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Tax Exempt Status For Churches

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posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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Canada, like the US, gives churches tax exempt status on any and all donations made to the church as long as the church doesn't use the pulpit as a political avenue.

However, a group in Canada is working to change that. According to the Ottawa Citizen, gay activists are working to take away tax exempt status from churches who will not perform gay marriages.


"We have no problem with the Catholic Church or any other faith group promoting bigotry," said Kevin Bourassa, a gay marriage proponent. "We have a problem with the Canadian government funding that bigotry."


The irony of that statement is that it is directly contradictory to freedom of religion. The Catholic church and other faith groups "promoting bigotry" by not violating their faith and performing gay marriages, are being prejudiced against gays. However, gays are being prejudiced against Christianity due to its believe that homosexuality is wrong.

It'll be interesting to see, if this passes, how it impacts the US. Right now several religious groups are permitted to break the law of the land because of dream trances and the like using controlled substances. Will the US, if Canada forces churches to perform gay marriages, follow suit, and if it does, will those other groups be able to side-step the new law of the land?




posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 11:08 AM
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I wouldn't expect to force churches to marry gays. They probably don't either though. They just want to get Churches off the public dole.

I'd say they have it pretty good in Canada all things considered:


Under current rules, donations to religious groups are tax-privileged as long as the church refrains from partisan political activity.

"They can't connect their views with any political candidate," said Peter Broder, the director of regulatory affairs at Imagine Canada, an umbrella organization for charities and non-profit groups.


That's more than adequate. Wish we had that in America.



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by RANT
I wouldn't expect to force churches to marry gays. They probably don't either though. They just want to get Churches off the public dole.

I'd say they have it pretty good in Canada all things considered:


Under current rules, donations to religious groups are tax-privileged as long as the church refrains from partisan political activity.

"They can't connect their views with any political candidate," said Peter Broder, the director of regulatory affairs at Imagine Canada, an umbrella organization for charities and non-profit groups.


That's more than adequate. Wish we had that in America.


We do. Hence my wondering what this proposal, if it gets off the ground, will do to the US. There are some ministries in the US which do not have tax exempt status because they are political players. For the most part, at a church, if they want to keep their tax exempt status, they cannot publically endorse any candidate or use a party's talking points. They can, however, talk of ideals and moral descisions based on religios works, but not political leanings.

As an example, the church John Kerry spoke at during the election was, at least a month ago, in a fight to maintain its tax exempt status, and it didn't look like it was going to win. However, I haven't followed that case for a long while now, so I'm not sure what happened with it.



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by junglejake
We do.


If only it were enforced.


As an example, the church John Kerry spoke at during the election was, at least a month ago, in a fight to maintain its tax exempt status, and it didn't look like it was going to win. However, I haven't followed that case for a long while now, so I'm not sure what happened with it.


You've got to love it!
Some church Kerry speaks at is under attack for it's tax exempt status, but Franklin Graham, Zell Miller, Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, Bob McEwen, Pastor Lawrence White, Pastor Rod Parsley, Ambassador Alan Keyes, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, Chuck Colson, Pat Robertson and Tony Perkins are training Patriot Pastors for the right!


I hope the "religious" right wins it's "anti-Christian attack" (to use their favorite slur) on that left leaning Church. I really, really do.


The precedent will be a God send.



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 02:56 PM
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Yeah, a church Kerry spoke at is under fire by the IRS. Another church where the pastor sent out a letter to members telling them that if they're pro-choice they're not invited to take part in communion is under fire by the IRS, as well. Another church lost its tax exempt status for publishing an ad calling for the defeat of Bill Clinton in 1996. In 1999 the Christian Coalition lost its tax exempt status for publishing a voter guide (took 10 years for the case to be decided).

Those are just to name a few. I couldn't find information on the church Bush spoke at during the campaign because I don't recall the name of it. The IRS has a long list of investigations going on or about to go on, and they do not seem partisan. They're going after a church where Gore spoke, another one talking about reclaiming America for Christ, and many others on all sides of the political spectrum. This issue isn't black and white.



