy !
Truth !!





posted on Jul, 1 2005 @ 10:20 PM
link   
Hey Alex-

First off, thanks for taking the time to reply.

I don’t want this to get into the validity of God issue because this is not the forum. We are supposed to discuss UFO’s right ? I think ? lol I would like to say that I am not judging you in your views. You are right, that everyone needs to come up with their own conclusions by research.

We can agree both agree that the bible has what we can call “ Good Stuff” for behavior in society ? But I have found it to be and mean a lot more than just that.

You mentioned the Book Of Revelation was “Mystical and used for deep study “ ??? It’s a lot deeper than that.

You had mentioned the lost in translation bit.

Let me just say hypothetically: If you new of a scripture that was taken out or left out or like you mentioned the context of a scripture that seems to not be in context or is but it’s questionable ? Would that one scripture discount God and His message of truth ? Would it interfere with the Gospels and the validity of Christ ? Does it or could it affect the plan of salvation ? Can you see where I am going with this ?

I have done some research on this subject and have not read about a single instance as of yet ? If you can think of one let me know because I would like to research myself.

You mentioned the “'lets strengthen the work ethic' as we make our new bible. “ Not sure what the relevance or validity of this is. Can you be more specific ? Another words was this in the reading material of the History of the King James bible ? Or where else did you find this. Just curious ? Like I mentioned before “Work Ethic “ Wouldn’t have any conflict of the message of Christ and how it would relate to following Christ ?

”Another example is all the Devil stuff, that is not original to the New Testiment either. There was a Council, they decided that the message of Peace and Love was not spreading well enough. They were tired of the tree-hugging pagans as well. So they took the pagan diety Pan, who is all about love and fun, and yes, sex, and turned him into a fallen angel. “

Not sure where you read the above statement ? But they didn’t just pop the devil thing in the bible last minute. Quit contrary to what you said the whole Bible both Old and New Testament is about the devil, spiritual darkness, the spiritual, The forces of evil, The prince and power of the airs. He has many more names than this in the scriptures.

In regards to the same the theme that all disease,sickness, rape, murder, perversion, famine, etc………….. comes from the devil and not from God Himself. This reoccurring theme is presented all the way through the old and new testaments Genesis through Revelation. Isn’t this from Satan himself ? Why was there a Christ ? To deliver us from “ Satan “. Not sure where you are getting your information about the Holy Scriptures ?

Have you studied the origin of satan ? God himself was very clear when he spoke about satan from the beginning when HE Himself created satan as a being. He even talks about his presence, how he attacks, how he tempts his personality etc………..


Again- It sounds like you have read some about the bible and it’s history but haven’t read it and studied it too much ? Correct me if I am wrong ?

You mention religion a lot- This might be the separation of our discussion. The bible is not about Religion ? If you are trying to discuss the validity of God or the scriptures through religion I can see that we are not connecting in our discussion ?

You also mentioned “But if this book is the holy word of God, then how can all these pesky humans make all these changes (and not a one for good reasons) and get away with it? “

Good question- Satan has tried through man to water down the message of truth for thousands of years and he has been unsuccessful. The message has not changed ! As far as being punished- They will be punished for changing the Words of God.-

Rev-22:18 and 19
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

They will be seperated from God for eternity ! The ultimate judgment !

The Truth Is There-We just have to dig a little deeper.

Till Next Time-

Search-Study and Have Fun !




posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 02:00 AM
link   
Mercury19,



Have you read the bible verse by verse interpreting words knowing whether written originally in Greek or Hebrew then searching for the true meaning? Ever heard of Strong's concordance?


I did quite a lot of looking at older text, some approved some not. I am aware of the Concordance but to me it simply illustrates the flaw in the logic of people who defend the translations. It is not a matter of words as much as it is of context and setting. When talking about a really old language you run into both problems consistantly: What did this word mean then? and when used in this way does it have any special significance?

To me these problems only grow the farther back you go. We know so little of the real life of the people of these times that trying to translate works is always a challenge. Serious translators know that mistakes are bound to happen, and they are usually never caught because to do so would take knowledge that no one has.



I don't mean to pick on you but I don't get it.. Did you get this form hearsay?? Are you talking OT or NT?-(above parenthesis mine)


Most I talk about the NT because that is what most people mean when they talk about the Bible. The OT is just so full of hate and anger that I do not care for much of any of it, at least the NT has a nice message. I am not sure how you judge hearsay but I took opinions from a lot of people, a lot of authors, and supplimented with my own research. The changes added my men over time were ALWAYS for control, never for the good of the people.




Who says the bible is based on perceptions we don't have today??? Speaking for your peer group or all people in general? Ever read proverbs?


