Homosexuality Nature V.S. Nurture

I read quite a few times that people who have Synesthesia ( a blending of the senses) have a greater chance of being bisexual. I have Synesthesia
and am hetro however I am not at all offended by bi sexuality or homosexuality. In fact I see it as another kind of normal. I make this statement because I see things this way from nature not nurture.
I honestly can't be made to see it as wrong. As for religion, I believe in God
however I belong to no man made clubs with labels.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Personally, I believe being gay is not a choice, but how one is born (genes). From a religious standpoint, I think the sin factor kicks in at whether or not you choose to commit the act of intimacy, whatever that may be.

As a Christian, I think its fascinating that Jesus never mentioned it. He was far more preoccupied with the travesties of hypocrisy.

So then you're saying that God gives the option of intimacy to every human but if a homosexual commits this "sin" which is completely natural to them, then they are violating God's law?

this is a super thread -- and I love that so far it hasn't sunk to yelling and insults which seems to happen with this type of thread so many times.

Kidfinger -- that was a super post and thank you so much for taking the time to condense it from the original 14 pages although I am sure all 14 pages were as informative. Hope you got a super grade for it. And I wish I had a way above vote for you for it but it seemed that a lot of folks have posted good things this month. So here is my only way to way above you

Byrd as usual your posts are ones I look forward to and learn from also -- thank you too.

I have some friends who are straight who you might swear are gay -- and I have friends who are gay and not even the most homophobic person going would guess. Personally it doesn't make any difference to me either way. All that is important is that we are friends -- what they do in their private lives has no bearing on how I feel about them at all. I don't ask any of my friends what they do in their bedrooms -- do you?

Originally posted by justme1640
this is a super thread -- and I love that so far it hasn't sunk to yelling and insults

which seems to happen with this type of thread so many times.

Definitely. I feel like I have truly learned something thus far, and it has been in the spirit of sharing viewpoints, and information v.s. negativity. Pretty exciting.

-P

Have you ever heard of Lots or Luts and his people ?

Originally posted by eazy_mas
Have you ever heard of Lots or Luts and his people ?

No have never heard of them -- could you let us know what they have to say. And if you agree with them or not. Thanks

Lot's or Lut's people is mention in the Quran and i think in the Torah.

The where the first homosexual , as they where making sex with other man instead of women so God told Lot/Lut and the belivers to go out.

Lut's people were send a powerful punishment the whole land went upsidedown as well a scream from an angle non survived.

This place I think it in Yeman

Nature or Nurture?

Well it depends on who you ask. If you ask a psychologist they will more than likely state that homosexuality is not a choice rather it emerges for most people in early adolescence with no prior sexual experience. If you ask a social theorist they will argue that an individuals upbringing can directly influence their sexual orientation. Truth be told there is evidence to support both theories.

I could hash it all out but this link spells it out pretty well

allpsych.com...

Simon LeVay conducted another experiment regarding the hypothalamus of the human brain in 1991. LeVay, like Swaab and Allen also did a post-mortem examination on human brains; however, he did his examinations on patients who had died from AIDS-related illnesses. He examined 19 declared homosexual man, with a mean age of 38.2, 16 presumed heterosexual men, with a mean age of 42.8, and 6 presumed heterosexual women, with a mean age of 41.2 [3]. LeVay discovered that within the hypothalamus, the third interstitial notch of the anterior hypothalamus (INAH3) was two to three times smaller in homosexual men then in heterosexual men. The women examined also exhibited this phenomenon. LeVay concluded the "homosexual and heterosexual men differ in the central neuronal mechanisms that control sexual behavior", and like Allen and Swaab, agreed that this difference in anatomy was no product of upbringing or environment, but rather prenatal cerebral development and structural differentiation [2]. ….

…. The social argument for homosexuality dates back to the ancient Greeks. Aristophanes, in his Symposium investigates homosexuality, although not termed as such, as a desire by men to share a long-term fulfillment of the soul. He believed that two souls are longing to be together, and the sexual desire alone is not strong enough to create homosexuality, but that the cultural environment allows or forbids the relationship to occur [10]. In Greece is it well known that many men engaged in same-sex relationships, however, these were not equal relationships, they were older men to young boys going through the transition to adulthood. Two instances where the culture is a causative agent of homosexual expression are in New Guinea and Crete. In some tribes in New Guinea, young boys ages 8-15 are inseminated daily by the young male warriors of the tribe. In Crete, every adolescent boy undertook a homosexual relationship as a rite of passage into manhood [10]. In these two instances, the homosexuality is accepted; however, it can be argued that it is also forced, not a natural expression.

