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Chemtrails Don't Exist? Haha, Explain This.

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posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 01:37 PM
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Jra says:


Could some one explain to me how one can spray Aluminium powder and the Barium Oxide. And could some one explain the science of how this helps to make clouds? Seriously. I'd like to know.


I’d like to know, too! Actually one of the things that even the most dedicated “chem-trail” believer should be able to blow off is the “Aluminum powder and Barium Oxide sprayed in to the air” hoax. Why? Well, both aluminum and barium are very reflective to radar (indeed, aluminum chaff, dropped from aircraft, was first used in World War II to confuse enemy radar).

If there were any aluminum powder sprayed into the sky, it would light up like a neon sign in the evening when the setting sun hits it, and (more importantly) it would show up like HUGE lines covering the sky in all those Doppler weather radar sites you see all over the Internet.

Of course, contrails don’t show up on radar, which pretty much eliminates the whole idea of aluminum powder and barium compounds. I mean, I understand that many “chem-trail” believers are not that familiar with science, but I thought everyone knows about aluminum and radar!!

mclarenmp4 says:


The picture above is taken from this site which has quite interesting information about the existence of chemtrails. www.lightwatcher.com...


This is what the site mclaren cites says:


For the past few years investigators and researchers have been searching for hard evidence on the elusive phenomena of chemtrail spraying. If one searches GoogleNews for articles on chemtrails in (with 4500 periodicals represented) not one article will be found. There is simply no coverage on this topic in the mainstream media.

Imagine our surprise when we discovered extensive proof of government involvement, funding, sponsorship, multidisciplinary research, policy making and implementation of global atmospheric modification under the classification of 'Geoengineering.' This is the chemtrail smoking gun we have been looking for.


Except that it’s not. The article talks about geo-engineering, which is how we can change the climate of the Earth by artificial means.

And there’s nothing odd about that; we have been doing geoengineering (sometimes deliberately, sometimes not) for years. In particular, our releasing of CFCs, CO2, and other greenhouse gases seem to be having a negative effect on both weather and climate, and certainly should be addressedon!

But that’s not what “chem-trails” are supposed to be. As a matter of fact, there’re nothing in any of the citations about ‘chem-trails’. It’s as if someone reads an article about crop dusting or aircraft slurry-bombing a forest fire, then running around saying, “SEE!!??? I TOLD you there was this HUGE PLOT to spray us all with chem-trails, and this story about crop dusting PROVES IT! WAAAAAAAA!!!”

But of course it doesn’t prove anything LOL!

Awingandasigh says


Didn't Clinton talk for a while about some plan to use chemtrails to reduce global warming? I can't remember any details, but I seem to remember the very brief discussion on it.


Perhaps you’re thinking about U.S. representative Dennis Kucinich, who introduced a bill into congress several years back banning space weapons, and ‘chem-trails’. When he was asked just what these ‘chem-trails’ were, he ended up admitting that he hadn’t really written the bill, his staff did, and they got their words from a local ‘chem-trail’ lobbyist in Kucinich’s Ohio district. Most of Kucinich’s stuff dies in committee, given his somewhat … exotic … political beliefs. You can get the full story on Kucinich’s shenanigans at www.abovetopsecret.com...

billybob says:

however, the contrails of today are much more persistant than the contrails of yesterday. i noticed the change in contrails post nine oneone, when i noticed a bunch of other stuff, too, like illuminati symbolism and banking cartels. and when i searched the internet, i found hundreds of others had also noticed them years before.


I don’t understand. You say contrails became more persistent after 9/11, and yet you say that hundreds of other people had noticed the increased persistence years before. Which one is it?

Or are you talking about hundreds of people have noticed the illuminati symbolism and banking cartels being more persistent?

apc says:


I would readily propose an explanation of being caused by a rise in supersaturation, quite possibly a result of global warming or other environmental/climatic changes.


that explanation makes a lot more sense to me, as well.

