Why hasn't SETI found anything yet?

Toasted since you referenced me specifically I am going to respond a bit. But we are supposed to be talking about SETI and none of this stuff has anything to do with that.

In regards to those articles in your last couple of posts, I reviewed them. And I do not say this with malice, and really with all due respect, but if you call any of them convincing then I can only say that your religious beliefs, which I do respect, have caused you to misjudge them rather badly.

To even begin to deal with the ideas presented would take paragraphs and more, issue after question just leaped out at me as I read them.

If you really want to talk about this stuff, start a thread on it and I will show up. But think about it, you know you will not like what I have to say, and if I actually convince you of something, what happens then?


A.T
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I hate to be a pain but in fact SETI has found somthing, as one poster mentioned (and as all the other's glossed over) SETI recieved a signal in 1977 now known as the Wow noise:

An anomalous, narrow-band burst of radio noise picked up on August 15, 1977, during SETI observations by the Big Ear of the Ohio State University Radio Observatory. The signal, which lasted 37 seconds and came from the direction of Sagittarius, attracted the attention of Ohio State astronomer Jerry Ehman, who scrawled "Wow!" in the margin of the print-out.

Granted, this is not deffinitive proof of anyting at all, but with a topic such as this how do we decide what is evidenciary and what is not? The Wow Noise was was a deffinitivly anomalous transmission, the only sound heard in all those years of silence. The Wow noise does raise a question though, what exactly are we listening for? How will we know when we've heard it. I find it hard to believe that so many scientists would expect to recieve the whole first season of Glorp: Ace Human Hunter.

I find the Wow Noise to be of unending wonder, never before and never again have we heard somthing equal, it was only 37 seconds, and we'll never figure out what it was.

The qoute is taken from The Encyclopedia of Astrobiology, Astornomy and Spaceflight but a quick googling will find all the info you could want

Hi there. SETI is Nonsense. Just a scapegoat for US Gov extraterestrial affairs. ALL NONSENSE.

Their looking at the stars and not seeing what's in front of them in the air Just above Sea level.

Bull# to SETI and all the wasted money being spent on that out of dimesion project year after year after year.

Peed Off

Dallas

And another thing.. Their waisting tax dollars on the SETI project just to make it llok like their checking out the distant UFO problem. THEIR here already and right in front of our faces.

But the Fed Gov must try every measure to diswade the people that what you see and read is a ''dreamland'' ''fairytale''.

Dallas

I've read most of the posts in this thread but I still haven't seen anyone mention one of the most logical explainations as to why SETI never picks up any signals. The explaination that everyone, including most scientists, often miss.

I'll just let Wikipedia explain it:

"It has also been proposed that a fundamental information theoretical axiom might be behind the lack of recognized signals. Information theory states that a message that is compressed maximally is indistinguishable from white noise. However, the radio telescope SETI searches to date all assume the simplest form of radio beacon, which is a pure sine wave with no modulation, other than that due to relative motion, presumably explicitly intended as a beacon signal, of a very primitive communication medium. This search would completely miss very intense highly compressed broadcasts spread across the spectrum. "
" radio telescopes may simply not be facing in the direction from which signals are arriving, or listening on the appropriate frequencies, or using the appropriate demodulation."

In other words, we're not looking in the correct way. We could be surrounded by extraterrestrial messages and we wouldn't even know it. The chances of us finding a more primitive communication (the kind we're looking for) are not very good considering that they don't carry over a distance as well as compressed frequences.

Just think about it, compressed messages are indistinguishable from white noise...

Link: en.wikipedia.org...-_but_most_people_have_yet_to_see_them

Originally posted by Wirral Bagpuss
Hmm what about the WOW signal back in 1976? That has never been fully explained to this day.

I think this is the best candidate yet for a ET saying hello !

There was a brief discussion on the WOW signal just last week on TV. The signal lasted 72 seconds. Analysis showed it had a probability of less than 0.02% of being a natural random noise, or if you prefer 99.98% probability it was intelligent in origin. Despite intentional listening to that specific coordinate in space for several months afterwards the signal was never repeated and remains to this day a mystery.

Originally posted by Flinx

"It has also been proposed that a fundamental information theoretical axiom might be behind the lack of recognized signals. Information theory states that a message that is compressed maximally is indistinguishable from white noise. However, the radio telescope SETI searches to date all assume the simplest form of radio beacon, which is a pure sine wave with no modulation, other than that due to relative motion, presumably explicitly intended as a beacon signal, of a very primitive communication medium. This search would completely miss very intense highly compressed broadcasts spread across the spectrum. "
" radio telescopes may simply not be facing in the direction from which signals are arriving, or listening on the appropriate frequencies, or using the appropriate demodulation."

