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Patriot Act to crush political opposition?

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posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 03:34 PM
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The Patriot Act has a number of interesting powers built right in that could be abused. For one, it prevents those who have been questioned under the Patriot Act from revealing that questioning. The ACLU has been complaining about that portion of the Act because they filed a lawsuit against the Act, but can't talk about it publically because of the restrictions in the Patriot Act.

My question is this ... If the government were using the Patriot Act against people for political purposes, is there any way we could find out about it? FOIA doesn't apply. All the trials and hearings are in secret. Recent events clearly show that a big chunk of the judiciary is in the pockets of the politicians and the party, and they've been rubber stamping every request made to them under the Act. So if they were using the Patriot Act to haul off people who didn't agree with them, what options would the public have to discover the abuse and put a stop to it?




posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 03:57 PM
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Thats why everybody hates the act excape bushco and the FBI... this is sad... very sad, we need to do something about this but then again we all too lazy anyway...



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 04:00 PM
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What's that poem about how they come for everyone else, then they come for you?

That's what recent events remind me of. It's just waiting for the next shoe to drop ... Or the 'official' knock on the door for the trip to the camps.



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 06:32 PM
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Eventually some guy will decide that it is better to, if I may steal a quote from Mettalica - "Die on your feet for honesty, or die on your knees in conformity" and start taking "his home back". The it will be whether his friends and neighbors help him or turn their backs, if they do that ........



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 06:38 PM
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What is it about us (people) that makes us want to follow along behind someone regardless of where they're headed?

Isn't that what led Germany into the horrors of WWII?

Seems we never learn our lessons, we just keep repeating them over and over and over ....



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 08:43 AM
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wait wait, if the Patriot Act has existed for couple of years how come i see the Democrats all still alive?



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 11:24 AM
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wait wait, if the Patriot Act has existed for couple of years how come i see the Democrats all still alive?


IMO, it would not be used on those with a high profile. It would be used on those who could be quietly disappeared with no one the wiser.

Do you know who has ALREADY been apprehended under the Patriot Act and why? If not, shouldn't that concern you?



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by AWingAndASigh


wait wait, if the Patriot Act has existed for couple of years how come i see the Democrats all still alive?


IMO, it would not be used on those with a high profile. It would be used on those who could be quietly disappeared with no one the wiser.

Do you know who has ALREADY been apprehended under the Patriot Act and why? If not, shouldn't that concern you?


i still havent seen Hillary or Dean apprehended. Bush is they type of person who wants their heads u know.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 12:02 PM
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i still havent seen Hillary or Dean apprehended. Bush is they type of person who wants their heads u know.


Anyone who knows ANYTHING about politics knows that it's the people behind the scenes who have the real power.

Those are the people I would expect would be targeted. Anonymous, 'unimportant', and totally and completely capable of being disappeared.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by AWingAndASigh
Those are the people I would expect would be targeted. Anonymous, 'unimportant', and totally and completely capable of being disappeared.


well if Hillary or Dean disappears then i believe the Patriot Act is design to take down that type of opposition, but for now the only opposition i see taking down is Al Qaeda which has said Democracy is evil and must be annihilated.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by ulshadow
Thats why everybody hates the act excape bushco and the FBI... this is sad... very sad, we need to do something about this but then again we all too lazy anyway...


Everyone I know hates the ACLU. We really need to do something about them. They get their way through fear and intimidation.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 12:20 PM
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well if Hillary or Dean disappears then i believe the Patriot Act is design to take down that type of opposition, but for now the only opposition i see taking down is Al Qaeda which has said Democracy is evil and must be annihilated.


And the reason why totalitarian governments gain their power is the 'blindness' of their populace.

One should use caution with government. Reading anything written by the founding fathers teaches one that. Or don't you believe what they did, either? Do you ever wonder WHY we have the protections of our rights built into the Constitution?

I fail to see how fighting Al Qaeda's 'hatred of democracy' by destroying our own has any net benefit.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by AWingAndASigh
One should use caution with government. Reading anything written by the founding fathers teaches one that. Or don't you believe what they did, either? Do you ever wonder WHY we have the protections of our rights built into the Constitution?