In addition, over the past twenty years, we’ve retired almost all our turboprop commuters and switched to small jets from Canada or Brazil; these planes fly higher (where there is mor chance of the temperature and humidity being in the “contrail persistence envelope”.




posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by Off_The_Street

billybob says:

however, the contrails of today are much more persistant than the contrails of yesterday. i noticed the change in contrails post nine oneone, when i noticed a bunch of other stuff, too, like illuminati symbolism and banking cartels. and when i searched the internet, i found hundreds of others had also noticed them years before.


I don’t understand. You say contrails became more persistent after 9/11, and yet you say that hundreds of other people had noticed the increased persistence years before. Which one is it?

Or are you talking about hundreds of people have noticed the illuminati symbolism and banking cartels being more persistent?



yes. even the contrails are starting to notice the banking cartels. luckily, the symbolism is noticing the contrails noticing the banking cartels. as is usual, the illuminati banking cartels are noticing everything.

i noticed post 911. after i noticed, i did a web search and found all the chemtrail sites. other people had noticed in the 90's.

i can only hope that people noticing symbolism and banking cartels will become VERY persistent.

THANK YOU! COME AGAIN!


jra

posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by billybob
yes. even the contrails are starting to notice the banking cartels. luckily, the symbolism is noticing the contrails noticing the banking cartels. as is usual, the illuminati banking cartels are noticing everything.


That makes no sense to me what so ever. How does a contrail, frozen vapour, notice something? It's not sentient. Same with symbolism. Unless i'm missing something...



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by billybob
yes. even the contrails are starting to notice the banking cartels. luckily, the symbolism is noticing the contrails noticing the banking cartels. as is usual, the illuminati banking cartels are noticing everything.


I don't get it either, but I like it



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
the part that is interesting is where it says that aluminum powder and other products are sprayed from COMMERCIAL airlines and private planes into jetstream...
Oh yeah. Gotta love that! I mean, private planes are always flipping around in the jets stream, ya know.... I mean, the jet stream is only about three or four times too high for a private plane to reach, but what the hell, they still reach it, right?

Oh dear... I guess they never thought of that....

And I'm wondering just where on a commercial airliner would you keep a tank big enough to spray a trail or aluminium powder that is a hundred feet feet thick, a hundred feet wide, and a thousand miles long.... If the tank were big enough to hold that much aluminium powder, then where would you put the passengers, the cargo, and the fuel...?

Oh dear.... somebody forgot that minor point.

Not to mention that if you loaded a plane with that much aluminium powder, it would be far too heavy to ever take off in the first place.

Oh dear... I guess they never thought of that, either.

Isn't it amazing how easy it is to debubk these kook theories, with just a bit of common sense?



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by Off_The_Street
In addition, over the past twenty years, we’ve retired almost all our turboprop commuters and switched to small jets from Canada or Brazil; these planes fly higher (where there is mor chance of the temperature and humidity being in the “contrail persistence envelope”.


Very true. Over teh same time period, we have replaced pretty much all the old pure-jet engines with far more efficient high-bypas turbo-fan engines, which tend to produce copiuos contrails due to the EGT being lower and slower, and the fuel burn itself being more complete, thus producing more water per unit volume. A modern high-bypass turbofan engine will routinely produce around 1.5 to 2 pounds of water for every pound of fuel burned.

Also, over the same 20 year period, total air traffic has nearly tripled in volume. With multiple planes simultansously flying each airway, the chances are much greater that any given airway will exhbit contrails.

Of ccourse, one could not expect the chemkooks to every manage to figure this out on their own. Nor to believe it, even when it is placed right in tfront of them. The proof of this is the manic flurry of denials and flames that will shortly follow this post.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by jra

Originally posted by billybob
yes. even the contrails are starting to notice the banking cartels. luckily, the symbolism is noticing the contrails noticing the banking cartels. as is usual, the illuminati banking cartels are noticing everything.


That makes no sense to me what so ever. How does a contrail, frozen vapour, notice something? It's not sentient. Same with symbolism. Unless i'm missing something...


it wasn't supposed to make sense, sherlock. it's humourous.
howard's spreading my love and wisdom. thanks, howard.


