I dont understand something atheists

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posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 01:32 PM
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Okay riley, let's take your last post step by step shall we?


To be honest.. I've never actually said that previously [search my posts].. I sited it as an example as usually I'd have to give an essay of around twenty thousand words on why it's illogical and couldn't be bothered.. but accept my apologies if you believe our planet is only 6000 years old.. though I do personally believe it's an infantile notion. btw.. how is that trying to convert?.

So what you are saying, is that you have not posted the if someone says the world is only 6000 years old my telling them that that isf*&^ idiotic
I also do not subscribe to0 the young earth theory. How is that trying to convert? Hmm please tell me where I have said that it was. I have said, and which you proved in your posting, that instead of attempting to actually debate or rationalize, it for the nay sayers is easier to make a personal or generalized comment that all are ignorant and or stupid or as you sayed f*&^ idiotic




quote: If someone here or anywhere else, were to say something that you do not agree with, instead of debasing them,
Yet you haven't actually tried to debase anything.


Okay you have me confused a bit on this. Maybe the following definition frfom answers.com will help you out.
de·base (dĭ-bās') pronunciation
tr.v., -based, -bas·ing, -bas·es.

To lower in character, quality, or value; degrade. See synonyms at adulterate, corrupt, degrade.
So your point being?




quote: Yet you haven't actually tried to debase anything. how about attempting to prove them wrong. Prove what wrong? You asked for atheist opinions.. whats to prove?


Again, I believe that you have missed the point of the thread which is why an aethist get's pissed off (author's words) any time religion is mentioned. If an aethiest or agnostic wishes to enter into a discussion that has a religious conectation or tone, instead using rational "conversation" the non-believer goes off the deep end and as I earlier stated will resort to predjudicial (however it is spelt
) comments.




May I remind you that you STARTED this thread with generalisations about atheists on a kneejerk reaction because you probably couldn't convert one and had to vent somewhere. You asked for opinions from atheists.. [basically 'are they just afraid of conversion?'] yet haven't anwered any of the points and I suspect you only dived on this trivial one because it's the only one you could argue without giving away your true opinions on atheists.. which you've already made that quite clear anyway.


Let me dissuade you on a few things here.
1) I did not start the thread I have added to it.
2) My comments have not been either generalized nor done in a kneejerk reaction. There have been numerous threas on ATS the last few months where derogatory and in some cases inflammatory comments have been made by both members as well as Mods / S-Mod's towards those who prfess a belief in any religion.
3) Any opions that I have toward anyone of any group, have been backed, again, let me remind you of your first response to me.
4) Am I attempting to convert anyone? No, Nor has that ever been anything in what I have ever said either here in this thread nor in any other thread. What I have said if you have not seen it yet, is that instead of conversing, those who hold no faith, tend to use inflammatory comments aginst those who do have a professed faith.
You stated that I have already made my opion known about aethist. Is that correct? Well, How would you categorize your own viewpoint? Open-minded, allow others their own beliefs? Look at your earlier posting here sir and your will see that your postings were quite opinonated.


Now to answer your questions 1 by1 since you have said that I have avoided answering them
You could only find a handul of posts that may show atheists are trying to convert christians etc [who will typically use facts to back their views].. but I could find a thousand where atheists are told they are going to burn in hell and should convert. So what qualifies?
I as well can also show you where, both members as well as Mods have gone so far as to deny that freedom of speech should be allowed due to a subject that had even a slight religious slant. If you will notice my mood. It says Me 2 Ignant. Why would I have that? I changed it once a Super Mod made a statement not too long ago that said that all those of faith are either stupid or ignorant. So tell me what qualifies?

Teaching evolution or sex ed?
The instruction of both subjects should occur as education is the only defense against ignorance. I do add though that if and when a question by a student is addressed to the teacher, that deals with either creationism or sex ed or evolution, the teacher should answer the question to the best of their ability, descibe why a question is incorrect, inform the student where they can research the answer. In today's classrooms, such questions are felt to be confrontational by the teachers.
or that adam and eve never existed?
That is like asking which came first the chicken or the egg. Mankind came from something. If you dig back far enough you will eventually find a common source for all. If that is the biblical adam eve, doubtful.
or not teaching that a few million animals were squashed into a tiny boat?
Although there is something to this belief in that it is in civilizations around the world, is it wholy true, again doubtful. But as in many myths, someway, they are found to hold a grain of truth. One day we will find that grain and be able to completely explain where this belief origionated from.
Or not teaching that that women are inferior?
You have never met my wife or you would never say that.
Remember who wrote those words and the society in which he lived. Were women subservient? Yes. This was a perpetuation of that man's beliefs.
That our planet isn't the centre of the universe?
Sorry, do not know the origion of that one, most likely, it is due to mankind's need to be the center of attention. As a fanatic of space, i do not abscribe to that belief.