Most psychoanalytic theories, however, stress the role of parental and family dynamics, not the society as a whole. Behaviorists believe that some sexual and gender identification differences result from roles imposed by family and friends upon children, such as the masculine and the feminine stereotypes. Problems with this are there is no evidence, social or biological, to support that homosexual children were raised differently than were the heterosexual children. Also, with reinforcement of gender identification norms, one would be led to logically deduce that all of the stereotype reinforcement would ensure a heterosexual outcome [7].

Different factors could be involved. But it's certainly not a gene. And it is changeable. People who say a person can't change either need to change their views, or get out of the profession of helping people. Telling someone they can't change is suppressive.

You've heard of something like rags to riches, proof right there that people can change.

Troy

Those people hide behind the true saying homosexaulity is inborn becasue you could choose who to love thats the difference between us and animals we have the ability live for the better or worse . we have chocies to make every single day of our livies some are hard and some are easy but its a chocie we make.

Example 1

You could choose to take drugs and life of alcholism by going to bars and making frined that are acholic as well you could choose to have a healthy lifestyle like going to gym and taking martial arts class .

In the End it all up to you you have a choose if you go with people who are always saying that its okay to homosexaul than the idea sticks to your head .

Originally posted by cybertroy
Different factors could be involved. But it's certainly not a gene. And it is changeable. People who say a person can't change either need to change their views, or get out of the profession of helping people. Telling someone they can't change is suppressive.

You've heard of something like rags to riches, proof right there that people can change.

Troy

Troy, surely it's impossible to say with any certainty whether there's a gene responsible or not?

Unless you have any evidence to support either theory?

The analogy you've used is limiting. It's too easy to say "people can always change" - sometimes, people simply cannot change certain things. A schizophrenic can adapt to a society, and control his symptoms - but he can never change the fact that he has schizophrenia.

Similarly, I can't change the fact that I have brown eyes. Sure, I can disguise the fact, but I can't change it. Until we find evidence that homosexuality either is, or is not, genetically based, we can't claim outright that people can change their preferences in that manner.

I have a "Bi-sexual" 17 year old daughter who ONLY likes "Butchie" looking girls. Not pretty ones, but the ones that at first glance look like biker dudes. I TOTALLY get why she is this way- completely. I am not going to get into it unless anyone is interested...

Back to the point, through my experience with gay friends, lesbians, psychology etc... It's clear to me that there is NO ABSOLUTES to the issue. I liken the situation to "when we are born, we are containers that are half full of the "nature side of things" ie. Genetics, chemical balances etc.. The empty half of the container is the "nurture" side of us that is waiting to be filled with the results our environment/experience has on our "Nature" side.

In a nutshell, there are too many "exceptions to the rule" one way or the other. Why is so hard to accept it's a combination of both?

And to those of you who follow the teachings of Jesus-- if this was such an IMPORTANT issue in the eyes of GOD, why wasn't Jesus going around condemning people for this? Why wasn't it a priority? Why?- because he preached compassion to ALL MANKIND- I suggest you do the same.


Peace

Gay is mental.
Schizo is mental.

These things can be changed. To say it can't be changed is just not true. Gay is not some kind of permanent bodily injury, like a man with a sawed off arm, that he will not likely grow back like a starfish. It's not the same thing. Don't confuse a permanent body injury or condition with what goes on in the mind. We decide our fates. Men can decide whether or not the weenie goes into the chocolate factory. Enough said.

Troy

Even if homosexaulitiy is genetic its not a couple of millions .

You dont find people with genetic disabilities or genetic disconfigrution 1 in every 2 mybe its 1 in every 100 million.

Human are unqie than other species because humans have the ability to choose and to live the way they want. In every chocie there is consuqunce , example you you steal you will go to jail nobody force to choose the life of thief .

Maybe people just see something in themself and is told by the media if you this this this that your gay. Inreality thats all in your head because if you cant trust yourself as being what you are and what had God created for you wouldnt be doing this you should accpect what GOD created in this form of gender .

