U.S. Fines Woman for Being 'Human Shield'

Fury,

Well it is your choice.

You must be great at killing others then since you are in such support of it and haven't been caught yet. Unless of course you just support something that you're too afraid to actually do yourself.

How dare anyone judge her? She has the most courage and bravery than anyone on this site and probably most people online period. Just b/c you do not agree with her does not mean she is stupid. That is the very ignorance that causes war. A Lot of us wouldnt even have the guts to fly over there much less get off a plane and head towards the front lines to become a human shield. Then she lived to come home and talk about it? Oh hell no.....Stupidity maybe, but Bravery hell yes. I admire her courage. I'm scared of everything. I am stupid for being scared of lizards, but i am still scared of them and i dont know why. She was unafraid and nothing else matters.

Just to have a reaction from good ol' "GeeDubya" would have been satisfying enough for me. He seems as if he would like to place fear in all hearts of who disagrees with him, esp the iraqis. So seeing one of his own citizens marching fearlessly opposing his decision meant a lot more than being a delirious physical "shield" of flesh and stupidity.

Either you support the killing of others, or you support freedom to live.

look, a play right out of george bush's handbook. and so many bush bashers bashed him for this tactic. tsk tsk tsk!

you're either this or that.

wrong!

i support both. to some this makes no sense but what have i been saying? war doesnt make sense. life itself doesnt make sense!

all ive said was if there were laws and sanction in place and she violated them she should pay. beyond that i'm not making a judgement whether america or iraq is right or wrong.


i am a realist. i support the right to life but at the same time i eat meat. i believe in protecting my interests (myself, family, home, etc) with any means necessary, that includes killing someone if need be. life is not and never will be a walk through the park. its noble to try and stop suffering but there will always be mad men out there who bring this upon his own people. you cannot and must not simply let them be and leave them in power.

but this is now getting off topic.

she brokes some sanctions and laws, she pays the price, tough luck.

How dare anyone judge her? She has the most courage and bravery than anyone on this site and probably most people online period. Just b/c you do not agree with her does not mean she is stupid. That is the very ignorance that causes war.

Ok, now try setting aside your feelings for the war, and look at this from a legal standpoint, as this is a legal case. And yes, she will be judged, and BY a judge...that's kind of the point here, hehe...

She isn't stupid because I disagree with her. She isn't stupid for disagreeing with the war. She's stupid for breaking a law which has a maximum penalty of Death! She's stupid for aiding a declared enemy of her nation, and not expecting repercussions. She's stupid for thinking that she would be a human shield and stand in front of a school or something, when in reality, she relinquished (as did all such volunteers) her freedom of movement to Saddam, to be placed as he wished...legally making her an enemy combatant. How dare I judge her? Simple, I am judging her as a fellow citizen. We have this right here you see. She committed treason against our nation, regardless of her motivations, her act was treasonous. Yet, people feel she should suffer no repercussions for this? Amazing...simply amazing.

Originally posted by ThePrankMonkey

Originally posted by JustAnotherHologram

What do we do when our government ceases to consider public opinion?

lol poor thing.


the goverment stopped considering public opinion LONG before bush even though of running for president let alone BEEN president.


tsk tsk!

Ahh you assumed it is lack of awareness that prompted me to ask the question.
I asked the question to be considered as a whole... so What did people do in the past to be heard; what will they do in the future? I am well aware of political propaganda and blah blah blah, but that does not answer my question... If a woman who is willing to put her life on the line to stop war doesn't work, what will? Will the masses ever have an opinion that matters to the rulers of our world? How can we make them listen today? Can we? Hard questions to answer, but I think worth pondering....

-JAH

Originally posted by Gazrok

Playing human shield is a selfless act,but stupid,not treason.

I'll clarify.

Treason is aiding the enemy, is it not?

Becoming a human shield in front of a target, as a US citizen, helps ensure that the target (and since Saddam could deploy them wherever he wished, certainly it would be a military target) may not be hit, thus, it is a countermeasure against our military. This is aiding the enemy, is it not?

It would be helping the enemy IF the US policy planners gave a damn about humanitarian issues. As they were undeterred by the presence of human shields however, she didnt help the enemy .. no treason

I still think you're making it more complicated then it has to be.

It's not about eating meat either, unless you're eating people. Killing animals is a different topic.

Also the answer is either one or the other, you can't have both. It's not about Dubya being a mad man either, he may also be acting without thinking just the same as all the others.