[edit on 16-6-2005 by billybob]


jra

posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 03:56 AM
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Originally posted by billybob
it wasn't supposed to make sense, sherlock. it's humourous.


Well sometimes it's hard to tell if some one's trying to be funny or is just plain crazy on this site.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by StuartAllsop

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
the part that is interesting is where it says that aluminum powder and other products are sprayed from COMMERCIAL airlines and private planes into jetstream...
Oh yeah. Gotta love that! I mean, private planes are always flipping around in the jets stream, ya know.... I mean, the jet stream is only about three or four times too high for a private plane to reach, but what the hell, they still reach it, right?

And I'm wondering just where on a commercial airliner would you keep a tank big enough to spray a trail or aluminium powder that is a hundred feet feet thick, a hundred feet wide, and a thousand miles long.... If the tank were big enough to hold that much aluminium powder, then where would you put the passengers, the cargo, and the fuel...?

Not to mention that if you loaded a plane with that much aluminium powder, it would be far too heavy to ever take off in the first place.



yeah, the goverment assigned scientific body that was commissioned by congress obviously forgot alot of considerations when drawing up this "only option" to counteract global warming...
don't forget man... this plan ain't from the kooks... it is from the government (well. ok, so they are kooks also)
and it is THE PLAN... not a plan, not one plan... it is "THE PLAN"...
and according to the one inside source that has spoke of it,(who is now dead)
the begining testing hasn't worked very well...
he doubts they will continue testing...

and since it is disclosed that it is NOT being used on commercial flights yet, and that when it is, it will only be with common knowledge of the public,
I guess everyone can stop claiming that it is already in use... (except by the military, aboard specially made planes)

Oh, and sorry for the misnomer of jetstream...
I meant troposphere...

which is where these materials suspended in artificial "polymer webs" will persist longer than if they were dispensed as powder only...
(*see mold inhibitors for biologic polymers in above link)

jeessss. doesn't anyone read the links anymore...
they can be rather educational and even debunk a lot of the various chaff about "increasing amount of persistance in contrails"= CHEMTRAILS=BUNK

I can tell you... if you think you have seen these true "chemtrails" then you are actually pretty lucky... go buy a lottery ticket... becuase according to the "insider" these are not widespread, but in small test areas...(over sparse populations)

the radar aluminum thing still bothers me though...
OTS is absolutley right... it would glow like crazy...

IMO that when they decide if this process works and is actually implemented, then they will have to disclose it to the public, becuase they couldn't keep it a secret.

BTW: this doesn't include the many other cloud seeding, and other experiments" that are also not really chemtrails, since they are disclosed tests utilizing understood materials with predictable effects



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 01:29 PM
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i don't have a problem with the radar thing. contrails always had a tendency to last for up to a few hours, in RARE ideal conditions. so, it's not like what your're seeing when you see these persistant contrails is 100% chemical. it would only require a TINY bit of EXTRA particulates, on top of the soot from jet fuel, to help the clouds form. if it was aluminum or barium, it could be in low enough concentrations, that it will neither erode jet engines flying through it, nor show up on radar. however, the aluminum/barium thing could be a disinfo red herring. ...

this geoengineering plan is proof that the government has this as a potential progam, at the very least. it does not exclude the possibility of other further studies and patents and programs based on the same principals and goals.

like someone said. all the jet fuel is ultimately coming from ONE COMPANY. it wouldn't be hard for them to have a system where something is added to some storage tanks. i can't believe people would think that that's hard or impossible.
it is also not impossible for anyone to lease commercial jets. they could be landed at military bases and refueled. according to the patent, even reducing the efficiency of the engine(noticing that's REDUCED efficiency, my jetheaded buddies) would add more nuclei to the exhaust, which would INCREASE the size and persistance of the contrails.

oh yeah, and an illuminati ate my homework.



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by billybob
contrails always had a tendency to last for up to a few hours, in RARE ideal conditions.



No, not all that rare.

The primary factor in determining how long a contrail will persist is the relative humidity, or more precisely, the relative humidity with respect to ice (RH-ice).