That it wasn't created in 7 days?
A mis-translation. The origional hebrew word was Yom which can mean bot day, or era. That being the case, the world being create in 7 days or 7 eras (not determinate as to how long the era lasts). Which is more sensible to you?

Also, you might, becareful on one other note, you automatically labled me as a christian even though, I had stayed away from promoting any religion. As far as you knwo I could be a bhuddist monk or even a satanist.




posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 01:36 PM
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please read my edits.. that post changed about an hour ago



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by riley
please read my edits.. that post changed about an hour ago


So, you have edited your earlier posts. And what does that prove? Hvae you taken the time to read my last one?
Are you conceding the fact that instead of using rational thought that the last few months, the common (kneejerk) reaction of no-believers is to label those of faith as being stupid and ignorant?
One might believe that since you have attempted to 'clarify" your postings.



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by kenshiro2012
So, you have edited your earlier posts. And what does that prove?

It's not suppose to prove anything- it explains why I thought you were a christian as I had you confused with the author so it wasn't based on biggotry.. unfortuantly it changed the entire context of how I was reading your posts [and how you are now writing them] which has kind of derailed the whole conversation.
Your above post.. I actually agree with most of what you said [aside from the mix up]. Generally I accept other beliefs though I find people trying to force them into public school systems and science world worrying. I also don't make moral judgement on people just because they may be christian/ moslem etc.. however some consider it their 'duty' to save my soul [and anyone who has a different lifestyle] which is much more intrusive personally than suggesting they get educated.. [which is really NA because many christians believe in ID anyway] and yes I know thats not how I said it- and I apologised for it.. so why does it need to be brought up yet again? Now I admit I am very opinionated about those kind of things and that there is prejudice on both sides.. yet rarely have I had a christian here apologise for calling me evil/immoral.. or for eg. calling other people devil worshipers for being pagen [or whatever creed they don't approve of] ..which makes pulling out the 'persecuted christian' card a bit ridiculous.



posted on Jun, 13 2005 @ 11:43 PM
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.
JordanW345,

My problem is with the usually associated psychosis that goes with a belief in God. Many believers of whatever religion seem to think it exempts them from all responsibility as a human being towards other human beings.

We are alone.

Lost in Time and Space.

All we have is one another.

Religion should never be an excuse to treat a fellow human being without regard.

God is not the problem. Losing your humanity is.

People treat one another like dirt regularly. Don't excuse it by saying it was drugs or alcohol. Don't excuse it by saying your God wanted it.

It's my Universe and you will be held accountable for your actions. At least once i get my organizing infrastructure in place. ( a little joke )

Seriously, You are answerable to no one, you do however have to live with yourself. If everyone and everything is subordinated to you, you are alone. Do you really want to be totally alone? Forever?

Life should be for non-malicious fun. Otherwise known as joy.

The only fun of Religions is purely malicious.
Otherwise Religions are just malicious and no fun.

[edit on 13-6-2005 by slank]



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 07:03 AM
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Riley,



Now I admit I am very opinionated about those kind of things and that there is prejudice on both sides.. yet rarely have I had a christian here apologise for calling me evil/immoral.. or for eg. calling other people devil worshipers for being pagen


I have never said that of another but the shoe fits on the other foot with this one. I have never had a non-believer apoligize for calling all those who do have a belief stupid or ignorant. I guess that goes with the territory on any subject where feelings and convictions run deep

Slank,




My problem is with the usually associated psychosis that goes with a belief in God. Many believers of whatever religion seem to think it exempts them from all responsibility as a human being towards other human beings.