But it is either one or the other. I personally want to live without being killed by anyone else, so to do my little part, I don't kill anyone else. If others feel the same way, then they should do the same. It's that easy. Those who want to kill for whatever reason, will kill everyone until they are the only ones left, or until they learn to be in support of life instead. That is the reality behind it. If you think there is more too it then you are still confused as which one to support that's all.

Do you think she really gives a rat's ass if she will be judged in Front of a judge? she just looked into death's face and stood in front of fear in iraq. I dont think she will care b/c it seem as though she might have died while she was over there. And who said she was not expecting repercussions? She might have but who knows for sure? I am not saying she is a god now, or that little kids should look UP to her, but i still admire her fearlessness. So i dont think she would care if she is sentenced. The whole judicial system is way too scandalous anyway. if you have money, you can buy your way out of almost anything, guilty as hell. and innocent people are sentenced all the time. I mean look at OJ, guilty as hell yet our trustworthy judicial system really found justice that day, huh? The courtroom is a masonic set of a play. So if they place her in a drawer labelled "Treasonous" I dont think she'll give a damn.

Originally posted by mOjOm
But it is either one or the other. I personally want to live without being killed by anyone else, so to do my little part, I don't kill anyone else. Those who want to kill for whatever reason, will kill everyone until they are the only ones left, or until they learn to be in support of life instead. That is the reality behind it.

Not logical. Unless you have a Death Wish.
You're basically saying that if somebody wants to kill you - then let them. And so should we.
The fact is that, even though we might not want to kill, there are people out there who will kill us. You're basically saying with that statement that we shouldn't defend ourselves.

Sorry buddy. Life doesn't work that way for the rest of us.

You know it is really disgraceful that anyone who shows a slightly right wing view is labelled by half this site as a horrible death dealing bastard. This exact garbage is why all the democrats running for president won't come close to beating bush in 04.
It really is annoying already that if someone disagrees, even a little bit, with a liberal opinion, they get crucified. Cut it out already. Surely the intelligence exists here to construct a proper argument without resorting to criticizing other people's lives in such a childlike manner.

i went to the link and that's the whole story? very short... but i also clicked on the posts/messages on this story and those people are so dumb and ignorant. i thought i would find some interesting opinions i could link to here, but all i found was "hang the liberal bitch", "Hitler was a better leader than GWB", and "Hang all american woman for being ugly, fat, and looking like camels asses" wow what a country i live in...

[Edited on 8-11-2003 by Isis Fibonacci]

Originally posted by mOjOm
I still think you're making it more complicated then it has to be.

It's not about eating meat either, unless you're eating people. Killing animals is a different topic.

Also the answer is either one or the other, you can't have both. It's not about Dubya being a mad man either, he may also be acting without thinking just the same as all the others.

But it is either one or the other. I personally want to live without being killed by anyone else, so to do my little part, I don't kill anyone else. If others feel the same way, then they should do the same. It's that easy. Those who want to kill for whatever reason, will kill everyone until they are the only ones left, or until they learn to be in support of life instead. That is the reality behind it. If you think there is more too it then you are still confused as which one to support that's all.

killing animals is different? arent they living things too? all things being relative life is life. like me you choose to give some life higher priority than others. others do the same thing. even presidents. some view it as wrong, others dont. its all a matter of perspective, isnt it???


YOU think its one or the other, but that doesnt make it so. i can choose both whether you like it or not. there is little you can do about it. its a choice we can all make, one or other, both or neither! thats the wonderful thing about free will, we can chose anyway we want, not how others want us to choose.'

i'm not overcomplicating anything, you're over simplifying something that have more than two answers to it.

...gee...she should move to New Zealand...

She wouldn't get treated like that here...many of us may not agree with what she did, but we wouldn't call for her to be fined, imprisoned, killed for treason or crap like that.

I think a rather widespread opinion in the US is that she should not be fined or imprisoned, but if she (or someone else performing the same action) got blown to little unrecognizable pieces, no one should complain about it.

Listen, people protest all the time. If I was annoyed about old russian minefields, I would come up with a better way to show my dismay than stepping on one of them Not so much common sense really.

Originally posted by mOjOm
Fury,

Well it is your choice.

You must be great at killing others then since you are in such support of it and haven't been caught yet. Unless of course you just support something that you're too afraid to actually do yourself.