If the RH-ice is less than 100%, then the contrail will eventually dissipate. However, if the RH-ice is over 100%, you have a condition known as supersaturation. Recent atmospheric research has shown that ice supersaturated regions (ISSR) of the upper atmosphere are much more common than previously suspected. LIDAR data indicates that ISSR can be present as much as 40% of the time.

www.pa.op.dlr.de...



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by billybob

like someone said. all the jet fuel is ultimately coming from ONE COMPANY. it wouldn't be hard for them to have a system where something is added to some storage tanks. i can't believe people would think that that's hard or impossible.
it is also not impossible for anyone to lease commercial jets. they could be landed at military bases and refueled.


I should clarify what I meant I guess…

I did not mean all Jet fuel comes from one company. What I was trying to show was the profit in pumping fuel in one small station, here in Tampa, allowed one small company to basically get a monopoly over the fuel for almost a quarter of the state. I cannot speak for other states or other large cities such as Miami, for example. The point I was making is that the storage, pumping and distribution of a substance, Jet-A in this instance, was a high volume, high cost, high profit industry and that having to pump an equivalent amount of another chemical onto an aircraft would have similar volume, cost, and profit.

As far as leasing commercial airliners goes, it is a common thing, and would not surprise me to find out that there are numerous commercial airliners on lease to the government at any one time. When we went to Panama, I know for a fact that many troops were flown there on chartered commercial flights, because I worked on some. My station manager had told me many stories of being a civilian on lease to the government in Guam during Vietnam, with a fleet of commercial aircraft under lease by the CIA. So this is very possible.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 11:30 AM
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You can say anything you want about Pravda.. doesn't mean everything they say is B.S. ... the events that they mention were talked about in detail in other papers like during the Paul McCartney concert when they tried to pull this off... so I don't think this is a big secret anymore that this is going on .. and personally I think that the big announcment is coming soon, that its been an ongoing project... EITHER THAT.. or they'll just slowly leak it like they seem to be doing... now apparently the pilots are allowed to say that it IS weather manipulation apparently according to certain members word.

english.pravda.ru...

Pravda announced that the Russian airforce does this. But we are to believe that the US is NOT for some reason ALSO doing this right?

We're all nuts and none of us understand basic science that causes the condensation to hang in the air ALL FREEKING DAY forming a thin layer of water vapour (which looks more like a chemical haze) across the sky?

Except for the fact that there now seems to be more evidence supporting our theories then ever... in fact..


THERE IS NOW NO QUESTION that modern air forces can lay down a chemical mass in the air as a trail behind their planes so that they can manipulate the weather...

THERE IS NO QUESTION OF THIS ANYMORE HOWARD ROARK, AND BILLYBOB!


So why do you two so ademently deny that this is happening, still?


What makes you think THAT YOU KNOW FOR A FACT that the US is ALSO not engaged in this type of activity?


Why are YOU SO SURE... in the face of this type of evidence THAT IT IS NOT happening? Why do you think THAT ALL OF US ARE JUST SO STUPID that we can not tell the differene between NORMAL contrails (and normal airtraffic) and SOMETHING ELSE being sprayed behind a plane?????


What about the people who have TRIED to do research in to this phenomina and been blocked out of obtaining information on the SIMPLEST of data (like WHOS planes were above WHOS community at a certain time)?


C'Mon guys.. enough is enough.. we know you are here SIMPLY to put down anyone who talks about Chemtrails... and I'm really tired of it.


And your true reasons for posting here are starting to show.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by Vis Mega


THERE IS NO QUESTION OF THIS ANYMORE HOWARD ROARK, AND BILLYBOB!




hey, howard. we're on the same team, now! what happened?

you better go read all the chemtrail threads, again, vis. i think you have me confused with someone else.



posted on Jun, 24 2005 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by Vis Mega
like during the Paul McCartney concert when they tried to pull this off... so I don't think this is a big secret anymore that this is going on .. and personally I think that the big announcment is coming soon, that its been an ongoing project... EITHER THAT.. or they'll just slowly leak it like they seem to be doing... now apparently the pilots are allowed to say that it IS weather manipulation apparently according to certain members word.

english.pravda.ru...