What I said is what the people of the time knew is of little value today. They were ignorant, violent, intolerant and a whole host of other 'values' that we no longer share. What they knew about the World and Life is a tiny fraction of what we know today.

What wisdom there is in the proverbs has been blended into a number of other areas. I do not deny that Christianity was a part of modern civilization's foundations but it never went any farther, and we have.




No, of course not, that's why religions evolve.


That is why they should, Christianity has changed very little for the good.




Harriers have been around a long time. They do not come to an abrupt halt then go vertical that fast.


Not sure why you said this exactly except that it seems to dispute what I said. My point was that they can stop in mid-air and if you do not know that simple fact then I can only assume you know little about aircraft in general. I did not tell this person what they saw was a Harrier, it probably was not, but I cannot put a lot of weight into what they saw because they do not know enough to eliminate other simple possibilities.




Funny I used to think the same thing..Please keep an open mind and dig deeper..you might like what you find...and not all that condemnation stuff, either


I appreciate the thought but I have done as much of that as I care to do. I did not like what I found both on a personal level and in general. There are fundamental flaws in the very conception of Christianity that will never be overcome and there are better belief Systems in existance.


A.T
(-)


[edit on 7/2/05 by Alexander Tau]



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 02:19 AM
link   
Truthisoutthere,



You mentioned the Book Of Revelation was “Mystical and used for deep study “ ??? It’s a lot deeper than that.


You are going to have to explain that a bit, I am not aware of anything deeper than a road map to Enlightenment but perhaps there is something I am unaware of.




Let me just say hypothetically: If you new of a scripture that was taken out or left out or like you mentioned the context of a scripture that seems to not be in context or is but it’s questionable ? Would that one scripture discount God and His message of truth ? Would it interfere with the Gospels and the validity of Christ ? Does it or could it affect the plan of salvation ? Can you see where I am going with this ?


Actually no I am not sure I see where you are going. I can only guess that the people who made such decisions thought that some texts would hurt the cause.




You mentioned the “'lets strengthen the work ethic' as we make our new bible. “ Not sure what the relevance or validity of this is. Can you be more specific ? Another words was this in the reading material of the History of the King James bible ? Or where else did you find this. Just curious ? Like I mentioned before “Work Ethic “ Wouldn’t have any conflict of the message of Christ and how it would relate to following Christ ?


My problem comes when people try to tell me the Bible is the 'unadulterated word of God' it plainly is not and history shows that rather clearly. I do not think it is ok for a secular authority to alter religious texts for their own purposes. I do not think the original authors wanted things in their stories that strengthened the power of the King of England to control his subjects, maybe I am wrong about that but I doubt it.




Not sure where you read the above statement ? But they didn’t just pop the devil thing in the bible last minute. Quit contrary to what you said the whole Bible both Old and New Testament is about the devil, spiritual darkness, the spiritual, The forces of evil, The prince and power of the airs. He has many more names than this in the scriptures.


That is the official story I am simply saying it is not the truth. The majority or the things relating to the Devil are not original. This is not some new idea, people have been researching these questions for ages. A balanced reading of people of all sides yields many more surprising facts.




Again- It sounds like you have read some about the bible and it’s history but haven’t read it and studied it too much ? Correct me if I am wrong ?


Quite wrong, I have studied these matters my entire adult life and I am now over 40. I have been helping people with their religious and other problems for more than 20 years. I have long-term real world experience in what works and what does not. Since I do not limit myself to a specific Dogma I am free to use whatever works with an individual.


The subject at hand remains UFOs. If you subject the Bible to critical review you will have to judge it an unreliable source for information on that subject. The only people who will argue about this are people who have, either by choice, or by parental force, choosen to place their faith in it. But that is not surprising, we know all too well about 'conflict of interests' and we do not allow them when serious matters are at hand. Someone with a vested interest in something is not capable of being fair and impartial.

If there was something of value on this topic my like or dislike of the religion would mean nothing, I would value the data. But what is there is at best questionable.


A.T
(-)


[edit on 7/2/05 by Alexander Tau]



posted on Jul, 2 2005 @ 06:47 PM
link   
Alex-

Lets talk specifics about your findings.

In regards to your all of your claims about people changing things and bad translations and such ? Please give me an example. One that would actually change the message of scripture ? This is the challenge. Please back up what you are saying.

It seems as if though you are just passing off a (negative view) of scripture that has been passed down from generation to generation without any facts. Is this the case ?

If not, please give me just one of the suppossed many findings of conflicting or so called bad translations that would go against the nature of God or would or could possibly change the message.

Take Care !
Truth !





top topics
 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join