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Children In Guantanamo

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posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 02:57 PM
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to the main page on BBC Nightline. The 'Children' that you talk about happened in the very beginning of the Iraq War, and the US has already released them a FEW years ago. STFU and get over it.




posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by CTID56092
www.unicef.org...

What article? I see none that have been broken.

Also, according to that convention, a child is anyone younger than 18. That hardly seems accurate.

It also notes

unless under the law applicable to the child, majority is attained earlier.

What is the age of majority in afghanistan? What is the age of majority for processing a person with murder and the like in the parts of the world that they were captured in?

You signed it but ignore it

The US has not ratified that protocol.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 02:58 PM
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Delta - it doesn't say you can't shoot children if it's a life / death choice. (and No I don't think I could but we don't know what we're capable of once in combat ....)

But it does say children can't be held as adults in an adult POW situation.

That's the first point.

The main point of the BBC story was that the Pentagon were lying to everyone about that aspect of the guantanamo operation



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by Jakomo

?!?! Do you have information that shows these kids were arrested while having explosives strapped to them? Does ANYONE other thanthe US military have this info?

If a 14 year old American child was arrested in, say, Moscow for threatening a Russian soldier and he was put in prison for 3 years without a trial or a lawyer or access to his family, what would be your position?

jako



www.worldnetdaily.com...

JERUSALEM – Israel last night arrested a West Bank teenager with a bomb belt tied around his waist on his way to commit a suicide attack, highlighting the continued violation by Palestinian terror organizations of a cease-fire agreement signed in February, security sources say.

Ahmed al-Nadi, 15, was apprehended near the West Bank city of Nablus after he was caught with the explosives. An Israeli Defense Forces spokeswoman said the boy intended to detonate his belt at a nearby checkpoint by igniting a crude detonator with a cigarette lighter.


let me try to find the picture of the boy as he was getting arrested with explosives around him, just give me a few minutes.

o yeah about an American kid using explosives, i dont dink so since we dont tell him that it could lead to paradise since most Americans are not Muslims.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by ferretman
to the main page on BBC Nightline. The 'Children' that you talk about happened in the very beginning of the Iraq War, and the US has already released them a FEW years ago. STFU and get over it.


The link's been updated since I posted.

news.bbc.co.uk...

There are kids locked up a junveniles that are still there. Their lawyer was on the programme! Was he lying?

You've illegally detained children in direct contravention of a UN convention you signed and ratified

You STFU (and GF!) and deal with it



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy


www.worldnetdaily.com...

JERUSALEM – Israel last night arrested a West Bank teenager with a bomb belt tied around his waist on his way to commit a suicide attack, highlighting the continued violation by Palestinian terror organizations of a cease-fire agreement signed in February, security sources say.

Ahmed al-Nadi, 15, was apprehended near the West Bank city of Nablus after he was caught with the explosives. An Israeli Defense Forces spokeswoman said the boy intended to detonate his belt at a nearby checkpoint by igniting a crude detonator with a cigarette lighter.


let me try to find the picture of the boy as he was getting arrested with explosives around him, just give me a few minutes.

o yeah about an American kid using explosives, i dont dink so since we dont tell him that it could lead to paradise since most Americans are not Muslims.


delta the US and Israel are still separate countries right? This post is about US prisoners not Israeli ones!

[edit on 17-6-2005 by CTID56092]

[edit on 17-6-2005 by CTID56092]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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here it is!!










"Abdo I: "'Blowing myself up is the only chance I've got to have sex with 72 virgins in the Garden of Eden,' a 14-and-a-half-year-old Palestinian boy told his Israeli investigators after being caught wearing an 8kg explosives belt.
Husam Muhammad Bilal Abdu from Masahiya neighborhood in Nablus was captured Wednesday afternoon by IDF troops near the Hawara roadblock near Nablus, the same place an 11-year-old boy was caught with a bomb last week.
"They told me that this was the only way, and they promised that my mother would get one hundred shekels if I did this," Husam told his captors.
The Fatah Tanzim claimed responsibility for sending the would-be bomber, Channel One reported Wednesday night."

watch.windsofchange.net...
poor kid.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 03:24 PM
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ferretman:

to the main page on BBC Nightline. The 'Children' that you talk about happened in the very beginning of the Iraq War, and the US has already released them a FEW years ago. STFU and get over it.


Stfu? Before you start cursing up storm, realize you're wrong.

www.theinsider.org...

Article written June 15, 2005


But British lawyer Clive Stafford-Smith, who returned from visiting clients in Guantánamo last week, claims that at least five people held there were taken to the camp after being arrested, despite being under 18 at the time.
One youth, 14 when detained in October 2001 in Pakistan, is still in US custody three-and-a-half years later...

..Mr Stafford-Smith said: "The treatment of adults in Guantánamo Bay is shocking enough. To see a juvenile being held in the worst camp, Camp Five, numbs me.

"He is held in solitary, allowed one hour of recreation a week, and he is not allowed any education or books of any sort.

"He has scars on his arm, he says caused by interrogators burning him with a cigarette, and prisoners are not allowed cigarettes. They have been abusing him on a daily basis.

"International law is clear that you have to treat juveniles differently."


The original source is the Guardian in the UK.

deltaboy: I asked you for proof of THESE kids in Gitmo, not some random Palestinian whackjob.


i dont dink so


No you sure don't.

Israel and the US are different countries. We're talking about Gitmo, not the terrorist IDF and Palestinian suicide bombers.


jako



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 03:26 PM
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umm these are examples children being used for suicide bombers, we release the kids in Gitmo because of pressure, and i guess some morons in the White House think dat they are just kids and harmless and probably think as they grow up they may change their minds about killing infidels.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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as posted by Gazrok
I can't believe this, but I'm agreeing with Jakomo on this one (sans his attacks on Nygan's position)... The US should NOT be in the business of detaining foreign children without a quick process of repatriation or returning to foreign authorities... There is a line, and if this is true, that line was crossed.


