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# Permenant Magnet motor

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posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 02:07 AM

Originally posted by postings
Does anyone know of any ferrous (I believe I have the correct term there) that are really good at expressing magnetic flux when in the presence of strong magnetic flux, but imediately loosing that expression once removed from the flux.

Nother way to put it . . . You put a paper-clip near a strong magnet. The paperclip becomes attracted to the magnet, and clings to it. Anything ferrous material that this paperclip comes into contact with will be attracted to the paperclip (if not the magnet). Remove the paperclip from the magnet, and separate the two, and the paperclip will still have traces of a magnetic field.

I think I understand what you are saying.

The problem is that now you simply have two magnets. And if a "Ferrous" magnet losses it's " Flux" then you just now have one magnet, the one you started with.

The problem is with magnets themselves. While there are two opposite forces that we think of as opposing eachother , Magnets do no exert force.

All forces exerted are equaled and opposed by opposite forces.

In other words you can put any number of magnets together and all you end up with is one Big magnetic field. And Magnetic fields alone exert no force that can do work.

posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 02:51 PM

Originally posted by lost_shaman
I think I understand what you are saying.

The problem is that now you simply have two magnets. And if a "Ferrous" magnet losses it's " Flux" then you just now have one magnet, the one you started with.

That's exactly what I want. I am looking for some kind of material that will do this very efficiently. Ferrous materials (like iron) can obtain a magnetic field when in the presence of a magnet, but then quickly give it up when when the magnet is removed.

Try this: find a paperclip a strong magnet, and a really small screw, preferably one as small as the one used in eye-glasses. Now unbend the paperclip so that part of it is still shaped like a paper-clip, and the rest is a pointed rod (a likely crooked one at that).

As it is, you should not be able to pick up the screw with the paperclip as it is not a magnet, and has no magnetic flux. Now attach the paperclip to the magnet letting the rod protrude away from the magnet quite a bit (you don't want the screw to attract to the magnet itself). You should be able to pick up the screw with the paperclip now.

Okay, now remove the paperclip from the magnet slowly (with the screw still attracted to the paperclip), and set the magnet asside. Notice that the screw still hangs there for a while? That is because the paperclip still retains some of the magnetic flux of the magnet.

That is bad. I want to find a material that will retain as little of that flux as possible when the magnet is removed, and acquire it as quickly and efficiently as possible when a magnet is near. Does that make better sense?

-P

posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 05:13 PM
Yes but howcome? sorry if you've already said i didnt notice.

Oh and perendev has supposed to have developed a new design for a PMG.

posted on Dec, 30 2005 @ 10:26 PM
The problem is that the idea I have is difficult to express in words, and I simply don't have the patience to build a model using CAD to better explain it.

I would think something like neodymium (that hasn't already been magnetized) would be a good choice, but the key is whether it will loose flux right away when it isn't under the influence of a magnetic field.

-P

Yes but howcome? sorry if you've already said i didnt notice.

Oh and perendev has supposed to have developed a new design for a PMG.

posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 05:07 PM
Well I have relented, and am building a model using a modeling program called "blender." Been pretty difficult though. Anyone here use Blender?

-P

posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 05:34 PM
postings:

what you are looking for is a material with an extremely low "hysteresis" in its magnetization curve but still posessing strong magnetization like a ferromagnetic material.

The magnetization curve is the plot of induced magnetization (i.e. macroscopic alignment of spins in the atoms of the material) as a function of the external magnetic field.

Hysteresis is the how much the material remembers the past "history" of the applied external field, e.g. if it still retains some magnetization. It would probably account for energy losses in some applications.

I am sure such a thing exists and is probably known in motor and transformer engineering, but I don't know the specifics.

here is something I found with google.
www.key-to-steel.com...

Also a product name, "Stelloy".

There are many specific details to balance, magnetic permeability, maximum magnetization (saturation), frequency response, temperature sensitivity, etc.

posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 06:48 PM

Originally posted by lost_shaman
In other words you can put any number of magnets together and all you end up with is one Big magnetic field. And Magnetic fields alone exert no force that can do work.

Well magnetic fields do in fact do work as is clear by the energy expenditure. In classical science it is said that magnets do not work as there is no logical explanation for why they can do so with no clearly described energy "source" from wich to draw. Saying magnets do no work is throwing the conservation of energy law right out the window and i really see no reason to do that just yet.

Anyways!

Stellar

posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 09:44 PM
INTERESTING! Thank you VERY much mbkennel for this information. This should take me in the right direction.

-p

Originally posted by mbkennel
postings:

what you are looking for is a material with an extremely low "hysteresis" in its magnetization curve but still posessing strong magnetization like a ferromagnetic material.

The magnetization curve is the plot of induced magnetization (i.e. macroscopic alignment of spins in the atoms of the material) as a function of the external magnetic field.

Hysteresis is the how much the material remembers the past "history" of the applied external field, e.g. if it still retains some magnetization. It would probably account for energy losses in some applications.

I am sure such a thing exists and is probably known in motor and transformer engineering, but I don't know the specifics.

here is something I found with google.
www.key-to-steel.com...

Also a product name, "Stelloy".

There are many specific details to balance, magnetic permeability, maximum magnetization (saturation), frequency response, temperature sensitivity, etc.

posted on Jan, 10 2006 @ 11:03 PM
This is about the time during the show that I call on those doing the research to post their work and their math. Or at least give a good estimate as to when they will/should have this finished and complete for submission here to the topic.

posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 05:33 PM
Ok so we've all discussed the possibilities, designs, hoaxes, etc.