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 09:28 PM
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This is ridiculous. If a church doesn't want to perform same-sex marriages, they shouldn't have to. There are plenty of other churches that will. Heck, the largest protestant church in Canada, the United Church, supports same-sex marriage and ordains gay people.

I have no problem with same-sex marriage, but this is going overboard. It's called freedom of religion, and it's not just for people we agree with. Sheesh. If we'll let Mormons run around BC marrying multiple teenage girls, I don't see why the Catholic church has to perform gay marriages.


If this can happen in Canada, I don't think they have much to complain about:



The Canadian military has marked its first same-sex wedding, two years after the Defence Department issued guidelines on the contentious issue and more than a decade after gays were allowed to join the Forces.

Two servicemen, who do not want to be identified, exchanged vows May 3 at the chapel at Canadian Forces Base Greenwood, N.S., in front of 45 friends and a United Church minister. Lt.-Cmdr. David Greenwood, the base's head chaplain, helped arrange the ceremony but couldn't preside over it since he is an Anglican.

He said the fact the couple decided to hold their wedding at the military chapel might encourage others to step forward and make their vows official in a setting that not long ago had a policy of excluding them.

Cdn military marks first gay marriage


It seems rather immature to force someone to compromise their beliefs on this issue, when there are so many other options open to them. Go after marriage commissioners if you want headlines. They can be fired for refusing to perform them. Why would you want to get married somewhere you weren't wanted anyways?

[edit on 14-6-2005 by Duzey]



posted on Jun, 16 2005 @ 10:56 AM
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No group should be able to force a church to change its bylaws b/c of percieved discrimination. If they don't like how the church operates, they need to move along and find a new "church" that fits with their agenda/beliefs.

One thing I dislike about the liberal agenda (in church) is they want God to move toward the individual. They have it backassards, in my opinion. It is we humans who should make an effort to move toward conformity with God's will.



posted on Jun, 17 2005 @ 08:54 PM
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I don't think any group will be able to force anything on ANYBODY!!! They can try, but it wont do much!



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by CHICKST3R
I don't think any group will be able to force anything on ANYBODY!!! They can try, but it wont do much!


Well, when it comes to TAXES that point may be debatable.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 02:36 PM
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Break the law using dream trances and the like? May I ask what that is about? The churches (well at least some) give sermons on what is in the bible and the fact that most won't perform gay marriages stays in line with what they believe. Many churches will also not marry people who have been divorced but you don't see them organizing. The whole issue of gay marriages at this point is really in the hands of the law makers. If you can get a state to approve/recoginize it than form your own church and I am sure you will get your tax break.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 02:39 PM
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I don't think any group should have the right to come in and demand a church change its rules for them. Ya know? If the church is breaking tax exempt laws that's different. Like that yahoo 27 yr-old
preacher here in NC who told parishoners (who have been members longer than he was alive
) they had to leave if they didn't support Bush in the '04 election. IDIOT. Guess who's gone now?



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 02:59 PM
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A preacher actually did that? Too funny. I guess my overall thought is if you don't like a church, a religion etc, then don't go, don't particpate. Seems simple enough to me. The fight for gays is really with law and that is where they should focus their efforts. I am sure there are plenty of christian gay churches that can support them.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by Memorialday1999
A preacher actually did that? Too funny. I guess my overall thought is if you don't like a church, a religion etc, then don't go, don't particpate. Seems simple enough to me. The fight for gays is really with law and that is where they should focus their efforts. I am sure there are plenty of christian gay churches that can support them.


Yes. He actually did that. And rightly became a national laughingstock. As a Christian - a freaky Suthun Baptist - I was offended by his idiocy.

And for the record, I could never stand it when Clinton would go preachin to churches, either.