And I would totally disagree with both of you, and others.
If they were captured while fighting against US or Coalition combat units, then despite their age, they are captured POWS and combatants.

Let me guess, Jakomo, you, and others having a problem with this would expect US and Coalition troops to simply disarm these children, who were willingly firing at you--to kill--moments ago, spank them on the butts, and send them home so that tomorrow, they can then re-arm themselves and return to other insurgent or terrorist units to fight against US and Coalition forces? Okie dokie....





seekerof

[edit on 17-6-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 03:42 PM
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Like some one said they cab be 17 or 16 years old and they are still considered children? C'mon a 17 or 16 year old armed with a rifle or vest can do the same amount of damage as a grown man, there is not difference.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 03:46 PM
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Seekerof:

Let me guess, Jakomo, you, and others having a problem with this would expect US and Coalition troops to simply disarm these children, who were willingly firing at you--to kill--moments ago, spank them on the butts, and send them home so that tomorrow, they can then re-arm themselves and return to other insurgent or terrorist units to fight against US and Coalition forces? Okie dokie....


Nope. Call me crazy but I believe that IF they are terrorists, and the US government has enough evidence that they ARE terrorists that they feel they have the right to detain them for YEARS, maybe they could PROVE in a court of LAW that they are terrorists and, you know, charge them for the crime which they are being PUNISHED for?

Does this seem like too much of a stretch?


jako



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 03:46 PM
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There is a difference where 14 YO's are concerned - at least in the treaty you signed.

Still wondering if America's signature counts for anything!



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 03:50 PM
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If a 14 year old American child was arrested in, say, Moscow for threatening a Russian soldier and he was put in prison for 3 years without a trial or a lawyer or access to his family, what would be your position?


Jakomo raises an excellent point here...

Look, with the kid with the bomb, I'd have been all for sniping the idiot...but we don't have proof these other kids were in a similar situation. When it comes to kids, we should simply process them as quickly as possible, and be fully prepared to justify such detention. The answer to this is not to lower our own morals and standards, just because we're facing an enemy who targets civilians. If you're going to hold a kid, you better make damn sure he's a combatant, and be able to prove this to the world. The least you could do is formally charge the kid and provide a quick sentence.

Personally, I'd be more for a re-education and terrorist deprogramming center for these kids to be put through and then repatriated (personally with an unknown tracker chip in them, but that's just me), rather than have the reasons for their terrorism reinforced.

Maybe I'm just silly that way though....



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 03:55 PM
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I'll raise ya and call your bluff


Originally posted by CTID56092
There is a difference where 14 YO's are concerned - at least in the treaty you signed.



Care to direct link that "treaty" and what it says concerning children captured in combat, as combatants, cause be assured, I can provide a host of links to articles detailing children and minors being enlisted, forced, and used as combatants and terrorists. Thank you.



seekerof

[edit on 17-6-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 04:30 PM
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Happy to help. Not a treaty, a convention as you pointed out.

full text of convention

www.unicef.org... - article 40 in particular seems germane

Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child on the involvement of children in armed conflict

www.unicef.org...

US signed them but now sees fit to break them AFAICS



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 04:40 PM
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Links are great ain't they?
Still not seeing the mention concerning children and minors as combatants....you?


As for links to justify my own stance:
Iraq's insurgent children learn how to become killers
Disabled child in suicide attack
Jehad: A child's play in Pak
'You boys you are the seeds from which our great President Saddam will rise again'
Soldier faces grim reality of war
AP: Gitmo Teens Say Taliban Stole Youth
Saddam trains kids to kill: 8,000-strong army of children ready to take on U.S. forces

Personally, children and minors want to play with the big boys, they get treated like the big boys. No spanking them on the butt and sending them home.





seekerof



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 04:48 PM
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The convention clearly states that signatories have a requirement to treat children differently than adults. Your Army Brass have admitted this isn't so. The kid's lawyer says it isn't so.

So you signed it with the intention of breaking it? or you signed it and then 'changed your mind'?

Jakomo - good point re moral collapse. Agree it's a damning indictment.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by CTID56092


The convention clearly states that signatories have a requirement to treat children differently than adults. Your Army Brass have admitted this isn't so. The kid's lawyer says it isn't so.

So you signed it with the intention of breaking it? or you signed it and then 'changed your mind'?

Jakomo - good point re moral collapse. Agree it's a damning indictment.


we sign it to treat innocent children with dignity, not children heavily armed. lets see wat u can do against a child with an ak-47 assault rifle and tell me how it feels.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 05:05 PM
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I suppose that when you read this [quoted below], you did not read on?


Encouraged by the overwhelming support for the Convention on the Rights of the Child,1 demonstrating the widespread commitment that exists to strive for the promotion and protection of the rights of the child,

Reaffirming that the rights of children require special protection, and calling for continuous improvement of the situation of children without distinction, as well as for their development and education in conditions of peace and security


Might want to read on. They are getting treated for what they are: combatants/POWs, if they are or have been classified as such. They are being held in a detention facility. The "war" on terrorism is not over. They will not be released till then, period, if they are classified as enemy combatants, thus POWs. I suppose, having said it twice already, you, as with others, would simply dis-arm them, smack them on the butt and send them home, eh? Please, by all means, enlighten those of us who wish to know, how would you treat children and minors that are classified as enemy combatants? Set them free? Not likely. Being that children and minors have been in combat for thousands of years, personally, they are lucky they are getting the treatment that they are. Ask Saddam.





seekerof



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