House votes to RESTRICT Patriot Act., page 1
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Topic started on 15-6-2005 @ 06:07 PM by ThatsJustWeird
Funny, this goes against what everyone's been bit-- er crying about.

www.washingtonpost.com...

House Votes to Limit Patriot Act Rules


WASHINGTON -- The House voted Wednesday to block the FBI and the Justice Department from using the anti-terror Patriot Act to search library and book store records, responding to complaints about potential invasion of privacy of innocent readers.

Despite a veto threat from President Bush, lawmakers voted 238-187 to block the part of the anti-terrorism law that allows the government to investigate the reading habits of terror suspects.

The vote reversed a narrow loss last year by lawmakers complaining about threats to privacy rights. They narrowed the proposal this year to permit the government to continue to seek out records of Internet use at libraries.

.......

Congress is preparing to extend the Patriot Act, which was passed quickly in the emotional aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Then, Congress included a "sunset" provision under which 15 of the law's provisions are to expire at the end of this year.


15 provisions to expire, limits on reach, etc.
What's going on??
How's the police state going to establish itself with all that going on!? This has to end.


reply posted on 17-6-2005 @ 02:48 PM by The Vagabond
A few points to answer:

1. The power to check library/bookstore records has proven completely useless in the war on terror for four years- and we have people here saying that this shows the legitimacy of that ability?! If in four years of grappling with Al Qaida we have not seen any case in which this tool is helpful, what is it doing for us except sitting around waiting for somebody to come along and abuse it later? By the way, I learned how to make explosives in 10th grade chemistry class- as will anyone who actually understands what he is being taught. If we're going to be paranoid and start surrendering our privacy whenever we seek knowledge for ourselves, perhaps we should consent to having our school children inteviewed by DoHS regularly.

2. How pray tell do you drastically speed the issuance of warrants? Is it not true that the majority of the time taken to get a warrant is consumed by the sometimes difficult task of proving probable cause? (Probable cause, not reasonable doubt West Point- reasonable doubt is what a jury decides after being shown the unconstitutionally obtained evidence that DoHS seizes under the authority of a rubber-stamped search warrant).

3. Although I have a huge problem with how politicized this issue has become, let's not pretend that the democrats are the only one's playing politics on this. If Democrat politicians hadn't established a pattern of making decisions on national security based on their desire to oppose all things Bush, AND if Republican politicians would offer their first loyalty to their constituents (I speak as a republican voter by the way) this would be an apolitical and bi-partisan effort to restrict the Patriot Act, because that act goes against everything this country was founded and made great upon.


4. Fine, they are going to leave our library books alone. I'm now curious what happens to some of the other provisions (such as the rubber-stamped warrants which really lay at the root of that particular problem anyway). My guess is that they hope tooffer us a buck with their right hand while stealing our wallet with their left.

5. Let's not forget that this is the House we are talking about. Wierd stuff is prone to happen there because all you have to do to get in is be the most popular person in your area code. We won't know for sure if this is a ploy, a fluke, or a legitimate effort to make positive changes until we see what happens in the senate and at the white house (of course the Veto threat is a hint at least there).


reply posted on 17-6-2005 @ 03:02 PM by Jakomo
ThatsJustWeird: Based on the fact that it targets the civil liberties of Americans, stifles any and all domestic political dissent, religious freedoms, and labor union activism and promotes the use of racial profiling as federal government policy?

That it makes it harder for citizens and legal aliens alike to review or appeal any perceived government wrongdoing. That it allows for the indefinite detention of suspected (SUSPECTED, not proven) aliens and domestic "terrorists", without probable cause of a crime, without a hearing and without any opportunity to defend or challenge the evidence against them, when they have not even been proven to be a threat and have already established a legal right to remain here.

And also that it allows the use of "secret evidence" and testimony in civil court proceedings.

Want more?

zmag.org...

It keeps judges out the process and lets cops do what they want (cops meaning FBI, CIA, etc.).

It minimizes judicial supervision of telephone and Internet surveillance by law enforcement authorities in anti-terrorism investigations and in routine criminal investigations unrelated to terrorism. Unrelated to terrorism—that means anything.

It expands the ability of the government to conduct secret searches—again in anti-terrorism investigations and in routine criminal investigations unrelated to terrorism.

It gives the Attorney General and the Secretary of State the power to designate domestic groups as terrorist organizations and block any non-citizen who belongs to them from entering the country. Under this provision the payment of membership dues is a deportable offense. That means, among other things, that Bush and Ashcroft can decide Greenpeace and Ralph Nader are terrorists, and under this law, it can put them in jail.

It grants the FBI broad access to sensitive medical, financial, mental health, and educational records about individuals without having to show evidence of a crime and without a court order. It means they can do what they want for no good reason, except to persecute and imprison people.

It could lead to large-scale investigations of American citizens for “intelligence” purposes and use of intelligence authorities to by-pass probable cause requirements in criminal cases.

It puts the CIA and other intelligence agencies back in the business of spying on Americans by giving the director of Central Intelligence the authority to identify priority targets for intelligence surveillance in the United States.

It allows searches of highly personal financial records without notice and without judicial review based on a very low standard that does not require probable cause of a crime or even relevancy to an ongoing terrorism investigation.

It creates a broad new definition of “domestic terrorism” that could sweep in people who engage in acts of political protest and subject them to wiretapping and enhanced penalties. This means they can jail anyone who disagrees with them, and keep them in jail for life without a trial.

It permits the detention of non-citizens facing deportation based on the Attorney General’s certification that he/she has “reasonable grounds to believe” the non-citizen endangers national security. While immigration or criminal charges must be filed within seven days, these charges need not have anything to do with terrorism, but can be minor visa violations of the kind that normally would not result in detention at all. Non-citizens ordered removed on visa violations could be indefinitely detained if they are stateless, their country of origin refuses to accept them, or they are granted relief from deportation because they would be tortured if they were returned to their country of origin.

It permits the Attorney General to indefinitely incarcerate or detain non-citizens based on mere suspicion, and to deny re-admission to the United States of non-citizens (including lawful permanent residents) for engaging in speech protected by the First Amendment.

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