Yep.
I must be great at killing others since i'm in total support of it. don'cha know i mass murder people every day for enjoyment. gives me an O face every time i pull the trigger.

actually I'm gonna stop participating in these stupid anti war liberal whiny circle jerks you guys all love to spin around in.

I'll just pop in from time to time to remind you what the reality of the world is, and guess what boys and girls, reality blows goats.

It's time to face those facts.

Leveller, Did I say not to defend yourself? No, I didn't.

Monkey, I said killing animals was a differnet topic. But if you want to include them it's fine with me. But I was talking about people, I thought I made that clear?
And yes, killing other people is a matter of perspective, which is what I was asking, and obviously you think it's ok and I don't. I'm glad you're going to do things whether I like it or not also, I never told you what to do in the first place. I asked if you think it's ok to kill other people or not. That is all, plain and simple! And yes you were making it complicated.
If you say, yes it's ok to kill people. That is your choice.
If you say, no it's not ok to kill people. Your choice.
But if you say both, because there are certain reasons, because of (put any reason here). Just admit you think it's ok to kill other people and stop trying to justify the act of doing it. And don't get mad at me either I'm just asking you a question to discuss a topic.

Fury, don't get pissed at me, you are the one who said it. Saying you must be cause all right wingers are nowadays.....If you weren't being serious say so. Sure I knew you were being sarcastic, but I was serious when asking the question. You gave a childish answer so I gave you one back, that's all.

I'm not trying to make anyone feel like they are being judged either. I am just trying to find out your choice about something and discuss the reasons why. Stop thinking I'm here to tell you that it's bad or good, or that it matters even if I do say it. Doesn't mean we can't talk about it or why.

Originally posted by mOjOm
Leveller, Did I say not to defend yourself? No, I didn't.


And yes, killing other people is a matter of perspective, which is what I was asking, and obviously you think it's ok and I don't.
If you say, yes it's ok to kill people. That is your choice.
If you say, no it's not ok to kill people. Your choice.
But if you say both, because there are certain reasons, because of (put any reason here). Just admit you think it's ok to kill other people and stop trying to justify the act of doing it.

Where the hell is the logic in there?


One second you say it's OK for me to kill in self defence and then you say it isn't OK to kill whatever the reason.

If you disagree, read the bloody quote. Those are your words - not mine.

I didn't say you couldn't defend yourself.
I didn't say you could.

I said I don't believe in killing any other person for any reason. That is how I feel. So if someone was going to kill me, I guess I would to find a way so that it didn't happen, besides killing him first. That's all.

Let me add, that I'm willing to discus if you can believe killing people is wrong but still do it under certain conditions, and not be going against what you believe.

But that should probably be a topic all on it's own.

[Edited on 11-8-2003 by mOjOm]

I say charge her with treason and sentence her.

Yes, this is an illegal war, but there are guidlines to the way you act toward a country you are supposed to be loyal to. I tell you, If I had been in the military and saw her, it would have been a civilian casualty of war. Call it collateral damage, population control, or removal of weaker intelligence. Either way, 10,000 buck is getting off easy.

I myself do not remember going into a contract,agreeing to be loyal to my country.Loyalty is earned not pledged.(but I do know there is an invisible contract too)(you have probably entered into several without realising it too).Tricksters they be.

The country I pledged allegiance to when I was young and naive is not what I thought it was.

Governments are supposed to protect their citizenry,and waltzing around the world,kicking @$$ is no way to protect the citizenry,since if there are mistakes made,the citizenry has to foot the bill,the money part and sometimes the ultimate price,and by the way,war is always a mistake.The politicians are not held accountable,if they are willing to go to war to support their policies,by all means,let em.But if it is that important to them let them fight it themselves.

It's just not business as usual when people get killed.

This woman was simply trying to make a point,and she was willing to lose her life in the process.

The government are the treasoners,if anyone is.This country used to be separatist,things were better then,that ended in 1913.

So here we are.............I frequently have differences with people over this in person,so I keep it to myself nowadays.This blind stupid-@$$ patriotism in the US will be it's undoing,But too many don't look beyond their TV set for the truth,and they won't find it there.

But I still think putting yourself in harms way was stupid,not treason.

She would have been putting her views to better use if she taught her students her views,instead of risking her life for them if she believed in them so much.But then she probably would get charged with treason!.


Socrates was executed for corrupting the young with logic and truth.....