The psychosis part, instantly predjudizes your post which will instantly color your statements,
I agree with you in 95% of your post. The one problem that I see with it is that you are stating that only those of faith, commit injustices and then hide behind their faith. This is partly incorrect, in that those of faith are not the only ones that commit injustices and then hide behind thier beliefs. It is not something exclusive to those of faith. Their are a number of people on this earth who feel that they are in the right to harm another just because they can or that they are superior to others.
One other thing, Not all religions are the old fashion Fire and Brimestone Southern Baptist that removes any joy from life. Many religions out there actually promote that a person should enjoy life to it's fullest as (God or any other name you wish to put here) has made this world for us.
Edited for spelling darn it

[edit on 14-6-2005 by kenshiro2012]



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Riley,



Now I admit I am very opinionated about those kind of things and that there is prejudice on both sides.. yet rarely have I had a christian here apologise for calling me evil/immoral.. or for eg. calling other people devil worshipers for being pagen


I have never said that of another but the shoe fits on the other foot with this one.

'If the shoe fits..'? What does that mean exactly? I said I can be opinionated.. it either sounds like you've now turned that into a deroritory trait when it is merely a passionate part of my personality, are calling pagens devil worshipers or are respectfully agreeing with me. It's hard to tell.. vague inferences aren't helpful.

I have never had a non-believer apoligize for calling all those who do have a belief stupid or ignorant.

Actually I NEVER CALLED THEM STUPID.. or ignorant.. and I did apologise.

Do not misquote me.

I said the concept of a young earth is idiotic and ignorant. I've corrected people on that a few times now- how many times do I have to say it or are you just trying to make it sound worse than it actually was?

[edit on 14-6-2005 by riley]



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 07:53 AM
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Now now riley,
I have stated a couple of times in the previous posts that the source of such comments as stupid or ignorant were from a s-mod. I in now way was pointintg the finger at you.
As for the shoe fits reference, you have mis-read my statement. In your previous post, your said that you have never had a christian apologize for calling you evil/immoral. What I was attempting to say was that I have never had an apology from the s-mod nor any of the non-believers who have made derogatory statements towards those of faith.
Sorry if you misunderstood.



Do not misquote me.


There was no attempt to misquote you, I believe the problem is that you mis-understood what I was attempting to say.






I said the concept of a young earth is idiotic and ignorant. I've corrected people on that a few times now- how many times do I have to say it or are you just trying to make it worse than it actually was?


I am sorry, where is that from? as from my earlier posts, you can plainly see what my opinion on young earth is. I do want to clarify one thing though, I have not called such ideals as the young earth stupid or idiotic.

Sorry if you did not understand me.



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Now now riley,
I have stated a couple of times in the previous posts that the source of such comments as stupid or ignorant were from a s-mod. I in now way was pointintg the finger at you.
As for the shoe fits reference, you have mis-read my statement. In your previous post, your said that you have never had a christian apologize for calling you evil/immoral. What I was attempting to say was that I have never had an apology from the s-mod nor any of the non-believers who have made derogatory statements towards those of faith.
Sorry if you misunderstood.

I misunderstood as you said you've never heared a non believer [non christian] apologise.. I am a non believer and I have apologised for a statement that you interprited as derogatory so I thought you must have missed it and considered that still an issue.. but now you can say that you have recieved an apology from a non believer!
It's like the fall of the Berlin wall. Really. As for the mods.. well I have no idea what context it was in [or indeed what preceded it] so cannot judge.. [though I am curious?] ..in the interest of cross cultural unity though- as an atheist I shall chastise them for you:


naughty, naughty mod.

The moderators are just as diverse in beliefs as the rest of us- and no doubt non believers have copped what they would consider 'unfair' treatment from them as well.. it would be pretty boring for them if their communication were restricted in a community they are actually a part of.



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 08:42 AM
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Cool we are on the same page

And yes, now I can not say that I have not received an apology from a non-believer

Wish that we all could come to agreements to agree to disagree amicably so easily as you and I have.



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 09:10 AM
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this argument can go both ways!


you have your bible thumping christians say that all atheist are idoits

BUT!

you also have your atheist who call all people involved with religion, (christianity islam and judiasm) idoits.


so quit your damn bitching about this or ill go and tattle!



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by JordanW345
If God "doesnt exist", as you say, why do you get so pissed off every time other people talk about him?


Well, I've always presumed that they all had a religious upbringing, and were all forced to go to Sunday School, and told at every opportunity that God wanted them to be nice little boys. In short they found the word God was always introduced as a barrier to them doing something they wanted to do, or as a technique to get them to do things (which is, of course, a breach of the 3rd commandment).

All the best,

Roger Pearse



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Cool we are on the same page

And yes, now I can not say that I have not received an apology from a non-believer

Wish that we all could come to agreements to agree to disagree amicably so easily as you and I have.

We're the dawn of a new age.





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