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US denies French fighters emergency landing rights in a critical situation

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posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by Imperium Americana
Maybe if Stealth Spy would look at a map once in a while the answer to why the flight was directed to the Atlantic City International Airport would become immediately obvious. (Namely that McGuire is NOT in southern NJ)

The flight was coming from off of the NJ coast line. Where off the NJ coast? Now since we know their carrier was in Norfolk, VA in or around that time it is safe to assume that they would have been approaching NJ from the South East. If you will turn your attention to link #1 & 2 you will see that McGuire AFB is near Trenton, NJ. If the French fighters were in such danger why would they want to fly half way across NJ to land? The closest airport was not McGuire but Atlantic City International Airport!

My guess they called on a freq. that they knew would get an answer. Requested permission to land, because they did not have any better grasp of NJ than Stealth Spy has, and informed McGuire of their situation. The controller did what IS standard procedure and got clearance for them to land at a CLOSER airport.

Period. End of Story. In fact this is a Non-Story! The good old USAF was looking out for the aircrew and their aircrafts.

McGuire AFB/FT. Dix Location:

1. Google map image of McGuire/FT.Dix location: maps.google.com...,-74.906159&sll=39.976562,-74.906159&spn=1.781250,4.556134&sspn=1.781250,4.556134&hl=en


2. Global Security Info on McGuire AFB:
www.globalsecurity.org...

Google map image of Atlantic City International Airport: maps.google.com...,-74.565715&spn=0.111328,0.284758&hl=en







BTW Stealth Spy: Great source for your article. *sarcasm*





And here I got excited that we were not allowing the backstabing French D-bags on our military bases...




posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 05:04 PM
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Yeah I'm sure those french soldiers in afghanistan fighting alongisde british and american troops are really "backstabbing" america.



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 05:57 PM
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Part of the reason they couldn't land was because McGuire had an air show going on that weekend as well with planes out all of the air field. How do I know this, I live 10 mile from the base as well as my best friend is in the Air Force and was on base when this occured. Protocol was followed and they were directed to land at an air strip that was closer to their situation. Why is everything always some kind of political plot????



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 06:39 PM
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And here I got excited that we were not allowing the backstabing French D-bags on our military bases...


I know what you mean, we actually treated them better than I had thought.



posted on Jun, 14 2005 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by cw034
Part of the reason they couldn't land was because McGuire had an air show going on that weekend as well with planes out all of the air field. How do I know this, I live 10 mile from the base as well as my best friend is in the Air Force and was on base when this occurred. Protocol was followed and they were directed to land at an air strip that was closer to their situation. Why is everything always some kind of political plot????


Great find and I confirmed by wandering over tot he airshows.org site. Flightline was probably shut down for day or only taking incoming performers. May have had acro box live over flight line at that time as well unless weather was really stinky (there would be a NOTAM somewhere on this but I'm done poking into this one). Conspiracy debunked and ignorance denied....



posted on Jun, 15 2005 @ 10:48 PM
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Another thing to remember is that at the time an aircraft declares a fuel emergency, they have enough fuel to get to a nearby airport, with a reserve for missed approaches and or travelling to an alternate field. When a plane is low on fuel they are approaching that level, so they may have had more fuel than people realize, just when everyone hears the word "emergency" they think that it's about to crash. And it wouldn't matter if it was the Brits, or the French, without a PPR number, unless it WAS a life threatening emergency, and the US airbase was the ONLY field anywhere near the planes, they wouldn't be allowed to land, especially with an airshow going on.



posted on Jun, 21 2005 @ 10:18 PM
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France and the United States signed today an agreement for the "use of Istres Le Tubé 125 Air Base as a transoceanic abort landing site" for the Space Shuttle from the Return to Flight onward.

Through this Agreement, the Space Shuttles assigned to the International Space Station may land at the 125 Air Base of Istres Le Tubé in the event of an emergency. Therefore, the Space Shuttles are authorized to enter and overfly the French airspace. Further, the French authorities will take all the necessary measures to ensure the security of the spacecrafts and their crews.


links :

www.spaceref.com...
www.nasa.gov...


how good of France despite such bad treatment by the US

[edit on 21-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 01:53 AM
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how good of France despite such bad treatment by the US


Stealth Spy you are simply amazing, have you missed this entire thread? What part of there was an air show at McGuire AF base and that AC airport was closer to the fighters did you not understand?



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 02:00 AM
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my apologies...i did'nt bother to read all the posts.


but still....they were short on fuel and the weather was at its worst...i can understand if there was no emergency and he had a full tank of fuel and they were denied landing for a clearence code...but this was pretty serious...what would have the US lost if it had let one of its allie's planes that it was hosting for a co-operative exercise to land at an air base.

My comments were guided by :



...potentially life-threatening--breach of basic air etiquette by the U.S. military..


link




[edit on 22-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 06:13 PM
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With an airshow going on there was no way they COULD have brought them in, especially if there was a flying demonstration going on. It takes time to clear the airspace to let something land depending on what demonstration is going on. Usually the airspace for several miles is closed around it as well. By the time they could have cleared the airspace and reopened it for them they probably would have been on long final into Atlantic City.



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 11:29 PM
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do you have any links claiming that an airshow was on when the french requested landing permission. ??



posted on Jun, 22 2005 @ 11:39 PM
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June 4-5, 2005



You have reached the McGuire AFB Airshow 2005
Salute to Warriors Website


Please be patient while some images
are being preloaded...