The Russians love their cloud seeding. It certainly isn't a secret, as they tell you about it on the news. I was in Moscow for spring last year, and in the days before the May celebrations they seed the clouds in an attempt to make it rain. The idea being that it will then be a nice blue sky for the day itself. I actually saw the planes out doing this. LISTEN TO ME - IT DOES NOT LEAVE A PERSISTANT TRAIL! Or any trail at all. The spray the stuff INTO THE CLOUDS.



Pravda announced that the Russian airforce does this. But we are to believe that the US is NOT for some reason ALSO doing this right?

I'm sure they do some cloud seeding in US ski resorts.



We're all nuts and none of us understand basic science that causes the condensation to hang in the air ALL FREEKING DAY forming a thin layer of water vapour (which looks more like a chemical haze) across the sky?

Well it certainly looks like you can't (or won't) grasp some very basic science. In what way does a "chemical haze" look different from a "haze" of ice crystals?



THERE IS NOW NO QUESTION that modern air forces can lay down a chemical mass in the air as a trail behind their planes so that they can manipulate the weather...

Yes, they could seed clouds, though it doesn't leave any trail.



THERE IS NO QUESTION OF THIS ANYMORE HOWARD ROARK, AND BILLYBOB!

Are you quite sure you mean billybob? If you can't even get this fact straight....



So why do you two so ademently deny that this is happening, still?

Deny what is happening?



What makes you think THAT YOU KNOW FOR A FACT that the US is ALSO not engaged in this type of activity?

What evidence do you have that the US military is leaving chemical trails in the sky?



Why are YOU SO SURE... in the face of this type of evidence THAT IT IS NOT happening? Why do you think THAT ALL OF US ARE JUST SO STUPID that we can not tell the differene between NORMAL contrails (and normal airtraffic) and SOMETHING ELSE being sprayed behind a plane?????

I think it is the other way round. I think you are stupid because you think that persistant contrails are "chemtrails" without any evidence.



What about the people who have TRIED to do research in to this phenomina and been blocked out of obtaining information on the SIMPLEST of data (like WHOS planes were above WHOS community at a certain time)?

Such as?





And your true reasons for posting here are starting to show.

And these are....?



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 06:40 PM
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i know they exist...i wish people would wake up and see whats going on and what the GOVERNMENT is really up to....they are liers...and just heading us to the NWO



posted on Jun, 29 2005 @ 11:10 PM
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You're a fine one to talk about lyin' -- with a name like Simba!

LOLOLOLOL!!



posted on Jun, 30 2005 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by Off_The_Street
You're a fine one to talk about lyin' -- with a name like Simba!

LOLOLOLOL!!


**Groan** That is just terrible

mods - isn't punning against site rules? It should be. OTS should be, at the very least, banned for that



posted on Jun, 30 2005 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke

I'm sure they do some cloud seeding in US ski resorts.


I think it is the other way round. I think you are stupid because you think that persistant contrails are "chemtrails" without any evidence.



Well... I can tell you from personal experience that they cloud seed in Oklahoma all the time... skiing in Oklahoma... WHOO HOO... there is nothing like skiing down those waving plains of "WHEAT"....
I get all of 1 mph when the wind blows...

and be nice... Stupid is a strong word...
ignorance is much more accurate... and forgiveable...
glass houses...stones...all that....



posted on Oct, 19 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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How come that always when a thread about chemtrails or any other real conspiracy theory WITH SOME BACKING comes along, every second post breaks the rules of RESPECT and NO 1-LINERS? I'm referring to posts that includes stuff like "HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH" or "Yea, I see your point but have you considered this; F*CK YOU!"-type of things.

If you really don't know, why say "No, it's contrails"? WHY? You simply don't have any idea or anything to support it, as I can't support any claims I make about a metaphysical reality. But I can tell you that there is one, because I have been there and so have many of the scientists in the field and many close friends of mine. But, I can't prove #.

Consider this vid



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