How to we make the motor (aka the spinning device powered by magnets) useful, aka generate electricity.

Ive looked over a few bits of info about electrical generation, but to be honest there not that great.

Any info on generation of electricity through motion, that we can easily replicate or modify?

posted on Jan, 12 2006 @ 11:57 PM

Any info on generation of electricity through motion, that we can easily replicate or modify?

Moving bodies create electrostatic force. Rub your feet while wearing socks across the surface of a carpet and touch a metal surface. The human generator!

posted on Jan, 13 2006 @ 04:12 AM

Any info on generation of electricity through motion, that we can easily replicate or modify?

Well a generator is essentially the same as an electric motor, but instead of using electricity to generate motion, you use motion to generate electricity - just reversing the process. The technology is the same. So you may be able to adapt a cheap electrical motor to do the job, and they would only cost a few dollars to mess around with.

To generate current you must rotate a copper wire between the 2 poles of a stationary magnet (or rotate the magnet round, or near, the copper wire). This is the most easy to build design I could find:

www.creative-science.org.uk...

How you want to generate your motion is another thing. Rotating a wheel using pedal power would seem one of the most practical, and nuclear energy may draw attention from the UN etc
If you want to generate your electricity using only magnets, then your luck is out - as this is physically impossible. I am aware that others on this thread disagree with me and say magnets can draw "power from the vacuum" etc, but you might have noticed that they can't offer a single piece of practical advice on how you might acieve this.

posted on Jan, 13 2006 @ 09:34 AM
Thanks for that, i had a skim read of it, it seems obvious to me now lol "just reverse the process"!

After looking into it i realised this is what happens in a hydro-electric plant (hydro-dam). As shown byhowstuffworks.com's info.

Dam - Most hydropower plants rely on a dam that holds back water, creating a large reservoir. Often, this reservoir is used as a recreational lake, such as Lake Roosevelt at the Grand Coulee Dam in Washington State.

Intake - Gates on the dam open and gravity pulls the water through the penstock, a pipeline that leads to the turbine. Water builds up pressure as it flows through this pipe.

Turbine - The water strikes and turns the large blades of a turbine, which is attached to a generator above it by way of a shaft. The most common type of turbine for hydropower plants is the Francis Turbine, which looks like a big disc with curved blades. A turbine can weigh as much as 172 tons and turn at a rate of 90 revolutions per minute (rpm), according to the Foundation for Water & Energy Education (FWEE).

Generators - As the turbine blades turn, so do a series of magnets inside the generator. Giant magnets rotate past copper coils, producing alternating current (AC) by moving electrons. (You'll learn more about how the generator works later.)

Transformer - The transformer inside the powerhouse takes the AC and converts it to higher-voltage current.

posted on Jan, 13 2006 @ 02:27 PM
I have a coupla designs, but I am still learning how to model them using a 3d Modeling program. I didn't want to do that initially,but it seems like it is a "necessary evil" if I ever hope to share my idea in a way that is comprehensible.

-P

Ok so we've all discussed the possibilities, designs, hoaxes, etc.

How to we make the motor (aka the spinning device powered by magnets) useful, aka generate electricity.

Ive looked over a few bits of info about electrical generation, but to be honest there not that great.

Any info on generation of electricity through motion, that we can easily replicate or modify?

posted on Jan, 13 2006 @ 03:53 PM
I say, go for it, if you ever have to do a presentation it would help to have a clean, 3d model. Not saying anything to you personally, but prototypes do tend to be a little, scruffy, due to lack of funds etc so CAD designs are useful.

posted on Jan, 13 2006 @ 10:56 PM
You want a great resource on this subject, here's the site:

www.zpenergy.com...

They have researched all the hoaxers and any legit applications they already know about and support.

[edit on 1/14/2006 by bodebliss]

posted on Jan, 13 2006 @ 11:51 PM
For anyone representing PMM as free-energy/perpetula motion machines: Please present your math. I am very interested as well are others in seeing this information.

posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 08:51 AM
Has anyone actually managed to see one of Perendev's motors in action?

Mike Brady said he was going to do a live demo at a castle in Africa last year, but nothing came of it
He said the motors were in production, but i've not seen one for sale, OR a price list,
Yet there is a video on his site of one supposedly powering up and then powering down, but there is a glitch in the video feed as it powers down
I notice he's also advertising a new "Super power" magnetic motor "coming soon"?
I did get confirmation from "EADS Corporate Technical Office" that perendev did contract them to make the nitrogen motor he's advertising on his site.

The replier said

"As it turns out, the claims made by Perendev are exaggerated. The
workshop at EADS Space Transportation has built a nitrogen motor for
Perendev on a contractual basis according to the drawings supplied by
Perendev. This is simply a way to use resources and know-how to generate
some extra revenue. There is nothing more to it.

My contact did not mention the magnetic motor."

posted on Jan, 25 2006 @ 12:15 PM
Ok for all you nay sayers u actually have something to stand on with perendev, since they cant actually get it to work, as this new clip from american antigravity shows.

Perendev Video

posted on Jan, 26 2006 @ 03:43 AM
So why aren't we seeing mass production of this device.

You'd think there would be allot of money in that.

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