Continue Skip Preloading


June 3rd,4th,5th , NJ-1 DMAT will be attending the McGuire AFB Airshow 2005.
I believe it will turnout to be a huge success as well as an excellent opportunity for the team. A few things you may want to keep in mind. This will be the first airshow at McGuire AFB since 9-11-01. Security will be tight. The U.S. NAVY BLUE ANGELS flight demonstration team will be flying the F-18's.

need more?



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 11:00 AM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy
my apologies...i did'nt bother to read all the posts.


but still....they were short on fuel and the weather was at its worst...i can understand if there was no emergency and he had a full tank of fuel and they were denied landing for a clearence code...but this was pretty serious...what would have the US lost if it had let one of its allie's planes that it was hosting for a co-operative exercise to land at an air base.

My comments were guided by :



...potentially life-threatening--breach of basic air etiquette by the U.S. military..


link


Are you freaking kidding me? How in the world can you still poke your head into this thread and continue making stupid post like the ones above. Just admit you were wrong and let this damn thing die. Stealth Spy there is no way you are this damn stupid. Your just trolling now aren’t ya?


[edit on 22-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]



Originally posted by Stealth Spy
do you have any links claiming that an airshow was on when the french requested landing permission. ??


I got a link for ya!

schuon.web.aplus.net...



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
My question still stands, if british harriers where forced in the same situation....would they be allowed to land?


Probably not.

It seems there are alot of people here that have no clues about protocols.

If it had been an American military plane without proper clearance, it wouldnt have been able to land either.

There are many restricted air spaces in the US, and even American civilian planes cannot land at many, in some cases, even in dire emergencies. Try being a craft in distress and flying around Nellis Air Force Base. Good luck there.

It seems Stealth spy is doing his best to agitate and start problems. Typical.

I know for a fact that when i was stationed at Bitburg Air Force base, there was a time when a C-5 needed to make a landing, and was diverted down to Ramstein, 2 hours drive south. I dunno why they werent able to land at our base. Maybe something classified going on?

But I see nothing obscene or out of the ordinary here about these French planes being refused clearance. So what? American planes get diverted quite often. Big friggin deal.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 12:11 PM
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It is apparent that most of the posters here just want to create a hassle over French and American relations and have no knowledge of aviation procedures. When an aircraft, military or civilian, declares an emergency the main thing is to get the aircraft on the ground immediatly. As the maps that were posted show Atlantic City was much closer than McGuire AFB.
No one here has raised the main issue, "How did the French pilots come to have a fuel emergency in the first place?". The bad weather is not a valid reason. Unless the aircraft carrier is operating too far from shore (blue water ops) aircraft operating from aircraft carriers always have a divert field ashore! Was there a divert field? Who was responsible for arranging for a divert field? Do the French have any tanker aircraft on their carriers? I would be curious to know how much fuel each plane loaded at Atlantic City. Was this an emergency or just an inconvience?
I am getting sick and tired of everyone taking pot shots at my country without having a clue about what they are talking about! I will be the first to admit that the US is not perfect, but neither is anybody else. If you have a legitimate issue to raise I would be happy to listen, I might even agree with you. I have been to France, great people! beautiful country!
The French need to learn how to operate their carriers before going out into blue water.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Imperium Americana
I got a link for ya!
schuon.web.aplus.net...


first of all ...what a cheap way to say i quit

and i have my own link for you Link.

and Zaphod....i said i want a LINK




posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy
my apologies...i did'nt bother to read all the posts.


but still....they were short on fuel and the weather was at its worst...i can understand if there was no emergency and he had a full tank of fuel and they were denied landing for a clearence code...but this was pretty serious...what would have the US lost if it had let one of its allie's planes that it was hosting for a co-operative exercise to land at an air base.

My comments were guided by :



...potentially life-threatening--breach of basic air etiquette by the U.S. military..


link




[edit on 22-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]


So should we have put those French pilots lives in greater danger by sending them to a base that was farther away...not to mention one that had hundreds if not thousands of people watching an airshow?


Face it, in your attempt to slander the US, you didn't get the facts right and now you look like an ass.



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 12:44 PM
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The French initially approached the air base assuming that they were going to be given permission. But they were'nt and turned away to Atlantic City, and made to travel farther when they were critically short of fuel.

Its not like they got to atlantic city outright. They went to McG??? Base and were then turned away to atlantic city

and read this


potentially life-threatening--breach of basic air etiquette by the U.S. military..

...from Article


I dont blame you americans for flaming me but this is what an American article has to say.

and i have'nt been provided any real link or source saying there was an air show in progress or people watching it or any such thing.

There is no evidence of an air show and most critically there is no evidence that the "air show" was in progress with people watching blah blah when the French wanted to make an emergency landing in stormy weather when they were short of fuel...and that too when they were hosted by the US for co-operative air exercises.

[edit on 23-6-2005 by Stealth Spy]



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 12:50 PM
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public.mcguire.amc.af.mil...
www.stevesairshow.com...
public.mcguire.amc.af.mil...
www.titan-ii.com...
www.myaviation.net...(WRI)
www.kittyhawkdiv.com...
www.airdays.com...

There's a link for you. Again, want more??

You know how easy it was for me to find all those and a LOT more about it? All I did was go to google and type in "McGuire AFB airshow". How hard was that? I guess people want things spoon fed to them now instead of doing a tiny little bit of actual work.


[edit on 23-6-2005 by Zaphod58]



posted on Jun, 23 2005 @ 01:16 PM
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Now here's the flaw :

The airshow was on June 4-5, 2005 from the official website : public.mcguire.amc.af.mil...

The French requested permission on June 7,2005

and this airshow excuse was not given by the spokeperson who decided to stay mum when questioned.

Interesting, no ?



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