I agree with you 100%

My own personal problem with gay marriage is thus: Just because man makes a law, it will never change GOD's law. As far as civil unions go.. cool whatever. There are valid reasons.

Imagine being gay and being with your companion for 20 sumthing years. You share a bank account, maybe even a kid or two, or a much-loved pet. Your companion dies and their family hates gays. They step in and shut you out completely. That is wrong! At least if they have a civil union, that can't happen.

At this point in my life, I say let God be the judge of people. He knows I've done things other people wouldn't approve of. I don't want them pointing their equally crooked fingers at me. It is Him I bow to.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 05:20 PM
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One problem ECK is not god's will what church is promoting but "bias will" branded with "god's will" and that is the problem with the church.


God make no rules, god do not justice, but the law and rules of man.

We all know how much involvement churches has in our politics or have anybody for gotten "Freak" I mean Frist and "justice sunday"?


How about Tom Delay and his "crazy fundamentalist groups"



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
One problem ECK is not god's will what church is promoting but "bias will" branded with "god's will" and that is the problem with the church.


God make no rules, god do not justice, but the law and rules of man.

We all know how much involvement churches has in our politics or have anybody for gotten "Freak" I mean Frist and "justice sunday"?


How about Tom Delay and his "crazy fundamentalist groups"


I love this woman!


But Marg.. no one is forcing anyone to go to church. What right does an outside group have to come into a church body and demand that church change its bylaws for that outside group? That's wrong. If you don't like what the church is preachin, then walk on by and find one you like. There are churches out there that will tell parishoners exactly what they wanna hear. To me, that ain't church. Going to church should be about learning how to be more God-like, should it not? We all got the human part down pat.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 05:38 PM
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He,he, ECK see the problem is not about the rights of people those are backed by our "constitution" [I think we still have one]


Is when the church gets involve in everybody's affairs even if you go to church or not.

When politics are mix with religion laws are made to affect everybody regardless of what you like or not.

I am glad that our government has not gone that far yet, but they are working on it.



posted on Jun, 18 2005 @ 06:42 PM
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Many of those "groups" are extreme groups and really do not make up mainstream christians. Trust me, if I thought I had enough pull to tell the President what to do, I would. It is a small elite that hide behind the church to attend to their own agenda and try and govern politics with religion. To label and catagorize all into being bias is not actually factual.



posted on Jun, 25 2005 @ 11:52 PM
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Pffft. Someone should think about taxing the church I used to go to...I got sick of hearing the preacher shill for Bush week after week!

He didn't like it when I told him Bush is evil!


If I hear "Bush is a man of character" one more time....



posted on Jun, 26 2005 @ 01:09 AM
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That movement Memorialday1999 mentioned has a name. They're the Dominionists. I've been reading about them. Their leaders Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family, Dr. D. James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Ministries and others are people I used to listen to. Now they sound down right freakish. I never knew how just how creepy their real views are. One thing stood out in my reading. They have no tolerance for gay people. They actually believe in the death penalty for practicing homosexuals. They're crazy and their hate rhetoric is twisted.

Oh yeah, and they do not believe in the separation of church and state. At all. It's no different than the Taliban in all honesty. No, its the Stepford Taliban.


If you want to listen to a great preacher - a man who's name I have ever run across in any shady way - is Dr. Charles Swindoll (he used to be the head of the Dallas Theological Institute). He now run the Insight for Living ministry. He is an excellent preacher and teacher of history.


[edit on 6/26/05 by EastCoastKid]



posted on Sep, 3 2006 @ 09:48 PM
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I tried the first link in this thread and I got a article not found page.
As long as a church dosnt become invovled in politics or any kind profit making business ventures then I dont have a problem with a church being exempted from tax.
If churchs get taxed where dose the government stop ?

You cant force a church to marry gays it gose against the Christian belief system whether or not Christians are right or wrong isnt the issue here.

Providing the likes of Christians leave me and society alone Im quite happy for them do whatever they do in a church.





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