In other words, we're not looking in the correct way. We could be surrounded by extraterrestrial messages and we wouldn't even know it. The chances of us finding a more primitive communication (the kind we're looking for) are not very good considering that they don't carry over a distance as well as compressed frequences.

Just think about it, compressed messages are indistinguishable from white noise...

We are listening in a way that assumes someone is intentionally trying to send us a signal. It is logical to assume the communication would be in the simplest form so any recipient with the most rudimentary electronic communication technology could decipher.

If someone was trying to hide a message so it would not be intercepted there are many ways to keep it hidden.

Originally posted by smallpeeps


Actually, I think the larger question is this: Since we can agree that Earth is full of resources and is basically a gleaming jewel floating in space, how likely is it that ET has not sought us out and found us already? I say that's more likely since Earth has been here for at least 4 billion years.

I would imagine that a planet with a native, easily hypnotizable population would be a resource even greater than gold or 'unobtainium' or whatever other resource a species might desire. Slavery was outlawed on Earth not due to moral reasons but mainly because it didn't make financial sense after the industrial age. Slavery works, however, if you are A: way advanced from those you enslave, B: guide their evolution, and C: know how to hide well.

I'm not saying they're here already, but I think planets like Earth would be sought out by those alien civilizations. I mean, if you were flying around in space, observing gas giants and barren planets like Mars, wouldn't you see Earth as a hugely more valuable resource? Assuming ET isn't interested in us or hasn't found us yet is like assuming that an unlocked Corvette with the keys in it in would remain unstolen. In 4 billion years, it is illogical to assume aliens have never visited Earth, IMO.


[edit on 12-6-2005 by smallpeeps]

On the other hand, say you are right and they visited us, they may have found it similar to me or you finding a colony of ants on a walk in the woods! ie mildy entertaining for a few minutes as you observe their goings on, then bored and move on never to bother looking at them again. Doubt anything here is a 'resource' or even remotely interesting to them if theyve mastered faster than light travel.

"aw look at the little humans, building houses and everything bless em, right... are we off then cos i told the missus id be in by 10"

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that there is a forum here at ATS called SETI@home Discussion. You can read about similar topics there.

Several members are participating, but I haven't been able to renew because I used my email address at work. Maybe I'll set it up anyway, and see if the network nazi's will let me run it.

It may be a futile effort, but we will never know if we don't look.

On the other hand, say you are right and they visited us, they may have found it similar to me or you finding a colony of ants on a walk in the woods! ie mildy entertaining for a few minutes as you observe their goings on, then bored and move on never to bother looking at them again.

Yeah, you could be right, but then, we could always strap a couple dozen nukes and send them out into space. That'd teach ET to get all snobby on us.

Seriously tho', did you ever read "Sirens of Titan" by Vonnegut? I won't say anything, but it's one of the funnier plots regarding why humans might be useful to aliens, if at all. Like I said, an easily hypnotizable population on a planet could be useful. Even if ET has FTL travel, I think biological organisms and nitrogen/oxygen based atmospheres are probably somewhat rare, right?

Or, let's say there's one ET who's got his own cosmic FTL chariot. Couldn't he then land and become "Jehovah" or any other type of god on a planet full of dopes? Everyone likes to be worshipped. I'm not sure Earth amounts to an "ant hill". ...or does it?

Originally posted by Astronomer68

eheheh, man you got my way above vote for your post.
That is so funny.

To simply answer the threads topic I'd post the image that shows how far radio/tv transmissions have travelled and how much SETI has searched. The amount is so tiny, like a single grain of sand in a desert. Unfortunately I dont have that picture on the hd so if anyone has it please post.

SETI is looking, that is something all on it's own.

Should it be looking a lot more ways, of course. Is it looking the best way, probably not. Do the people with secrets think SETI will ever succeed, almost certainly not. Would a real solid discovery make it to the public, maybe.

But SETI represents something else, us, right here. There are enough of us that want to be looking that something like SETI was created in response. No matter what you think the chances SETI will succeed at least we forced them to open one official eye.

Now if things go as they should, SETI will gain more and more ways to look around.


A.T
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