Gay on the health side :

Being is a gay where sex is invovle in anyform. Anal sex or other type is a too degrading even a women wouldnt wanna do it so why do it. Its disgusting because i would like to do anything with that place that place isnt desgin to do that stuff so it could cause many diseasies invovling there. Biggest prove AIDS first appeared in gays

Originally posted by cybertroy
Gay is mental.
Schizo is mental.

These things can be changed. To say it can't be changed is just not true. Gay is not some kind of permanent bodily injury, like a man with a sawed off arm, that he will not likely grow back like a starfish. It's not the same thing. Don't confuse a permanent body injury or condition with what goes on in the mind. We decide our fates. Men can decide whether or not the weenie goes into the chocolate factory. Enough said.

Troy

Interesting that your analogy puts homosexuality into the same category as a bodily injury. Do you realise that you've said there, that if it's an injury, then it obviously "can't be helped"? Thus, it's no longer a choice? We can't exactly choose to regrow an amputated limb - to paraphrase your your own words.

But you're yet to provide any proof of your statements, regarding the "mental" angle.

Maybe people just see something in themself and is told by the media if you this this this that your gay. Inreality thats all in your head because if you cant trust yourself as being what you are and what had God created for you wouldnt be doing this you should accpect what GOD created in this form of gender .

Maybe you just believe something you've been told, in the religious aspect? Using God/religion as a basis for an argument like this isn't proof of anything other than belief. And belief is fine! It just doesn't do anything to support a point of view here.

You'd be interested to learn that many, many women not only try anal sex, but enjoy it and continue partaking, even within what you'd term a normal marriage.

Even if homosexaulitiy is genetic its not a couple of millions .

You dont find people with genetic disabilities or genetic disconfigrution 1 in every 2 mybe its 1 in every 100 million.

With all due all respect, mas, you've shown here a complete lack of understanding of human genetics.

To simply things greatly - "any time a couple become pregnant, there is a chance that their baby will have a birth defect. As mentioned above, this chance is three to four out of 100, or 3 to 4 percent" - obviously this completely negates your earlier statement.

Down Syndrome, for example, occurs in 1 out of every 800 or so live births.

With sickle cell anaemia, approximately one out of every 500 African Americans will be born with the trait.

Would you mind terribly restating your argument, taking into account the more accurate information about genetics?

(edit for linkage fixage)

[edit on 17-6-2005 by Tinkleflower]

...so long as its consensual and doesn't include animals or children...then who you're banging ain't none of my business and I don't believe it anyone elses either...

Originally posted by alien
...so long as its consensual and doesn't include animals or children...then who you're banging ain't none of my business and I don't believe it anyone elses either...

Hey, what's wrong with animals? Just kidding.

I don't care if people screw animals, as long as it aint my pets.

People try to make excuse for being gay.

Give me a proof of gay genetics and stuff and proven .

Every guy have a little bit of female hormon and every female have male hormon. but human could control there thinking and emotion .


The biggest prove that God created everything for a reason . If God wanted us to be one gender or even asexual he could but God created male and female to grace the earth.

Sex is not for fun . Most people forget the main reason for sex is for reproduce and there is no use to reproduce with the same gender.

As for and issue of anal sex there are many causes where people are hurt and stuck there stuff there , in some cause you could have some tighten and you could die . That part is only desgin to use for one thing and its not for that stuff .

Originally posted by eazy_mas

Give me a proof of gay genetics and stuff and proven .

I wasn't trying to prove that there's a gene for being gay. I was rather helping you understand how genetics do work - in other words, it's not how you thought. That's all

Sex is not for fun . Most people forget the main reason for sex is for reproduce and there is no use to reproduce with the same gender.

So what about those of us who cannot reproduce for whatever reason? Should we simply not have sex at all, ever?

As for and issue of anal sex there are many causes where people are hurt and stuck there stuff there , in some cause you could have some tighten and you could die . That part is only desgin to use for one thing and its not for that stuff .

You can also die from heterosexual sex (the fastest growing group of new AIDS cases is heterosexual women - just an example). You can die whilst driving a car in the rain. You can die from many things - and you can do these same things and remain safe, too. It's not just about what you're doing - it's also about how sensible, and how safe, you are while you're doing it. Again, I'm just trying to point out "other possibilities" and "other causes" of the things you're using as "reasons why gay is wrong/bad".