I fail to see how fighting Al Qaeda's 'hatred of democracy' by destroying our own has any net benefit.



and wat rights are u talking about that makes u disgusted on. did the Government arrest u for cussing at them or somthing?



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 12:47 PM
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and wat rights are u talking about that makes u disgusted on. did the Government arrest u for cussing at them or somthing?


Let me quote a bit for you:



The First Amendment guarantees the freedom of worship, of speech, of the press, of assembly, and of petition to the government for redress of grievances.




The Fifth Amendment provides that no person shall be held for "a capital or otherwise infamous crime" without indictment, be twice put in "jeopardy of life or limb" for the same offense, be compelled to testify against himself, or "be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law."




The Sixth Amendment guarantees the right of speedy and public trial by an impartial jury in all criminal proceedings, while the Seventh Amendment guarantees the right of trial by jury in almost all common-law suits. Excessive bail, fines and "cruel and unusual" punishment are prohibited by the Eighth Amendment. The Ninth Amendment states that "The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."


education.yahoo.com...

Or, if you prefer the original:



The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the State where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any State, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Congress may by law have directed.
Section III

[1] Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.




No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.
Amendment VI

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.




All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


education.yahoo.com...

I prefer to uphold the Constitution. You can do whatever the heck you want (but don't expect me to think well of you for it).

And no - I've never been arrested or had any dealings with the law whatsoever, except to report crimes when necessary.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 12:50 PM
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then u shouldnt be complaining about the Patriot Act, u can cuss or spit or watever on yer government. u can burn the American flag. CIA aint gonna put a crosshair on yer head or yer family. the only people who would complain about the Patriot Act is the Al Qaeda since it annoys them that America is looking for them and terrorists dont like being bother while they plan to kill more Americans or other infidels.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 01:00 PM
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then u shouldnt be complaining about the Patriot Act, u can cuss or spit or watever on yer government. u can burn the American flag. CIA aint gonna put a crosshair on yer head or yer family. the only people who would complain about the Patriot Act is the Al Qaeda since it annoys them that America is looking for them and terrorists dont like being bother while they plan to kill more Americans or other infidels.


The problem is that governments can't be trusted with power. The founding fathers knew this, which is why they crafted the Constitution the way that they did.

You may trust the government to take away all your rights and make this a police state because they keep you 'safe' (although I'd argue that point) and maybe they'll give you your rights back when the crisis is over. If you want that kind of government, why not just move to Russia or China? Why recreate it here?

However, I DON'T trust the government not to abuse power because history shows that type of action is just too irresistable to those in charge. I have no desire to give them that kind of temptation, just hoping they won't succumb. Washington is so corrupt now that it makes me sick to look at what they do. So, you just want to hand them even MORE power and hope that they won't become MORE corrupt?

Have you ever heard that quote 'power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely?' Why do you think some historic person thought that up? Do you think human nature has fundamentally changed since then?

The founding fathers were right. We should adhere strictly to what they designed or risk losing everything.



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 01:22 PM
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.
The Bush Whitehouse revealed a covert CIA agent's real name for purely political reasons, and now we are supposed to trust them to be completely honest, while doing everyting in secret?

The Bush Whitehouse lied about rocket alumninum tubes supposedly being usable for centrifuges, and barred any employee of the DOE from telling the truth about it, Just because Bush and his buds wanted to go to war in Iraq.

Even if you have an administration you can trust, eventually you are going to have one you can't. Right now you can't even trust the current administration.
These Washington criminals have no business stealing American freedoms to spy on us, without at least getting a warrant from a judge.

The FBI was founded by that infamous blackmailer, J. Edgar Hoover.
The FBI is still fighting turf battles instead of protecting US citizens.
Now we want to give them a carte blanche to spy on American citizens with no checks and balances?

I sure the 'F' don't.

Are you aquainted with that other famous Republican, Richard Millhouse Nixon?
He was commiting crimes all over the place purely for political purposes. At least he got impeached for it.

In the heat of confusion after 911, congress passed this legislation Without even reading it! Now let cooler more logical heads prevail.

If there are a few ways of increasing the communications between agencies that would be good, but the REAL problem there is bureaucratic cultures and not laws.

Only traitors to American freedoms support the UNpatriot act.
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